Gaza Freedom Flotilla Attacked, 2 killed 50 Injured - Israeli Murder and Piracy

[The Rabbi]

Like I said. Just among the brain dead Pali lovers here.

 

[Liability]

Ahem:

Daled Amos: Did Israel Create Hamas

The Israel created Hamas claim gets dismissed as a myth.

Except among the brain dead conspiracy theorist lefty Pali-lovers.

How Israel Created Hamas
January 27, 2009



By ANDREW HIGGINS
Moshav Tekuma, Israel

Surveying the wreckage of a neighbor’s bungalow hit by a Palestinian rocket, retired Israeli official Avner Cohen traces the missile’s trajectory back to an “enormous, stupid mistake” made 30 years ago.

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel’s destruction.

Instead of trying to curb Gaza’s Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with “Yassins,” primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric.

How Israel Created Hamas Pak Alert Press

So much for your "myth"!!

So much for your misbegotten reading comprehension.

Tolerating an organization -- even USING it to some extent -- is NOT the same as "creating" it.

Words have reason.

You don't.

 

[Modbert]

I'm just curious if anyone has bothered to look exactly what is on the "ban" list.

http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf

Better not be trying to bring a newspaper.

 

[Modbert]

The sad part is Israel always said that after the goods were inspected, anything that actually was humanitarian and allowable would be let in .

Look at the ban list. You agree with it? Just wondering.

To me, this list seems more about breaking the people who live in that area than it does protecting Israel.

 

[Liability]

I'm just curious if anyone has bothered to look exactly what is on the "ban" list.

http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf

Better not be trying to bring a newspaper.

Why would it surprise you that, in a blockade related to war, items that could very well provide tools for propaganda might be prohibited?

I see that many necessities are permitted. I see that many items of convenience, or mere comfort, or items which could be used as components of weaponry are banned.

 

[Modbert]

Why would it surprise you that, in a blockade related to war, items that could very well provide tools for propaganda might be prohibited?

I see that many necessities are permitted. I see that many items of convenience, or mere comfort, or items which could be used as components of weaponry are banned.

Odd, when we went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq, I don't remember us taking away newspapers and chocolate and stuff to repair homes. Maybe you can point out to me where we did that?

I see many items that have no point of being banned other than to make people suffer. It has nothing to do with safety.

 

[Liability]

Why would it surprise you that, in a blockade related to war, items that could very well provide tools for propaganda might be prohibited?

I see that many necessities are permitted. I see that many items of convenience, or mere comfort, or items which could be used as components of weaponry are banned.

Odd, when we went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq, I don't remember us taking away newspapers and chocolate and stuff to repair homes. Maybe you can point out to me where we did that?

I see many items that have no point of being banned other than to make people suffer. It has nothing to do with safety.

We liberated Iraq. I cannot fathom why we'd blockade them.

That's probably just me.

 

[Modbert]

We liberated Iraq. I cannot fathom why we'd blockade them.

That's probably just me.

Odd, I don't see you're answer for Afghanistan in that post. Maybe my eyesight is not good as it use to be. Also, we could just have easily banned newspapers in Iraq in order to make sure there was no propaganda going around about the troops. That's just using your line of logic however.

 

[tommywho70x]

The supposedly peaceful protesters are solely to blame for any and all deaths. They CHOSE to attack armed men with sticks and tried to seize their weapons. THEY alone are responsible for every death.

i am morally opposed to all people who will fight to the death for whatever the reasoning or justification.

in armed conflict both sides are wrong.

the side that is more wrong is the side that first opened fire.

i am a veteran of almost 50 years of non-violent civil disobedience. more than once, i have allowed myself to be the only one beaten and arrested to prevent a riot that would have had many more casualties and/or huge amounts of property damage. i have not seen the video yet, but several reports i read stated that the people on the vessels opened fire on the israelis.

the first mention of boarding was in the threads here. since i don't have a clear picture of the sequence of action yet, i'll withhold commentary on that.

i am not competent to express graphically enough how appalling this is.

if those ships indeed have a humanitarian cargo aboard, preventing them from docking is a shanda and anathema to the moral values of the hebrew people.

if there were armed mercenaries aboard vessels broadcasting a humanitarian mission, that is even more shameful.

i am most ashamed for my people that there exist such loathesome creatures that would cheer this on in the name of the god of my parents and my parent's parents.

pity the fool who is beyond redemption.

on a lighter side for the military mavens with a sense of humor: why are they called terrorists when they are the enemy and mercenaries when they work for us?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why would some fool send armed retards out to attack a civilian ship in international waters?

