Gen. Stanley McChrystal should be fired

[Jarhead]

I was hoping for something I could latch on to and create some kind of useful comment on this thread, but I didn't find anything.

So, out of the chute, I'll just give you what my opinion is. McChrystal is neither a hero nor an insubordinate lout. He should not continue to hold his job either for Obama or for himself. I think he was very much faced with a set of facts that have clarified themselves over the last 9 or 10 months that gave him every reason to believe he was the next in a line that started with Douglas MacArthur and continued to William Westmoreland, a General in a low-intensity conflict where the pols in Washington wanted to do everything they could to neither win nor lose the war. Well, definitely not lose, but only win if it just happens not if we have to do anything unseemly to actually win.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about here, please review the Pentagon Papers by Daniel Ellsberg. I'm referring to the list of things "we would not do" (i.e. Mine Haiphong Harbor, bomb North Vietnam, invade the North etc) "unless it appears likely we will lose the next election."

We again have a government populated by people with that mindset. McChrystal has to know this now. No four star general is dumb enough to blatantly rip on the POTUS and his entire government in front of Rolling Stone "accidentally" especially not one who is known for how smart they are. This was a stratagem. The one part of the stratagem that is obvious is that Gen. McChrystal thinks it is much better to end up like Doug MacArthur than William Westmoreland (the commander in Vietnam for those of you that don't know).

Given that he has said the things he has, it seems obvious that he thinks the entire civilian chain of command, with a couple of exceptions, are a collection of jokes, to be ridiculed as idiots. Whether or not this is actually the case doesn't really matter. The fact he thinks so matters a lot. If he is not fired, he must resign. (Hopefully he'll be able to resign instead of being fired, but the asshats in charge are petty enough to fire him in a pissing contest moment).

(And, since it has become an issue on this thread, yes I have served. Five years in the Infantry.)

Well wrtitten but my post #88 is a short version of it.

In a nutshell, McChrystal does not want the blood of my brothers on his hands.

I'm always good for the longer version of stuff ...

If I were as articulate as you, I would be a bit more verbose as well.

 

[Ravi]

I was hoping for something I could latch on to and create some kind of useful comment on this thread, but I didn't find anything.

So, out of the chute, I'll just give you what my opinion is. McChrystal is neither a hero nor an insubordinate lout. He should not continue to hold his job either for Obama or for himself. I think he was very much faced with a set of facts that have clarified themselves over the last 9 or 10 months that gave him every reason to believe he was the next in a line that started with Douglas MacArthur and continued to William Westmoreland, a General in a low-intensity conflict where the pols in Washington wanted to do everything they could to neither win nor lose the war. Well, definitely not lose, but only win if it just happens not if we have to do anything unseemly to actually win.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about here, please review the Pentagon Papers by Daniel Ellsberg. I'm referring to the list of things "we would not do" (i.e. Mine Haiphong Harbor, bomb North Vietnam, invade the North etc) "unless it appears likely we will lose the next election."

We again have a government populated by people with that mindset. McChrystal has to know this now. No four star general is dumb enough to blatantly rip on the POTUS and his entire government in front of Rolling Stone "accidentally" especially not one who is known for how smart they are. This was a stratagem. The one part of the stratagem that is obvious is that Gen. McChrystal thinks it is much better to end up like Doug MacArthur than William Westmoreland (the commander in Vietnam for those of you that don't know).

Given that he has said the things he has, it seems obvious that he thinks the entire civilian chain of command, with a couple of exceptions, are a collection of jokes, to be ridiculed as idiots. Whether or not this is actually the case doesn't really matter. The fact he thinks so matters a lot. If he is not fired, he must resign. (Hopefully he'll be able to resign instead of being fired, but the asshats in charge are petty enough to fire him in a pissing contest moment).

(And, since it has become an issue on this thread, yes I have served. Five years in the Infantry.)

Or maybe he's thrown his lot in with the terrorists and is trying to undermine the war effort.

Seriously, he could have simply resigned.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I was hoping for something I could latch on to and create some kind of useful comment on this thread, but I didn't find anything.

