Genesis: God refers to himself in the plural? What the heck?

[rosends]

You are assuming that ancient Hebrew grammar was the same as the modern English translation. Trust me, it was not.

you assume I am unfamiliar with ancient hebrew grammar. trust me, i am.

Well, if you are that familiar, then you know there was no 'royal we" in the anciient Hebrew culture or language, nor have I suggested that there was at any time.

profuse apologies -- when I read in post #40 that you wrote "Well, if the Elohim or Jahwaist writers--these are among the oldest manuscripts included in the Old Testament and are the ones who used the rhetorical "we" and "us""

I did not see that the full context was that you were doubting this. I thought you were giving it credence by saying that those writers used the rhetorical "we". Sorry for the confusion.

 

[amrchaos]

Actually, not a typo, not first person plural

Do not forget that Monotheism was not practiced until after Abraham declared that there was only one god.

Try historic perspective and early polytheistics practices for your answers.

 

[rosends]

Actually, not a typo, not first person plural

Do not forget that Monotheism was not practiced until after Abraham declared that there was only one god.

Try historic perspective and early polytheistics practices for your answers.

That is an interesting statement but there might be one subtlety to it (and I am speaking from within the Jewish POV so I apologize if it is not exactly persuasive to anyone outside of it). Before Abraham, there might have been versions of monotheism but they would have recognized the wrong source of power. According to the medrash, Abraham, himself, developed his understanding of god after going through a process of elimination -- why other things couldn't be the singular ultimate power. While there were those who had a variety of idols, it also seems that there were those who looked at, for example, the sun as the singular creative god-force. Abe simply refocused the monotheism on the godhead as we accept it as the correct ideal.

 

[kwc57]

Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Is the monotheistic Christian God admitting that there is at least one other god?

Or are humans genetically engineered by aliens who are our God?

WHAT IS THE ANSWER?!?!?

Go to church. They will be happy to explain all the scriptures to you.

 

[Foxfyre]

you assume I am unfamiliar with ancient hebrew grammar. trust me, i am.

Well, if you are that familiar, then you know there was no 'royal we" in the anciient Hebrew culture or language, nor have I suggested that there was at any time.

profuse apologies -- when I read in post #40 that you wrote "Well, if the Elohim or Jahwaist writers--these are among the oldest manuscripts included in the Old Testament and are the ones who used the rhetorical "we" and "us""

I did not see that the full context was that you were doubting this. I thought you were giving it credence by saying that those writers used the rhetorical "we". Sorry for the confusion.

No apology necessary. Jt just illustrates how perception in all things, including scripture, can sometimes be a bit off.

When you put the ancient texts into their full context, there is no way to believe the ancients believed that God was multiple Gods; nor was there yet any concept of a trirnity or any other like theories that could be put forth. God was God, singular, and there was no other to be worshiped. Nor was there anything in the ancient language to suggest use of the 'royal we'. Nevertheless, the ancients did believe in other heavenly beings that were envisioned to be in the heavenly court with God. And this is the most plausible explanation of the use of 'we' and 'us' in a few of the early manuscripts.

 

[rosends]

Well, if you are that familiar, then you know there was no 'royal we" in the anciient Hebrew culture or language, nor have I suggested that there was at any time.

profuse apologies -- when I read in post #40 that you wrote "Well, if the Elohim or Jahwaist writers--these are among the oldest manuscripts included in the Old Testament and are the ones who used the rhetorical "we" and "us""

I did not see that the full context was that you were doubting this. I thought you were giving it credence by saying that those writers used the rhetorical "we". Sorry for the confusion.

No apology necessary. Jt just illustrates how perception in all things, including scripture, can sometimes be a bit off.

When you put the ancient texts into their full context, there is no way to believe the ancients believed that God was multiple Gods; nor was there yet any concept of a trirnity or any other like theories that could be put forth. God was God, singular, and there was no other to be worshiped. Nor was there anything in the ancient language to suggest use of the 'royal we'. Nevertheless, the ancients did believe in other heavenly beings that were envisioned to be in the heavenly court with God. And this is the most plausible explanation of the use of 'we' and 'us' in a few of the early manuscripts.

and that is precisely why rashi (among others) understands the text the way he does. Thanks.

 

[onecut39]

Actually it took a long time for the "Christian" religion to become monotheist.