Because they have a legal right to board and inspect any ship entering their territorial waters. Every country with any territorial waters claims this right, and no one but an imbecile would try to claim Israel was legally in the wrong to do so.

Are you an imbecile?

They were in international waters and were not going to Israel.

That certainly answered my question.

 

[germanguy]

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.
The only country in which the people decide who governs and who not.
As my country shares a distinct history with the people of Israel, I am more than reluctant to take a side in this.

Notwithstanding, I feel more and more helpless and frustrated. The current government is not acting wise or in any way clever (not that some of those people on these boats have been more clever).

I feel sad for the lives lost for nothing, I feel sad for the people in Gaza, for which these people died and I feel sad for the Israelis, who need to kill to safeguard their country.

This whole conflict is a total mess and I can not see, that even a certain amount og good will on both sides would help to solve it. An endless circle of violence.

ze germanguy

 

[blu]

obama could save his whole, currently shit presidency by siding with turkey and publicly condemning israel.

 

[The Rabbi]

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.
The only country in which the people decide who governs and who not.
As my country shares a distinct history with the people of Israel, I am more than reluctant to take a side in this.

Notwithstanding, I feel more and more helpless and frustrated. The current government is not acting wise or in any way clever (not that some of those people on these boats have been more clever).

I feel sad for the lives lost for nothing, I feel sad for the people in Gaza, for which these people died and I feel sad for the Israelis, who need to kill to safeguard their country.

This whole conflict is a total mess and I can not see, that even a certain amount og good will on both sides would help to solve it. An endless circle of violence.

ze germanguy

I dont see why you are conflicted.
Germans are a sick people. Their Nazi experience so warped their perception of good and bad that they cannot see either. They cannot express patriotism, for example, without being reminded of Nazism and crowds in Nuremberg. And they cannot see the necessity of engaging in armed conflict to keep peace. Any armed conflict must be bad and those engaging in it immoral. It is a sick perspective.
Israel certainly has the right to defend itself. It certainly has the right to enforce a blockade on weapons going into an area which has been a hotbed of violence against Israeli citizens.
There is no "circle of violence." THis is a made up lie by certain weenies who cannot distinguish between good and bad. There is the Palestinians acting badly and making poor decisions and there is the Israelis responding to and trying to end those actions. That is not a circle of violence any more than WW2 was.
I feel bad for the German people. They will be the only people in history to loathe themselves out of existence. This is a shame since G-d has instilled a particular genius in Germans that has benefitted the world many times over.

 

[The Rabbi]

obama could save his whole, currently shit presidency by siding with turkey and publicly condemning israel.

What would that do, other than further alienate Israel and appear to be the ass kissing of Muslims that he is famous for?

 

[blu]

obama could save his whole, currently shit presidency by siding with turkey and publicly condemning israel.

What would that do, other than further alienate Israel and appear to be the ass kissing of Muslims that he is famous for?

show israel that they no longer have a free pass

 

[Hollybaere]

Except among the brain dead conspiracy theorist lefty Pali-lovers.

How Israel Created Hamas
January 27, 2009



By ANDREW HIGGINS
Moshav Tekuma, Israel

Surveying the wreckage of a neighbor’s bungalow hit by a Palestinian rocket, retired Israeli official Avner Cohen traces the missile’s trajectory back to an “enormous, stupid mistake” made 30 years ago.

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel’s destruction.

Instead of trying to curb Gaza’s Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with “Yassins,” primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric.

How Israel Created Hamas Pak Alert Press

So much for your "myth"!!

So much for your misbegotten reading comprehension.

Tolerating an organization -- even USING it to some extent -- is NOT the same as "creating" it.

Words have reason.

You don't.

Would Hamas be what it is today without Israel's help?? Which part of the word "NO" do you not understand?

 

[tommywho70x]

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.
The only country in which the people decide who governs and who not.
As my country shares a distinct history with the people of Israel, I am more than reluctant to take a side in this.

Notwithstanding, I feel more and more helpless and frustrated. The current government is not acting wise or in any way clever (not that some of those people on these boats have been more clever).

I feel sad for the lives lost for nothing, I feel sad for the people in Gaza, for which these people died and I feel sad for the Israelis, who need to kill to safeguard their country.