So, out of the chute, I'll just give you what my opinion is. McChrystal is neither a hero nor an insubordinate lout. He should not continue to hold his job either for Obama or for himself. I think he was very much faced with a set of facts that have clarified themselves over the last 9 or 10 months that gave him every reason to believe he was the next in a line that started with Douglas MacArthur and continued to William Westmoreland, a General in a low-intensity conflict where the pols in Washington wanted to do everything they could to neither win nor lose the war. Well, definitely not lose, but only win if it just happens not if we have to do anything unseemly to actually win.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about here, please review the Pentagon Papers by Daniel Ellsberg. I'm referring to the list of things "we would not do" (i.e. Mine Haiphong Harbor, bomb North Vietnam, invade the North etc) "unless it appears likely we will lose the next election."

We again have a government populated by people with that mindset. McChrystal has to know this now. No four star general is dumb enough to blatantly rip on the POTUS and his entire government in front of Rolling Stone "accidentally" especially not one who is known for how smart they are. This was a stratagem. The one part of the stratagem that is obvious is that Gen. McChrystal thinks it is much better to end up like Doug MacArthur than William Westmoreland (the commander in Vietnam for those of you that don't know).

Given that he has said the things he has, it seems obvious that he thinks the entire civilian chain of command, with a couple of exceptions, are a collection of jokes, to be ridiculed as idiots. Whether or not this is actually the case doesn't really matter. The fact he thinks so matters a lot. If he is not fired, he must resign. (Hopefully he'll be able to resign instead of being fired, but the asshats in charge are petty enough to fire him in a pissing contest moment).

(And, since it has become an issue on this thread, yes I have served. Five years in the Infantry.)

Or maybe he's thrown his lot in with the terrorists and is trying to undermine the war effort.

Seriously, he could have simply resigned.

If thats the case obama should resign

 

[Tech_Esq]

I'll assume the first was just a lunatic throw away comment. I've seen nothing to indicate that he's thrown in with terrorists (other than he said he voted for Obama). Ironic, huh?

Why not just resign? That's obvious, he thinks the administration are a bunch of clowns and house needs to be cleaned and new people brought in to be in charge of the Afghanistan strategy at the civilian level. (Not suggesting anything other than Obama needs to hire new people).

If that's what he thinks, resigning quietly is not the way to shock the country into paying attention and make things happen. This is. Although, I could have thought of better formats I think. But, who knows? I'm not sure what the effect was he's trying to have.

Incidentally, if you think this is bad for morale, you have it all backwards. The men already know how fucked up the war prosecution is. What they want is someone to give voice to their feelings, that's what McChrystal did.

 

[Ravi]

I'll assume the first was just a lunatic throw away comment. I've seen nothing to indicate that he's thrown in with terrorists (other than he said he voted for Obama). Ironic, huh?

Why not just resign? That's obvious, he thinks the administration are a bunch of clowns and house needs to be cleaned and new people brought in to be in charge of the Afghanistan strategy at the civilian level. (Not suggesting anything other than Obama needs to hire new people).

If that's what he thinks, resigning quietly is not the way to shock the country into paying attention and make things happen. This is. Although, I could have thought of better formats I think. But, who knows? I'm not sure what the effect was he's trying to have.

Incidentally, if you think this is bad for morale, you have it all backwards. The men already know how fucked up the war prosecution is. What they want is someone to give voice to their feelings, that's what McChrystal did.

If that is what he thinks that is what he should say else he is just a big coward.

Bush did no better in Afghanistan and more than likely no one really could...but even Bush should not have been treated to this gross insubordination and cowardice from anyone under him.

If what you say is a true representation of what McChrystal is doing then he should be brought up on treason charges.

 

[Jarhead]

I was hoping for something I could latch on to and create some kind of useful comment on this thread, but I didn't find anything.

