Georgia Evolution Stickers Ordered Removed

[menewa]

A lot of people, including myself, just teach our children and now grandchildren that the gov. lies about a lot of things and that evolution is an impossibility. The so called evidence of evolution that they have found is just the type of animal that was here at that particular time and died out naturally. Humans came about when God decided to make us. After all, a large percentage of the history books is a blatant lie, so why can't the theory of evolution be also?

Man never walked on the moon either.

 

[no1tovote4]

Man never walked on the moon either.

Heh, heh. He said moon. Heh, heh.

:moon4:

 

[MissileMan]

MissileMan,

Why do you have to endorse a specific religion to say that some scientists believe that there is more evidence that something started life, rather than all lifeforms emerging from the primordial soup?

I think that perhaps your opinions on creationism are too heavily tied with Christianity, or other religions...and you are having trouble with the idea that it can be taught and studied and debated, without a relgion ever having to be mentioned at all.

If it is agreed upon that evolution is a theory...then to be intellectually honest with your students, other theories should be examined. People need to understand that they SHOULD be looking for all of the information, they SHOULD be questioning, debating, studying...otherwise we end up with a situation in which we find ourselves in often today...

I have no objection to other theories being discussed provided that the theories have some evidence to make them plausible. Another problem with adding creationism to today's classroom would come from the different religions represented in this country. Do you really believe that a highly devout Christian teacher would present the notion to his class that the Christian version of creationism is only a theory, and should be given the same weight as other religion's versions of creationism, or evolution, or alien intervention? His tongue would fall off. It wouldn't be just Christian teachers who would do this though.

The real problem is that the teaching of religion and creationsim as theory would not be tolerated. The faithful believe that what they've been taught or have come to know about their religion is fact. There is no room for possibility or compromise for most of them.

And, you are right. I don't believe you can discuss creationism without discussing religion.

 

[Merlin]

Man never walked on the moon either.

Walked on the moon? Wow!! When did they do that?

 

[freeandfun1]

I have no objection to other theories being discussed provided that the theories have some evidence to make them plausible. Another problem with adding creationism to today's classroom would come from the different religions represented in this country. Do you really believe that a highly devout Christian teacher would present the notion to his class that the Christian version of creationism is only a theory, and should be given the same weight as other religion's versions of creationism, or evolution, or alien intervention? His tongue would fall off. It wouldn't be just Christian teachers who would do this though.

The real problem is that the teaching of religion and creationsim as theory would not be tolerated. The faithful believe that what they've been taught or have come to know about their religion is fact. There is no room for possibility or compromise for most of them.

And, you are right. I don't believe you can discuss creationism without discussing religion.

ID can be taught without bringing religion into the discussion (in my opinion) as true research of ID would have to include trying to determine if "beings" from other "worlds" are how we came about. That would have, in my opinion, nothing to do with religion.

I think all anybody is wanting for now is to offer the idea that ID is possible. The stickers didn't say anything about G-d, etc. They just said that evolution is also a "theory" which is true.

 

[MissileMan]

ID can be taught without bringing religion into the discussion (in my opinion) as true research of ID would have to include trying to determine if "beings" from other "worlds" are how we came about. That would have, in my opinion, nothing to do with religion.

I think all anybody is wanting for now is to offer the idea that ID is possible. The stickers didn't say anything about G-d, etc. They just said that evolution is also a "theory" which is true.

I believe that there is a desire to teach creationism, as well as ID. Creationism is rooted in religion.

 

[freeandfun1]

Do you really believe that a highly devout Christian teacher would present the notion to his class that the Christian version of creationism is only a theory, and should be given the same weight as other religion's versions of creationism, or evolution, or alien intervention? His tongue would fall off. It wouldn't be just Christian teachers who would do this though.

This is a funny statement. By making it, you are ignoring the fact that kids are being taught every day that creationism is a lie without any mention of it as even being a theory. I would submit that if a Christian teacher can teach evolution without his tongue falling off (as is happening now) they could mention that ID is another possible theory without getting into a "religious" battle over it.....

 

[freeandfun1]

I believe that there is a desire to teach creationism, as well as ID. Creationism is rooted in religion.

Not all religion. There are atheists too that believe in ID. They just believe in the "alien" version of it.

Also, this thread is about a decision in Georgia where a federal judge ordered a suburban Atlanta school system to remove stickers from its high school biology textbooks that call evolution "a theory, not a fact." They weren't wanting to teach anything, they were just offering the students an alternative to evolution to consider.

 

[MissileMan]

This is a funny statement. By making it, you are ignoring the fact that kids are being taught every day that creationism is a lie without any mention of it as even being a theory. I would submit that if a Christian teacher can teach evolution without his tongue falling off (as is happening now) they could mention that ID is another possible theory without getting into a "religious" battle over it.....

