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What I'm getting from this thread, a day later, is that it's not acceptable that the federal government subsidized GM to develop the Volz as a startup venture, an alternative to burning gasoline, but it appears to be perfectly acceptable that the federal government has subsidized oil companies for decades, although extraction and production of oil has been a proven industry for well over a hundred years. Got it.
What I'm getting from this thread, a day later, is that it's not acceptable that the federal government subsidized GM to develop the Volz as a startup venture, an alternative to burning gasoline, but it appears to be perfectly acceptable that the federal government has subsidized oil companies for decades, although extraction and production of oil has been a proven industry for well over a hundred years. Got it.
No Maggie - This thread is about the Volt's failure to sell - period.
GM has a product that cost tens of millions of dollars to develop, requires tens of millions in tax incentives to sell, and which has sold less than 1000 units since its roll out.
What I'm getting from this thread, a day later, is that it's not acceptable that the federal government subsidized GM to develop the Volz as a startup venture, an alternative to burning gasoline, but it appears to be perfectly acceptable that the federal government has subsidized oil companies for decades, although extraction and production of oil has been a proven industry for well over a hundred years. Got it.
No Maggie - This thread is about the Volt's failure to sell - period.
GM has a product that cost tens of millions of dollars to develop, requires tens of millions in tax incentives to sell, and which has sold less than 1000 units since its roll out.
And I've already said that GM didn't expect it to be profitable immediately. I guess I'll have to find that article now. However, are we supposed to just sit around while China, Japan and South Korea start reaping all the profits (and jobs) down the line? At what point does the United States get back in the game--regarding just about EVERYTHING?
Don't worry, Obama & the Democrats will make sure the Chevy Volt sales pick-up so they can pump & dump their GM stock onto the unsuspecting public. First they will run up oil prices & then they will use tax dollars to pay corporations to buy a bunch of Chevy Volts to up those sales figures.
GE Buys 12,000 Chevy Volts, Taxpayers Get Charged
BTW GE Capital also got a $Billion from TARP.
so thats 10K in subsidies we have to lay out. the charging stations are also problematic ala where to put them, the power required, cost, pay to install and maintain them etc etc...
In Alaska, for years the shopping malls have set up their parking lots with plug-in capability so vehicles can keep their engine blocks warm and batteries won't go dead. I assume that's an expense shared by the private retailers. I don't see locations for plug-in stations as being a problem at all. I'm sure there was a time when people were concerned where telephone polls would be located, too. Now we don't even notice them.
do you mean every parking meter would have a fast charge plug in station?
Yep
and how would you propose going about that?Exactly?
What I'm getting from this thread, a day later, is that it's not acceptable that the federal government subsidized GM to develop the Volz as a startup venture, an alternative to burning gasoline, but it appears to be perfectly acceptable that the federal government has subsidized oil companies for decades, although extraction and production of oil has been a proven industry for well over a hundred years. Got it.
No Maggie - This thread is about the Volt's failure to sell - period.
GM has a product that cost tens of millions of dollars to develop, requires tens of millions in tax incentives to sell, and which has sold less than 1000 units since its roll out.
And I've already said that GM didn't expect it to be profitable immediately. I guess I'll have to find that article now. However, are we supposed to just sit around while China, Japan and South Korea start reaping all the profits (and jobs) down the line? At what point does the United States get back in the game--regarding just about EVERYTHING?
and how would you propose going about that?Exactly?
In NYC? Shouldn't be all that difficult.
No Maggie - This thread is about the Volt's failure to sell - period.
GM has a product that cost tens of millions of dollars to develop, requires tens of millions in tax incentives to sell, and which has sold less than 1000 units since its roll out.
And I've already said that GM didn't expect it to be profitable immediately. I guess I'll have to find that article now. However, are we supposed to just sit around while China, Japan and South Korea start reaping all the profits (and jobs) down the line? At what point does the United States get back in the game--regarding just about EVERYTHING?
The game is about efficiency. The company that builds the best car for the dollar will win.
EV's are horribly innefficient. They are toys for the rich if you havn't figured it out yet. A Tesla will set you back 100k right now, they hope to be able to sell one for 60k. I don't see your average family plunking down the cash for a BMW M class for a limited use vehicle, do you?
You can buy a real nice mid sized sedan for 17k that will do everything you need it to do for your average family and even if the price of gas rises to 5 bucks a gallon it will STILL be far cheaper than your average EV over a life of ten years. Do you not get that?
30k is a big one.
and how would you propose going about that?Exactly?
In NYC? Shouldn't be all that difficult.
I think you've skip several posts, as in how exactly?
No Maggie - This thread is about the Volt's failure to sell - period.
GM has a product that cost tens of millions of dollars to develop, requires tens of millions in tax incentives to sell, and which has sold less than 1000 units since its roll out.
And I've already said that GM didn't expect it to be profitable immediately. I guess I'll have to find that article now. However, are we supposed to just sit around while China, Japan and South Korea start reaping all the profits (and jobs) down the line? At what point does the United States get back in the game--regarding just about EVERYTHING?
The game is about efficiency. The company that builds the best car for the dollar will win.
EV's are horribly innefficient. They are toys for the rich if you havn't figured it out yet. A Tesla will set you back 100k right now, they hope to be able to sell one for 60k. I don't see your average family plunking down the cash for a BMW M class for a limited use vehicle, do you?
You can buy a real nice mid sized sedan for 17k that will do everything you need it to do for your average family and even if the price of gas rises to 5 bucks a gallon it will STILL be far cheaper than your average EV over a life of ten years. Do you not get that?
