Gaza: the rights and wrongs

[RetiredGySgt]

Actually DavidS, your analogy is pretty good. I think I will use it on the other forums I post on, but with one minor change.

Israel and Zionism are the cancer that must be eradicated from the world.

Zionism is a horrible disease and needs to be agressively wiped out. The tumor called Israel is bringing nothing but death to the world body and must be cut out, burned off, or removed, in any way possible for the welfare of humanity. Only when Israel is history will the earth have a change to achieve peace

I keep asking you Sunni man, does Allah support the murder of women and children and non combatants? Does Allah support the use of his holy sites as armories and training grounds for terrorists?

 

[sky dancer]

No one's trying to "kill ideas". They're trying to stop missiles.

And stupidity and lying like that is why you got negged.

I don't see the lie here. Are you saying that you neg rep posters for stupidity? Wow.

How do you propose getting a 'Palestinian regime change'? Really.

I agree Hamas is not serving the Palestinians best interests.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I don't see the lie here. Are you saying that you neg rep posters for stupidity? Wow.

The lie would be that Israel is trying to kill an idea. Israel does not care that Hamas exists EXCEPT that they keep attacking Israel. If Hanas quit launching missiles into Israel and quit sending suicide Bombers and quit attcking their troops, they could live in peace forever.

 

[jillian]

I don't see the lie here. Are you saying that you neg rep posters for stupidity? Wow.

No. I don't neg people for pure stupid. But for the past week, she's been corrected on every one of her misstatements. When someone intentionally repeats things that have been proven incorrect, they are lying.

Stupidity can always be forgiven.

 

[Sunni Man]

Stupidity can always be forgiven.

OK Jillian, I forgive You!!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

OK Jillian, I fogive You!!

I am still waiting for my answers Sunniman.

 

[sky dancer]

The lie would be that Israel is trying to kill an idea. Israel does not care that Hamas exists EXCEPT that they keep attacking Israel. If Hanas quit launching missiles into Israel and quit sending suicide Bombers and quit attcking their troops, they could live in peace forever.

Actually, that's not true. Many posters here express the view that Hamas needs to go.

Israel's position stands in opposition to Hamas. Rightly so. One of the principle tenets in Hamas' stand is that it wants ALL the land including the nation of Israel back.

That's not a workable policy.

You're right, that we need a ceasefire. That's an agreement to stop hostilities (lobbing bombs at each other) on both sides.

 

[Truthmatters]

No. I don't neg people for pure stupid. But for the past week, she's been corrected on every one of her misstatements. When someone intentionally repeats things that have been proven incorrect, they are lying.

Stupidity can always be forgiven.

This is flat not true. Where have I lied about anything? You just dont like what I have to say. You are so hate filled you dont see arabs or muslims as people anymore.

Jane Stillwater's Web Log: 01/01/2009 - 02/01/2009


The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, 2009-style: Another little girl in a red coat....

Being sick at heart over the slaughter in Gaza, I went to the United States Holocaust Museum's website to see if there was any similarities between the Warsaw Ghetto uprising of 1943 and what is happening in Gaza right now. This is what I found:

"Many Jews in ghettos across eastern Europe," stated the website, "tried to organize resistance against the Germans and to arm themselves with smuggled and homemade weapons. Between 1941 and 1943, underground resistance movements formed in about 100 Jewish groups. The most famous attempt by Jews to resist the Germans in armed fighting occurred in the Warsaw ghetto."

Does that or does that not sound like what has been happening in Palestine for the last 60 years -- as Palestinians have been continuously and systematically killed, deported and rounded up into camps? I mean seriously. Isn't Gaza today the largest concentration camp in the world?

People are starving in Gaza. They are trapped there. They have no way out. And now they are being exterminated wholesale -- like fish in a barrel. The similarities between Warsaw and Gaza are getting clearer and clearer.

"In January 1943," continued the museum's narrative, "Warsaw ghetto fighters fired upon German troops as they tried to round up another group of ghetto inhabitants for deportation. Fighters used a small supply of weapons that had been smuggled into the ghetto. After a few days, the troops retreated. This small victory inspired the ghetto fighters to prepare for future resistance. On April 19, 1943, the Warsaw ghetto uprising began after German troops and police entered the ghetto to deport its surviving inhabitants. Seven hundred and fifty fighters fought the heavily armed and well-trained Germans. The ghetto fighters were able to hold out for nearly a month, but on May 16, 1943, the revolt ended."

Resistance fighters in Gaza, slaughter in Gaza. Deportation in Gaza. Blitzkrieg in Gaza. It all sounds too familiar.

Never again? Yeah right.

Too many little girls in red coats are being killed in Gaza right now.