At the present time, said teach is prohibited from teaching creationism, and therefore can't use it to argue against evolution.

 

[freeandfun1]

At the present time, said teach is prohibited from teaching creationism, and therefore can't use it to argue against evolution.

Are you thinking before you post? You implied that a Christian teacher could not teach or even mention the possibility of creationism without invoking their religion into the discussion.

I had only commented that if a Christian can teach evolution (as they do), which is against their beliefs, why could they not offer creationism as a possbile alternative without having it turn into a "religious" debate? I believe they could.

 

[freeandfun1]

At the present time, said teach is prohibited from teaching creationism, and therefore can't use it to argue against evolution.

I guess you don't think before you post.

Read what I write and stop being so defensive. Think about what I am suggesting, not what you want to think I am suggesting.

ID can be offered as an alternative theory without religion coming into the discussion. Period. We discuss topics all day every day in school without bringing religious beliefs, etc. into the discussion, why is this different? Do we not teach in history about the Pilgrims and their reasons for coming to America? Or about WWII and the persecution of the Jews because of their religion, etc. or any other topic that somehow brings religion into the classroom? You are assuming that all supporters of ID are Christian fundamentalists bent on converting you or the children they teach. What happend to exploring alternative theories in this country? Is everybody supposed to walk around in lockstep?

 

[Mr. P]

Seems to me if it is "ALL" taught as theory..No one can complain..So,
does anyone see a problem with that?

 

[freeandfun1]

Seems to me if it is "ALL" taught as theory..No one can complain..So,
does anyone see a problem with that?

That is what I have been trying to say.... Look, to remain neutral, continue to teach evolution as the primary POV, but that should not stop the idea of ID at least being offered as an alternative theory.

 

[MissileMan]

Not all religion. There are atheists too that believe in ID. They just believe in the "alien" version of it.

Also, this thread is about a decision in Georgia where a federal judge ordered a suburban Atlanta school system to remove stickers from its high school biology textbooks that call evolution "a theory, not a fact." They weren't wanting to teach anything, they were just offering the students an alternative to evolution to consider.

I think the court's decision was that the sticker was unnecessary because it's already called the theory of evolution in the text book.

You are making an argument to add ID, I am making an argument to exclude creationism. Creationism and ID aren't the same thing, although creationism would include some form of ID.

I am willing to concede that it wouldn't hurt anyone to have creationism or ID taught in school. But let's see someone get the chapter "The Theory of God, Allah, Vishnu, etc. and Creationism" added to a high school science book. You'd be able to see the book burning bonfires from orbit.

 

[freeandfun1]

...let's see someone get the chapter "The Theory of God, Allah, Vishnu, etc. and Creationism" added to a high school science book. You'd be able to see the book burning bonfires from orbit.

What an ignorant statement. If that were the case, why aren't Christians burning science books now that offer NO theory as an alternative evolution? Evolution doesn't fit in with Christian beliefs, yet millions of Christian children are taught in public schools every year about evolution and evolution only.... If anything were going to lead to massive book burnings wouldn't that?

 

[MissileMan]

What an ignorant statement. If that were the case, why aren't Christians burning science books now that offer NO theory as an alternative evolution? Evolution doesn't fit in with Christian beliefs, yet millions of Christian children are taught in public schools every year about evolution and evolution only.... If anything were going to lead to massive book burnings wouldn't that?

There's a difference between excluding creationism from the text books and calling their faith a theory. I'm not being ignorant, I'm being a realist...look at the strife that's occurring because of "two mommy" stories. The fundamentalists, and there are a bunch of them, would not tolerate their religion being called a theory in public school.

 

[freeandfun1]

There's a difference between excluding creationism from the text books and calling their faith a theory. I'm not being ignorant, I'm being a realist...look at the strife that's occurring because of "two mommy" stories. The fundamentalists, and there are a bunch of them, would not tolerate their religion being called a theory in public school.

Calling it a theory is better than calling it a lie, which is what is done now.

 

[Gem]

MissileMan,

I went to one of the better public high schools in Pennsylvania. The 10th Grade Science Curriculum at that PUBLIC high school included a segment on Evolution VS. Creationism. Both were approached as theories and God (any God, be it Christian or other) NEVER entered the conversation once.

As I have stated to Menewa, there were scientific journal articles to back up and dismiss BOTH theories...

It was one of the most interesting high school science curriculums I experienced.

To deny that experience to public school kids is to basically say that Evolution IS the only answer...and that "theory" word is just a technicality.

 

[Mr. P]

Stickers aren't coming out yet...

Just heard the Cobb County school board..ARE.. going to appeal this decision..