So, out of the chute, I'll just give you what my opinion is. McChrystal is neither a hero nor an insubordinate lout. He should not continue to hold his job either for Obama or for himself. I think he was very much faced with a set of facts that have clarified themselves over the last 9 or 10 months that gave him every reason to believe he was the next in a line that started with Douglas MacArthur and continued to William Westmoreland, a General in a low-intensity conflict where the pols in Washington wanted to do everything they could to neither win nor lose the war. Well, definitely not lose, but only win if it just happens not if we have to do anything unseemly to actually win.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about here, please review the Pentagon Papers by Daniel Ellsberg. I'm referring to the list of things "we would not do" (i.e. Mine Haiphong Harbor, bomb North Vietnam, invade the North etc) "unless it appears likely we will lose the next election."

We again have a government populated by people with that mindset. McChrystal has to know this now. No four star general is dumb enough to blatantly rip on the POTUS and his entire government in front of Rolling Stone "accidentally" especially not one who is known for how smart they are. This was a stratagem. The one part of the stratagem that is obvious is that Gen. McChrystal thinks it is much better to end up like Doug MacArthur than William Westmoreland (the commander in Vietnam for those of you that don't know).

Given that he has said the things he has, it seems obvious that he thinks the entire civilian chain of command, with a couple of exceptions, are a collection of jokes, to be ridiculed as idiots. Whether or not this is actually the case doesn't really matter. The fact he thinks so matters a lot. If he is not fired, he must resign. (Hopefully he'll be able to resign instead of being fired, but the asshats in charge are petty enough to fire him in a pissing contest moment).

(And, since it has become an issue on this thread, yes I have served. Five years in the Infantry.)

Or maybe he's thrown his lot in with the terrorists and is trying to undermine the war effort.

Seriously, he could have simply resigned.

I am curious. Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, President Obama is not the perfect man? Is it at all possible that he is severly butchering the war effort due to his lack of experience and strong ideological thinking that may cloud his judgement?

Is this fact? NO WAY. Is it possible? Absolutely.

Stop seeing him as error free and start considering the possibility that others may know more about their areas of expertise than he does.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The Community Organizer will likely end up bowing to the great & honorable General in the end. Even he knows he can't fire McChrystal. It's all just Peacock strutting coming from the Community Organizer. He wont fire McChrystal. The man is simply too valuable. He would also make a lot more trouble for them if he is fired. He knows everything about this Administration. McChrystal will come out of this just fine. You heard it from me first.

 

[Ravi]

I was hoping for something I could latch on to and create some kind of useful comment on this thread, but I didn't find anything.

So, out of the chute, I'll just give you what my opinion is. McChrystal is neither a hero nor an insubordinate lout. He should not continue to hold his job either for Obama or for himself. I think he was very much faced with a set of facts that have clarified themselves over the last 9 or 10 months that gave him every reason to believe he was the next in a line that started with Douglas MacArthur and continued to William Westmoreland, a General in a low-intensity conflict where the pols in Washington wanted to do everything they could to neither win nor lose the war. Well, definitely not lose, but only win if it just happens not if we have to do anything unseemly to actually win.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about here, please review the Pentagon Papers by Daniel Ellsberg. I'm referring to the list of things "we would not do" (i.e. Mine Haiphong Harbor, bomb North Vietnam, invade the North etc) "unless it appears likely we will lose the next election."

We again have a government populated by people with that mindset. McChrystal has to know this now. No four star general is dumb enough to blatantly rip on the POTUS and his entire government in front of Rolling Stone "accidentally" especially not one who is known for how smart they are. This was a stratagem. The one part of the stratagem that is obvious is that Gen. McChrystal thinks it is much better to end up like Doug MacArthur than William Westmoreland (the commander in Vietnam for those of you that don't know).

Given that he has said the things he has, it seems obvious that he thinks the entire civilian chain of command, with a couple of exceptions, are a collection of jokes, to be ridiculed as idiots. Whether or not this is actually the case doesn't really matter. The fact he thinks so matters a lot. If he is not fired, he must resign. (Hopefully he'll be able to resign instead of being fired, but the asshats in charge are petty enough to fire him in a pissing contest moment).

(And, since it has become an issue on this thread, yes I have served. Five years in the Infantry.)

Or maybe he's thrown his lot in with the terrorists and is trying to undermine the war effort.