What Gaza desperately needs right now is a new Schindler's List.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Actually, that's not true. Many posters here express the view that Hamas needs to go.

Israel's position stands in opposition to Hamas. Rightly so. One of the principle tenets in Hamas' stand is that it wants ALL the land including the nation of Israel back.

That's not a workable policy.

You're right, that we need a ceasefire. That's an agreement to stop hostilities (lobbing bombs at each other) on both sides.

The Israelis have no reason to believe that another cease fire will produce anything other then a continuation of missiles raining down on Israel. Or maybe you can provide us with the last time Hamas quit shooting missiles?

 

[sky dancer]

No. I don't neg people for pure stupid. But for the past week, she's been corrected on every one of her misstatements. When someone intentionally repeats things that have been proven incorrect, they are lying.
Stupidity can always be forgiven.

Hmm. I don't know what misstatements have been corrected. If the statements are opinion then they aren't 'misstatements'.

Sorry to get side tracked off topic. I was stunned that you neg rep people for 'lying and stupidity'.

Lying implies a deliberate intention to mislead or provide false information. Unless you're a mind reader, how can you really know what the other posters intention is? Rhetorical questions, I suppose.

 

[Munin]

Jillian--

You are mischaracterizing my position. I'm interested in peace in the Middle East. I think the US has to challenge 'business as usual' and try a different approach with Israel and with the Palestinians.

Like it or not, Hamas is a democratically elected governmental body.

If Obama is smart, tough and fair to all sides, he may influence this situation in a positive direction.

I want Israel to survive.

In any "normal" democracy people who commit crimes against humanity and openly admit it are people who are being persecuted by the justice system of that Nation. An organization like Hamas would never be able to claim a legitimate governmental role in a democracy because they are CRIMINALS who have not been persecuted for their actions. That is why Hamas is never been recognized as a "democratically elected governmental body" and never will be (international laws). So to use the word democratic, you first need a democracy.

About Obama: He will not have a choice, he will never support a terrorist organization (Hamas is a terrorist organization: this is widely acknowledged in the US). The other thing is that the situation now is already negotiated by president Sarkozy and other delegates from all over the world: so it will probably be to late for Obama to deal with this situation (the recent conflict, not the long term conflict).

 

[toomuchtime_]

But it never does---it only supports resolutions that favor Israel. The US is far to pro Israel to be the deal broker here. Hell--we PAY for the whole damn thing,.

Exactly what resolutions favor Israel? The truth is the US has supported numerous resolutions that were critical of Israel as long as that criticism was placed in context, that is, also applied the same standards to the actions of Israel's enemies.

In 1948, the US ignored the plea of the UN General Assembly for the Security Council to prevent the expected Arab invasion of Israel after declared statehood. Was that too pro Israel?

In 1949, it was pressure from the US that forced Israel to agree to a cease fire when it had all the Arab armies on the run but had not yet captured Jerusalem. Was that too pro Israel?

In 1956, it was the US that threatened to use military force to remove Israeli troops from Sinai if they did not withdraw on their own. Was that too pro Israel?

In 1967, it was the US that forced Israel to agree to another cease fire when the IDF was less than a day's march from Cairo and Damascus. Was too pro Israel?

In 1973, it was the US again that forced the Israelis to agree to yet another cease fire before they had regained the land they had lost in the Yom Kippur War. Was that too pro Israel?

In the late 1970's, it was US President Jimmy Carter who threatened to cut off US aid to Israel if it did not halt settlement expansion. Was that too pro Israel?

In 1992, it was the US President Bill Clinton that forced the Shamir government out of office because it refused to agree to bringing Arafat back from Tunisia to lead the Palestinians. Was that too pro Israel?

It was US President Bill Clinton who persuaded Rabin to accept the Oslo Accords and to accept Arafat as the representative of the Palestinians despite enormous opposition to Arafat by the Israeli public. Was this too pro Israeli? And it was Bill Clinton who pressured Rabin's successors, Netenyahu and Barak, to continue the negotiations with Arafat despite the fact that support for these talks had fallen to less than 30% of the Israeli public. Was this too pro Israeli?

The only way you can reasonably claim the US has been too pro Israeli is if you consider not being anti Israeli as being too pro Israeli.

 

[strollingbones]

We give Israel 3 billion dollars in military aid.

Obama will take our policy in a different direction. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does that. This will likely be Hillary's first business as Secretary of State.

I think it's good that she has some experience having worked in Northern Ireland.

hillary is pro israel and obama has already made statements about this...that were supportive of israel and their right to defend themselves

i do not understand why you keep comparing this to n ireland...the troubles died out due to the people being sick of the killing...