This whole conflict is a total mess and I can not see, that even a certain amount og good will on both sides would help to solve it. An endless circle of violence.

ze germanguy

I dont see why you are conflicted.
Germans are a sick people. Their Nazi experience so warped their perception of good and bad that they cannot see either. They cannot express patriotism, for example, without being reminded of Nazism and crowds in Nuremberg. And they cannot see the necessity of engaging in armed conflict to keep peace. Any armed conflict must be bad and those engaging in it immoral. It is a sick perspective.
Israel certainly has the right to defend itself. It certainly has the right to enforce a blockade on weapons going into an area which has been a hotbed of violence against Israeli citizens.
There is no "circle of violence." THis is a made up lie by certain weenies who cannot distinguish between good and bad. There is the Palestinians acting badly and making poor decisions and there is the Israelis responding to and trying to end those actions. That is not a circle of violence any more than WW2 was.
I feel bad for the German people. They will be the only people in history to loathe themselves out of existence. This is a shame since G-d has instilled a particular genius in Germans that has benefitted the world many times over.

bravo, way to parlay the expression of pain and helplessness of someone who is either very young or aging into an opportunity to spew the partisan hack palaver.

not all germans are sick people; only the warmongers and those that willingly support their imperialist mayhem.

the same is true of american people, israeli people and palestinian people.

 

[CMike]

It's a huge PR photo op.

Israel told Turkey not to send the ships in. Turkey tried to force the ships from the terrorists into Israel's land. Israel tried to stop them, they didn't stop.

Then when Israeli commandos went on the ship, they attacked them, and used their guns against them.

And yet, their the victims

If they truely wanted to send aid, they could have docked in the port of Ashdod, Tel-Aviv. It would have been unloaded and sent there, but they wanted to stage their huge propoganda event.

 

[The Rabbi]

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.
The only country in which the people decide who governs and who not.
As my country shares a distinct history with the people of Israel, I am more than reluctant to take a side in this.

Notwithstanding, I feel more and more helpless and frustrated. The current government is not acting wise or in any way clever (not that some of those people on these boats have been more clever).

I feel sad for the lives lost for nothing, I feel sad for the people in Gaza, for which these people died and I feel sad for the Israelis, who need to kill to safeguard their country.

This whole conflict is a total mess and I can not see, that even a certain amount og good will on both sides would help to solve it. An endless circle of violence.

ze germanguy

I dont see why you are conflicted.
Germans are a sick people. Their Nazi experience so warped their perception of good and bad that they cannot see either. They cannot express patriotism, for example, without being reminded of Nazism and crowds in Nuremberg. And they cannot see the necessity of engaging in armed conflict to keep peace. Any armed conflict must be bad and those engaging in it immoral. It is a sick perspective.
Israel certainly has the right to defend itself. It certainly has the right to enforce a blockade on weapons going into an area which has been a hotbed of violence against Israeli citizens.
There is no "circle of violence." THis is a made up lie by certain weenies who cannot distinguish between good and bad. There is the Palestinians acting badly and making poor decisions and there is the Israelis responding to and trying to end those actions. That is not a circle of violence any more than WW2 was.
I feel bad for the German people. They will be the only people in history to loathe themselves out of existence. This is a shame since G-d has instilled a particular genius in Germans that has benefitted the world many times over.

bravo, way to parlay the expression of pain and helplessness of someone who is either very young or aging into an opportunity to spew the partisan hack palaver.

not all germans are sick people; only the warmongers and those that willingly support their imperialist mayhem.

the same is true of american people, israeli people and palestinian people.

That was so far above your head it is no wonder you cannot fathom a word I wrote.

 

[tommywho70x]

It's a huge PR photo op.

Israel told Turkey not to send the ships in. Turkey tried to force the ships from the terrorists into Israel's land. Israel tried to stop them, they didn't stop.

Then when Israeli commandos went on the ship, they attacked them, and used their guns against them.

And yet, their the victims

If they truely wanted to send aid, they could have docked in the port of Ashdod, Tel-Aviv. It would have been unloaded and sent there, but they wanted to stage their huge propoganda event.

i still haven't been able to see the video yet and i haven't been able to sort a few things out. i'm kinda busy doing other things and i'm outdoors and can just barely use the browser because of that big texas sun.

am i reading correctly in your posts and a few others that the israelis attempted to board the vessel and they were resisted with improvised weapons or were there firearms aboard the craft before the israelis got there?

its unclear in some of the text reports and i got the impression from one report that the crew fired on the boarding party first. was that because they already had firearms aboard or did it get out of hand when they were able to disarm some of the boarders?