Seriously, he could have simply resigned.

I am curious. Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, President Obama is not the perfect man? Is it at all possible that he is severly butchering the war effort due to his lack of experience and strong ideological thinking that may cloud his judgement?

Is this fact? NO WAY. Is it possible? Absolutely.

Stop seeing him as error free and start considering the possibility that others may know more about their areas of expertise than he does.

I don't see him as error free and in fact I voted for him for one reason and one reason only.

This has nothing to do with Obama...it has to do with McCrystal damaging the United States.

 

[JimH52]

I don't think he will be happy until we invade another country...THAT SHOULD DO IT!

 

[Jarhead]

I'll assume the first was just a lunatic throw away comment. I've seen nothing to indicate that he's thrown in with terrorists (other than he said he voted for Obama). Ironic, huh?

Why not just resign? That's obvious, he thinks the administration are a bunch of clowns and house needs to be cleaned and new people brought in to be in charge of the Afghanistan strategy at the civilian level. (Not suggesting anything other than Obama needs to hire new people).

If that's what he thinks, resigning quietly is not the way to shock the country into paying attention and make things happen. This is. Although, I could have thought of better formats I think. But, who knows? I'm not sure what the effect was he's trying to have.

Incidentally, if you think this is bad for morale, you have it all backwards. The men already know how fucked up the war prosecution is. What they want is someone to give voice to their feelings, that's what McChrystal did.

If that is what he thinks that is what he should say else he is just a big coward.

Bush did no better in Afghanistan and more than likely no one really could...but even Bush should not have been treated to this gross insubordination and cowardice from anyone under him.

If what you say is a true representation of what McChrystal is doing then he should be brought up on treason charges.

We need to see how this pans out.

But I am curious...can you name any war time president that has never used the word "victory" as it pertains to the war?

Take it from a Marine. All enlisted men and women, all NCO's, all officers NEED to hear the word victory from the CiC.

And we have not.

Take it from there.

 

[Jarhead]

Or maybe he's thrown his lot in with the terrorists and is trying to undermine the war effort.

Seriously, he could have simply resigned.

I am curious. Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, President Obama is not the perfect man? Is it at all possible that he is severly butchering the war effort due to his lack of experience and strong ideological thinking that may cloud his judgement?

Is this fact? NO WAY. Is it possible? Absolutely.

Stop seeing him as error free and start considering the possibility that others may know more about their areas of expertise than he does.

I don't see him as error free and in fact I voted for him for one reason and one reason only.

This has nothing to do with Obama...it has to do with McCrystal damaging the United States.

No doubt McChrystal was in error.

The question is, what prompted him to do it?

And I suggest we all keep an open mind about that.

 

[JimH52]

I was hoping for something I could latch on to and create some kind of useful comment on this thread, but I didn't find anything.

So, out of the chute, I'll just give you what my opinion is. McChrystal is neither a hero nor an insubordinate lout. He should not continue to hold his job either for Obama or for himself. I think he was very much faced with a set of facts that have clarified themselves over the last 9 or 10 months that gave him every reason to believe he was the next in a line that started with Douglas MacArthur and continued to William Westmoreland, a General in a low-intensity conflict where the pols in Washington wanted to do everything they could to neither win nor lose the war. Well, definitely not lose, but only win if it just happens not if we have to do anything unseemly to actually win.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about here, please review the Pentagon Papers by Daniel Ellsberg. I'm referring to the list of things "we would not do" (i.e. Mine Haiphong Harbor, bomb North Vietnam, invade the North etc) "unless it appears likely we will lose the next election."

We again have a government populated by people with that mindset. McChrystal has to know this now. No four star general is dumb enough to blatantly rip on the POTUS and his entire government in front of Rolling Stone "accidentally" especially not one who is known for how smart they are. This was a stratagem. The one part of the stratagem that is obvious is that Gen. McChrystal thinks it is much better to end up like Doug MacArthur than William Westmoreland (the commander in Vietnam for those of you that don't know).

