Gaza Freedom Flotilla Attacked, 2 killed 50 Injured - Israeli Murder and Piracy

[Ringel05]

Riiight...so if this was in international waters and they were US citizens being attacked by Russian troops off the coast of Vladavostok, you'd hail Russian commandos as doing the right thing? Get a grip....

What?! How does that relate to the situation under discussion? Obviously you have no clue. But then what else is new, you've always shown your inability to think without emoting.

It's an example designed to show that your opinions of the event are decided by who the actors are, not the actual events that occurred. Its not really complicated, at all. But I suspect you don't have a valid reply to it since you questioned its relevance as opposed to actually responding to it.

No moron. I questioned your attack delivery which is typical of your posts.
You didn't want a valid reply or else you would have phrased you statement differently. Nice try at deflection though.

 

[Nik]

Folks. You need to turn on the news (BBC). New videos showing the soldiers being viciously attacked as soon as they were on the deck. They were fighting for their lives. This whole thing looks pre-organized, the protesters were waiting for the Israelis with obvious intent of malice.

Riiight...so if this was in international waters and they were US citizens being attacked by Russian troops off the coast of Vladavostok, you'd hail Russian commandos as doing the right thing? Get a grip....

If the US citizens did the exact same thing that those "peace protesters" did to those lawfully acting commandos, yes.

So if Russian commandos illegally boarded an American boat, the Americans should just sort of lay back and accept it?

 

[Dr Grump]

Folks. You need to turn on the news (BBC). New videos showing the soldiers being viciously attacked as soon as they were on the deck. They were fighting for their lives. This whole thing looks pre-organized, the protesters were waiting for the Israelis with obvious intent of malice.

Riiight...so if this was in international waters and they were US citizens being attacked by Russian troops off the coast of Vladavostok, you'd hail Russian commandos as doing the right thing? Get a grip....

If the US citizens did the exact same thing that those "peace protesters" did to those lawfully acting commandos, yes.

Please explain to me how those commandos were acting lawfully....

 

[Dr Grump]

Riiight...so if this was in international waters and they were US citizens being attacked by Russian troops off the coast of Vladavostok, you'd hail Russian commandos as doing the right thing? Get a grip....

If the US citizens did the exact same thing that those "peace protesters" did to those lawfully acting commandos, yes.

So if Russian commandos illegally boarded an American boat, the Americans should just sort of lay back and accept it?

And if that boat was full of right-wing Yanks who believe like those who post on this board, how do you think this convo would be going?

 

[Nik]

Your moral equivalence ploy is laughable, at best. It isn't even close to being analogous.

Oh?

Do explain how they aren't analogous please. Be detailed.

Hmm
Vladivostok citizens havent attacked Russia
There is no support group in the US for people from Vladivostok
There is no embargo on the eastern part of Russia
There is no concern of Americans supplying terrorist items to people in Vladivostok

So aside ffrom being completely different they are totally analogous

And all of that has to do what exactly with a boat in INTERNATIONAL WATERS?

 

[P F Tinmore]

It's a huge PR photo op.

Israel told Turkey not to send the ships in. Turkey tried to force the ships from the terrorists into Israel's land. Israel tried to stop them, they didn't stop.

Then when Israeli commandos went on the ship, they attacked them, and used their guns against them.

And yet, their the victims

If they truely wanted to send aid, they could have docked in the port of Ashdod, Tel-Aviv. It would have been unloaded and sent there, but they wanted to stage their huge propoganda event.

i still haven't been able to see the video yet and i haven't been able to sort a few things out. i'm kinda busy doing other things and i'm outdoors and can just barely use the browser because of that big texas sun.

am i reading correctly in your posts and a few others that the israelis attempted to board the vessel and they were resisted with improvised weapons or were there firearms aboard the craft before the israelis got there?

its unclear in some of the text reports and i got the impression from one report that the crew fired on the boarding party first. was that because they already had firearms aboard or did it get out of hand when they were able to disarm some of the boarders?

From what I saw, when the Israelis boarded the ship they were met by men with clubs. Two pistols were taken from the invading troops but the people were overwhelmed by the troops. The Israeli troops were the first aggressors.

 

[Ringel05]

Riiight...so if this was in international waters and they were US citizens being attacked by Russian troops off the coast of Vladavostok, you'd hail Russian commandos as doing the right thing? Get a grip....

