Gay Rights

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Indiana Oracle, Mar 25, 2009.

  1. Indiana Oracle
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    Indiana Oracle The Truth is Hard to Find

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    Just finished commenting in another forum on this topic. Many participants were highly exercised and wildly misinformed in some instances.

    Here is my view which I believe is shared by many people in flyover country.

    • Gays are no more special in our society than anyone else and should not be elevated beyond that.
    • American society has been tolerant of gays for a very long time and still is; few rational people are carrying any guilt around with them on this. In contrast it is the policy of many governments, past and present, in the world to confine and even execute gays.
    • Marriage in our society and across the globe is the formalization of a relationship in support of child rearing. If it makes gays feel better about themselves to be “married”, fine. But neither side of that arguement has any right to impose their viewpoint on any one, any group, or upon society as a whole.
     
  2. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    Your opinion is interesting... however, your third point, at least, sets forth an incorrect basic premise. Marriage is not a relationship in "support of child rearing". Marriage is a relationship established by the state to create and define property rights and various other rights and obligations, none of which necessarily have anything to do with childrearing. Disposition of child support and custody issues generally does not occur until the TERMINATION of the marital relationship.

    As far as tolerance of gays, you might be right. I'd suspect that depends on where one lives and that someone like Matthew Shepard would have disagreed strongly.

    Finally, giving someone equal rights no more elevates them than ending "separate but equal" education "elevated" blacks.
     
  3. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    I think the fundamental problem here is that straight religious types have been propagandized to believe that homosexuals want special rights.

    If you are a heterosexual, you can marry the person you love and desire to be with, as long as that person is a consenting adult, and each state will recognize the legitimacy of the marriage. You will receive all the rights and benefits which come with the institution of marriage, including social, unofficial, recognition as a married couple. You will enjoy your status as an US citizen.

    If you are heterosexual, you can marry someone who you don't love and desire to be with, as long as that person is a consenting adult, and receive none of the same rights, benefits, and status as all other US citizens unless you are in Hawii or Massachusetts. And you won't be happily married.

    If you are a homosexual, you can't marry the person you love and desire to be with, even if that person is a consenting adult, and receive all of the same rights and benefits which come with the institution of marriage, which effectively lowers you to the unofficial status as a second class citizen.

    If you are a homosexual, you can marry someone who you don't love and desire to be with, as long as that person is a consenting adult, and receive all of the same rights, benefits, and status as all other American citizens. But you won't be happily married.

    So, for there to be equal rights and status, which means equality, this is the way it should be:

    If you are a US citizen, you should be able to marry the person you love and desire to be with, as long as that person is a consenting adult, and enjoy all of the rights, benefits and status that are legally extended to those who enter into the institution of marriage, and which are recognized by every state in the US.

    So it isn't special rights. And it doesn't change the definition of marriage. It just expands the legal definition of marriage. Churches who don't wish to marry or accept homosexual members won't be forced to.

    And no one will be able to legally marry an animal, a minor, or someone who is legally mentally incapacitated.

    And yes, we should legalize polygamy. Its none of our business.
     
  4. glockmail
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    glockmail BANNED

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    All the gay marriage "rights" can be accomplished with existing laws and power-of-attorney agreements. The gays are committed to tearing down societal morality so they want to shove gay marriage down our throats.
     
  5. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    Why do homosexuals want to tear down societal morality? Because Satan is their master?

    How do they shove gay marriage down your throat? By making you have a gay wedding?

    C'mon, Glock. You just sound like a homophobic Christian fundamentalist. Clint ain't afraid of those candy-asses.
     
  6. Newby
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    Newby Does it get any better? Supporting Member

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    You didn't address his comments however. They can all be legally acheived w/o a 'marriage' just as he said, so what's the big deal about calling it 'marriage' then if there isn't any more to it than legal issues?
     
  7. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    Because they wouldn't have the same status as heterosexual US citizens because they wouldn't be able to marry and have the same rights and benefits as heterosexual married couples without going beyond and getting power of attorney. And would they still get all of the tax benefits? Would that still get them all of the same rights and benefits? Does power of attorney necessarily get them everything heterosexual married couples get?

    Its not just about the rights and benefits, its about the equal status.
     
  8. glockmail
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    I don't claim to know the reasoning behind their motives but when you look at how easy their issues can be resolved without offending a huge majority of people, especially religious people, the motive that I theorized is the most logical.
     
  9. glockmail
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    You can't legislate "status".
     
  10. Newby
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    Newby Does it get any better? Supporting Member

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    Exactly, they want validation that society accepts who and what they are, and that cannot be legislated or forced on anyone.
     
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