Given that he has said the things he has, it seems obvious that he thinks the entire civilian chain of command, with a couple of exceptions, are a collection of jokes, to be ridiculed as idiots. Whether or not this is actually the case doesn't really matter. The fact he thinks so matters a lot. If he is not fired, he must resign. (Hopefully he'll be able to resign instead of being fired, but the asshats in charge are petty enough to fire him in a pissing contest moment).

(And, since it has become an issue on this thread, yes I have served. Five years in the Infantry.)

Or maybe he's thrown his lot in with the terrorists and is trying to undermine the war effort.

Seriously, he could have simply resigned.

I am curious. Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, President Obama is not the perfect man? Is it at all possible that he is severly butchering the war effort due to his lack of experience and strong ideological thinking that may cloud his judgement?
Is this fact? NO WAY. Is it possible? Absolutely.

Stop seeing him as error free and start considering the possibility that others may know more about their areas of expertise than he does.

You think he is calling the shots on the ground? No. Do you think he has tied the General's hands? No. He has actually significantly increased the troop level in Afganistan above even what W had.


The existing Government iN Afganistan cannot stand alone. It is corrupt and indecisive, to say the least. This is looking more and more like a second Vietnam. The Vietcon had China. The Taliban have Pakiston.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

In my opinion this General is a Whistle Blower Hero. God Bless General McChrystal.

 

[JimH52]

and yet we send Billions to Pakistan. What is wrong with this picture? They either throw the Taliban out or we stop the money. Bottom line!

 

[Misty]

Freedom of speech baby. You might not always like what you hear.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I'll assume the first was just a lunatic throw away comment. I've seen nothing to indicate that he's thrown in with terrorists (other than he said he voted for Obama). Ironic, huh?

Why not just resign? That's obvious, he thinks the administration are a bunch of clowns and house needs to be cleaned and new people brought in to be in charge of the Afghanistan strategy at the civilian level. (Not suggesting anything other than Obama needs to hire new people).

If that's what he thinks, resigning quietly is not the way to shock the country into paying attention and make things happen. This is. Although, I could have thought of better formats I think. But, who knows? I'm not sure what the effect was he's trying to have.

Incidentally, if you think this is bad for morale, you have it all backwards. The men already know how fucked up the war prosecution is. What they want is someone to give voice to their feelings, that's what McChrystal did.

If that is what he thinks that is what he should say else he is just a big coward.

Bush did no better in Afghanistan and more than likely no one really could...but even Bush should not have been treated to this gross insubordination and cowardice from anyone under him.

If what you say is a true representation of what McChrystal is doing then he should be brought up on treason charges.

Interesting tactic calling military men with demonstrated acts of courage cowards. Ummm....lemme know how that works out for ya.

I'm a firm believer that actually telling the Emporer that he has no clothes saves lives. If we are not prosecuting the war to our best ability, then we should do that. I haven't heard anything in the last year to lead me to believe we are prosecuting it to our best ability.

The blame for that lies with the civilian leadership. They are not providing the men, material and RoE for prosecuting an effective effort. If McChrystal is willing to fall on his sword for the betterment of those serving under him, then for that, he is a hero. I don't know if that's the case yet, but we will see.

 

[WillowTree]

I'll assume the first was just a lunatic throw away comment. I've seen nothing to indicate that he's thrown in with terrorists (other than he said he voted for Obama). Ironic, huh?

Why not just resign? That's obvious, he thinks the administration are a bunch of clowns and house needs to be cleaned and new people brought in to be in charge of the Afghanistan strategy at the civilian level. (Not suggesting anything other than Obama needs to hire new people).

If that's what he thinks, resigning quietly is not the way to shock the country into paying attention and make things happen. This is. Although, I could have thought of better formats I think. But, who knows? I'm not sure what the effect was he's trying to have.

Incidentally, if you think this is bad for morale, you have it all backwards. The men already know how fucked up the war prosecution is. What they want is someone to give voice to their feelings, that's what McChrystal did.

If that is what he thinks that is what he should say else he is just a big coward.

Bush did no better in Afghanistan and more than likely no one really could...but even Bush should not have been treated to this gross insubordination and cowardice from anyone under him.