If the US citizens did the exact same thing that those "peace protesters" did to those lawfully acting commandos, yes.

So if Russian commandos illegally boarded an American boat, the Americans should just sort of lay back and accept it?

It was a war footing blockade, i.e. legal. They were warned even before all this happened not to do it. They did it anyway and don't buy the humanitarian aid crap. This was how weapons were being smuggled in before Israel started the blockade.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Riiight...so if this was in international waters and they were US citizens being attacked by Russian troops off the coast of Vladavostok, you'd hail Russian commandos as doing the right thing? Get a grip....

If the US citizens did the exact same thing that those "peace protesters" did to those lawfully acting commandos, yes.

So if Russian commandos illegally boarded an American boat, the Americans should just sort of lay back and accept it?

The boarding was legal.

If you disagree, prove it by citing international law that prohibits navies from boarding and inspecting ships in international water. While you are at it, you will simultaneously need to defend the fact that the United States claims the right to do this for any vessel they believe is suspicious, which is, according to you, illegal.

 

[Dr Grump]

If the US citizens did the exact same thing that those "peace protesters" did to those lawfully acting commandos, yes.

So if Russian commandos illegally boarded an American boat, the Americans should just sort of lay back and accept it?

The boarding was legal.

If you disagree, prove it by citing international law that prohibits navies from boarding and inspecting ships in international water. While you are at it, you will simultaneously need to defend the fact that the United States claims the right to do this for any vessel they believe is suspicious, which is, according to you, illegal.

Cool, so you have no problem if a Russian warship boards a US fishing vessel...would love to see that happen...

 

[Nik]

If the US citizens did the exact same thing that those "peace protesters" did to those lawfully acting commandos, yes.

So if Russian commandos illegally boarded an American boat, the Americans should just sort of lay back and accept it?

It was a war footing blockade, i.e. legal. They were warned even before all this happened not to do it. They did it anyway and don't buy the humanitarian aid crap. This was how weapons were being smuggled in before Israel started the blockade.

Oh? Please cite the legal doctrine that makes the blockade legal. Furthermore please cite the doctrine that says that you can forcibly board ships in international waters because of their stated intent. Good luck

 

[Dr Grump]

Your moral equivalence ploy is laughable, at best. It isn't even close to being analogous.

Oh?

Do explain how they aren't analogous please. Be detailed.

Hmm
Vladivostok citizens havent attacked Russia
There is no support group in the US for people from Vladivostok
There is no embargo on the eastern part of Russia
There is no concern of Americans supplying terrorist items to people in Vladivostok

So aside ffrom being completely different they are totally analogous

And that is what it comes down to...supply terrorist items..

So let me get this straight...
This flotilla that has openly courted international media attention probably had hidden weaponry onboard, knowing that at some stage Israeli forces would probably search the vessel, and more likely than not find any contraband, and make themselves look like complete dickheads? Yeah, right.....

 

[ekrem]

(...)
based on that what I saw(...)

You did not see wounded or dead civilians.
You just saw, what Israel released to press.
There is media-blockade and media still can't reach crew members in port of Ashdod.
Israel is currently taking the strategy of demonizing the civilian crew members, it even says, crew members have links to Al-Qaeda.

Israeli deputy foreign minister Danny Ayalon claims the Turkish-based aid group has ties to terror groups including Al Qaeda.
Aussies onboard during deadly convoy raid - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

You Israelis totally fucked-up the situation.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So if Russian commandos illegally boarded an American boat, the Americans should just sort of lay back and accept it?

The boarding was legal.

If you disagree, prove it by citing international law that prohibits navies from boarding and inspecting ships in international water. While you are at it, you will simultaneously need to defend the fact that the United States claims the right to do this for any vessel they believe is suspicious, which is, according to you, illegal.

Cool, so you have no problem if a Russian warship boards a US fishing vessel...would love to see that happen...

It has. In fact, they shot down a US airline that flew into their airspace. Do you remember the war that happened after that event?

Me either. I also notice you did not attempt to prove me wrong.

 

[Ringel05]

So if Russian commandos illegally boarded an American boat, the Americans should just sort of lay back and accept it?

It was a war footing blockade, i.e. legal. They were warned even before all this happened not to do it. They did it anyway and don't buy the humanitarian aid crap. This was how weapons were being smuggled in before Israel started the blockade.