No Maggie - This thread is about the Volt's failure to sell - period.
GM has a product that cost tens of millions of dollars to develop, requires tens of millions in tax incentives to sell, and which has sold less than 1000 units since its roll out.
And I've already said that GM didn't expect it to be profitable immediately. I guess I'll have to find that article now. However, are we supposed to just sit around while China, Japan and South Korea start reaping all the profits (and jobs) down the line? At what point does the United States get back in the game--regarding just about EVERYTHING?
if they can build a product, GM OR those foreign entitles that are marketable, I am all for it.
we don't get back in the game funding boutique automobiles, that's for sure.
and your post ala oil subsidies for exploration etc. is a strawman imho, in that the differences say the royalties etc. paid by the oil co's back to the gov. if they pull oil etc. don't exist in the automobile marketplace.
And I've already said that GM didn't expect it to be profitable immediately. I guess I'll have to find that article now. However, are we supposed to just sit around while China, Japan and South Korea start reaping all the profits (and jobs) down the line? At what point does the United States get back in the game--regarding just about EVERYTHING?
if they can build a product, GM OR those foreign entitles that are marketable, I am all for it.
we don't get back in the game funding boutique automobiles, that's for sure.
and your post ala oil subsidies for exploration etc. is a strawman imho, in that the differences say the royalties etc. paid by the oil co's back to the gov. if they pull oil etc. don't exist in the automobile marketplace.
The royalties are now treated as taxes which can be written off dollar-for-dollar. Read this:
What Obama should know about ending oil subsidies | Grist
we are and I am fully behind massively funding R&D into those very mechanisms that will make the elect. or hydrogen car a marketable reality. However, we are pursing it and any honest scientist in the know, will tell you, we are decades away.
When it becomes viable, you will see a massive influx of free market entrepreneurs and established co's moving to make it happen.
we are and I am fully behind massively funding R&D into those very mechanisms that will make the elect. or hydrogen car a marketable reality. However, we are pursing it and any honest scientist in the know, will tell you, we are decades away.
When it becomes viable, you will see a massive influx of free market entrepreneurs and established co's moving to make it happen.
Naw.
It's big oil that wants to squash this baby quick.
We aren't "decades" behind this tech. China's got a car ready to roll out..and several countries have hydro cars.
And I've already said that GM didn't expect it to be profitable immediately. I guess I'll have to find that article now. However, are we supposed to just sit around while China, Japan and South Korea start reaping all the profits (and jobs) down the line? At what point does the United States get back in the game--regarding just about EVERYTHING?
The game is about efficiency. The company that builds the best car for the dollar will win.
EV's are horribly innefficient. They are toys for the rich if you havn't figured it out yet. A Tesla will set you back 100k right now, they hope to be able to sell one for 60k. I don't see your average family plunking down the cash for a BMW M class for a limited use vehicle, do you?
You can buy a real nice mid sized sedan for 17k that will do everything you need it to do for your average family and even if the price of gas rises to 5 bucks a gallon it will STILL be far cheaper than your average EV over a life of ten years. Do you not get that?
What makes you think the hybrid cars won't go through a number of improvements, the manufacturers will figure out cost saving measures, and eventually the cost will come down just as it does for any new invention? My first computer, a satellite desktop with bulky dual disk drives which tied into a mainframe cost just under $12,000 in 1977. Fast forward through 35 years of improvements, popularity and demand, resulting cost cutting at rocket speed because of competition, and you can now buy a laptop to carry under your arm that does a gazillion more functions for under $500. I expect the same thing will happen with electric cars.
we are and I am fully behind massively funding R&D into those very mechanisms that will make the elect. or hydrogen car a marketable reality. However, we are pursing it and any honest scientist in the know, will tell you, we are decades away.
When it becomes viable, you will see a massive influx of free market entrepreneurs and established co's moving to make it happen.
Naw.
It's big oil that wants to squash this baby quick.
We aren't "decades" behind this tech. China's got a car ready to roll out..and several countries have hydro cars.
we are and I am fully behind massively funding R&D into those very mechanisms that will make the elect. or hydrogen car a marketable reality. However, we are pursing it and any honest scientist in the know, will tell you, we are decades away.
When it becomes viable, you will see a massive influx of free market entrepreneurs and established co's moving to make it happen.
Naw.
It's big oil that wants to squash this baby quick.
We aren't "decades" behind this tech. China's got a car ready to roll out..and several countries have hydro cars.
Why is it you folks allways blame Big Oil? The oil companies are heavily invested in this tech too or hadn't you noticed. The oil companies aren't stupid. They realise that they need to work on alternatives. Oil and Natural gas are however vastly more efficient in production and application. Until that nut is cracked "green" alternatives are allways going to price themselves out of the realm of the average family. That's just simple reality.
The film details the California Air Resources Board's reversal of the mandate after relentless pressure and suits from automobile manufacturers, continual pressure from the oil industry, orchestrated hype over a future hydrogen car, and finally the George W. Bush administration.
A portion of the film details GM's efforts to demonstrate to California that there was no consumer demand for their product, and then to take back every EV1 and destroy them. A few were disabled and given to museums and universities, but almost all were found to have been crushed. GM never responded to the EV drivers' offer to pay the residual lease value ($1.9 million was offered for the remaining 78 cars in Burbank before they were crushed). Several activists, including actresses Alexandra Paul and Colette Divine, are arrested in the protest that attempted to block the GM car carriers taking the remaining EV1s off to be crushed.
Who Killed the Electric Car? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