If what you say is a true representation of what McChrystal is doing then he should be brought up on treason charges.

We need to see how this pans out.

But I am curious...can you name any war time president that has never used the word "victory" as it pertains to the war?

Take it from a Marine. All enlisted men and women, all NCO's, all officers NEED to hear the word victory from the CiC.

And we have not.

Take it from there.

Thank You for your service. It is much appreciated.

 

[ConHog]

I'll assume the first was just a lunatic throw away comment. I've seen nothing to indicate that he's thrown in with terrorists (other than he said he voted for Obama). Ironic, huh?

Why not just resign? That's obvious, he thinks the administration are a bunch of clowns and house needs to be cleaned and new people brought in to be in charge of the Afghanistan strategy at the civilian level. (Not suggesting anything other than Obama needs to hire new people).

If that's what he thinks, resigning quietly is not the way to shock the country into paying attention and make things happen. This is. Although, I could have thought of better formats I think. But, who knows? I'm not sure what the effect was he's trying to have.

Incidentally, if you think this is bad for morale, you have it all backwards. The men already know how fucked up the war prosecution is. What they want is someone to give voice to their feelings, that's what McChrystal did.

If that is what he thinks that is what he should say else he is just a big coward.

Bush did no better in Afghanistan and more than likely no one really could...but even Bush should not have been treated to this gross insubordination and cowardice from anyone under him.

If what you say is a true representation of what McChrystal is doing then he should be brought up on treason charges.

SHUT UP.

He was not treasonous. Read a god damned history book. Theater commanders argue with the President ALL the time. History has shown that the smart President heeds his theater commander's advice. Obama is a moron if he ignores the valid military expertise being offered him.

The ONLY way this becomes treason is if Obama gives him a legal direct order and he disobeys.

Stop with the partisan stupidity and understand that you have ZERO comprehension of the UCMJ. Your concept of what is right and wrong do NOT apply here.

As Jarhead stated, a magazine probably wasn't the best place to speak out but in the end, who gives a shit what you say as long as the soldiers in theater feel their guy is fighting for them.

 

[Misty]

It wouldn't surprise me if this isn't some cooked up
distraction to keep us from focusing on the real problems like the oil spill the war the healthcare the economy.

 

[Ravi]

I'll assume the first was just a lunatic throw away comment. I've seen nothing to indicate that he's thrown in with terrorists (other than he said he voted for Obama). Ironic, huh?

Why not just resign? That's obvious, he thinks the administration are a bunch of clowns and house needs to be cleaned and new people brought in to be in charge of the Afghanistan strategy at the civilian level. (Not suggesting anything other than Obama needs to hire new people).

If that's what he thinks, resigning quietly is not the way to shock the country into paying attention and make things happen. This is. Although, I could have thought of better formats I think. But, who knows? I'm not sure what the effect was he's trying to have.

Incidentally, if you think this is bad for morale, you have it all backwards. The men already know how fucked up the war prosecution is. What they want is someone to give voice to their feelings, that's what McChrystal did.

If that is what he thinks that is what he should say else he is just a big coward.

Bush did no better in Afghanistan and more than likely no one really could...but even Bush should not have been treated to this gross insubordination and cowardice from anyone under him.

If what you say is a true representation of what McChrystal is doing then he should be brought up on treason charges.

SHUT UP.

He was not treasonous. Read a god damned history book. Theater commanders argue with the President ALL the time. History has shown that the smart President heeds his theater commander's advice. Obama is a moron if he ignores the valid military expertise being offered him.

The ONLY way this becomes treason is if Obama gives him a legal direct order and he disobeys.

Stop with the partisan stupidity and understand that you have ZERO comprehension of the UCMJ. Your concept of what is right and wrong do NOT apply here.

As Jarhead stated, a magazine probably wasn't the best place to speak out but in the end, who gives a shit what you say as long as the soldiers in theater feel their guy is fighting for them.

He wasn't arguing with anyone. And the purpose of a general isn't to fight for his soldiers and the purpose of the soldiers isn't to be coddled by a general.

Their purpose is to fight for the country, nothing more.