Oh? Please cite the legal doctrine that makes the blockade legal. Furthermore please cite the doctrine that says that you can forcibly board ships in international waters because of their stated intent. Good luck

A little thing called Maritime Law. You can do the specific search if you want, I don't have the hours it would take to find the articles covering this issue. You can also search the National Archives database for relevant historical precedence. Try again.

 

[Dr Grump]

The boarding was legal.

If you disagree, prove it by citing international law that prohibits navies from boarding and inspecting ships in international water. While you are at it, you will simultaneously need to defend the fact that the United States claims the right to do this for any vessel they believe is suspicious, which is, according to you, illegal.

Cool, so you have no problem if a Russian warship boards a US fishing vessel...would love to see that happen...

It has. In fact, they shot down a US airline that flew into their airspace. Do you remember the war that happened after that event?

Me either. I also notice you did not attempt to prove me wrong.

It was a Korean airliner and it was in 1984...

I'm don't need to prove you wrong. Slavery was legal in some nations once upon a time, doesn't mean it was morally right, does it?

 

[tommywho70x]

Oh?

Do explain how they aren't analogous please. Be detailed.

Hmm
Vladivostok citizens havent attacked Russia
There is no support group in the US for people from Vladivostok
There is no embargo on the eastern part of Russia
There is no concern of Americans supplying terrorist items to people in Vladivostok

So aside ffrom being completely different they are totally analogous

And that is what it comes down to...supply terrorist items..


So let me get this straight...
This flotilla that has openly courted international media attention probably had hidden weaponry onboard, knowing that at some stage Israeli forces would probably search the vessel, and more likely than not find any contraband, and make themselves look like complete dickheads? Yeah, right.....

it is has not been made clear yet whether they were armed or disarmed members of the boarding party. there have been no reports of weapons as cargo.

 

[ekrem]

A little thing called Maritime Law. You can do the specific search if you want, I don't have the hours it would take to find the articles covering this issue. You can also search the National Archives database for relevant historical precedence. Try again.

U.N. Human Rights Chief: Israel's Blockade of Gaza Strip Is Illegal
United Nations human rights chief Navi Pillay on Friday accused Israel of violating the rules of warfare with its blockade stopping people and goods from moving in or out of the Gaza Strip.
In a 34-page report on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Pillay also called on Israel to stop expanding its West Bank settlements and punish all settlers who attack Palestinians.

U.N. Human Rights Chief: Israel's Blockade of Gaza Strip Is Illegal - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

 

[Dr Grump]

Hmm
Vladivostok citizens havent attacked Russia
There is no support group in the US for people from Vladivostok
There is no embargo on the eastern part of Russia
There is no concern of Americans supplying terrorist items to people in Vladivostok

So aside ffrom being completely different they are totally analogous

And that is what it comes down to...supply terrorist items..


So let me get this straight...
This flotilla that has openly courted international media attention probably had hidden weaponry onboard, knowing that at some stage Israeli forces would probably search the vessel, and more likely than not find any contraband, and make themselves look like complete dickheads? Yeah, right.....

it is has not been made clear yet whether they were armed or disarmed members of the boarding party. there have been no reports of weapons as cargo.

Bingo....

 

[Ringel05]

(...)
based on that what I saw(...)

You did not see wounded or dead civilians.
You just saw, what Israel released to press.
There is media-blockade and media still can't reach crew members in port of Ashdod.
Israel is currently taking the strategy of demonizing the civilian crew members, it even says, crew members have links to Al-Qaeda.

Israeli deputy foreign minister Danny Ayalon claims the Turkish-based aid group has ties to terror groups including Al Qaeda.
Aussies onboard during deadly convoy raid - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

You Israelis totally fucked-up the situation.

Are you calling me an Israeli?!

 

[ekrem]

it is has not been made clear yet whether they were armed or disarmed members of the boarding party. there have been no reports of weapons as cargo.

There were no weapons.
All crew members have been checked by x-ray when boarding ships in Istanbul and Antalya.


Turkish officials have denied claims leveled by Israeli authorities that weapons were onboard one of the six aid ships attacked by Israel on Monday. Officials from the Customs Undersecretariat said every passenger was searched before getting on the ship with the help of X-ray machines and metal detectors. Senior officials from the undersecretariat said Israel's allegations were tantamount to “complete nonsense.”

Officials deny Israeli claims weapons were onboard