"Gay rights" is a misnomer

[Cecilie1200]

Gay couples do not have the right to file joint tax returns. They may not be able to visit their spouse in the hospital or make medical decisions if the spouse is incapable. Gay people do not have the right to their spouse's Social Security or retirement. The list goes on and on.

The biggest difference is that gay people cannot serve in the military. Don't ask, don't tell is a joke. How can gay people be considered citizens of this country when they cannot have the honor of serving our military and our country?

The right to file a joint tax return is a tax privilege, not a civil and inalienable right. They are actually able to see their spouses in the hospital, so that's an erroneous example. Social Security and access to retirement: see above re: privileges not civil rights.

Gay people can't serve "openly" in the military. That's not a civil right, either, though.



I hate soundbites, and this one doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Your rights only exist to the extent they are enforced by the Courts and by the government.

And if the rights of gay people are not enforced, they do not exist.

So what don't *you* get?

What are you talking about?

Some people don't understand nuance within the law, and wouldn't recognize a right if it slapped them in the face.

Filing joint taxes is not a right.

And the whole "hospital scenario" has probably happened once or twice, before "Philadelphia" became a hit, and doesn't happen anymore. It's a fantasy.

It may still happen once or twice, if someone is in intensive care and was dumb enough not to have a living will, so that his disapproving parents became his medical executors. Personally, I have no sympathy for anyone that stupid and careless, though.

 

[Cecilie1200]

With regards to DADT, I'm still waiting on the big benefit that the military will have by allowing gays to serve openly. I understand personal satisfaction for gays in letting people know they're gay, but...isn't the military supposed to be about conformity and doing what's good for your fellow soldiers? This just seems like agenda pushing with little analysis, and gays vying for personal glory in a situation where that's supposed to be secondary.

Leftists have a really hard time understanding that not everything in life is about their own personal happiness and self-fulfillment. They genuinely believe that the sun rises and sets in their belly buttons.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Gay couples do not have the right to file joint tax returns. They may not be able to visit their spouse in the hospital or make medical decisions if the spouse is incapable. Gay people do not have the right to their spouse's Social Security or retirement. The list goes on and on.

The biggest difference is that gay people cannot serve in the military. Don't ask, don't tell is a joke. How can gay people be considered citizens of this country when they cannot have the honor of serving our military and our country?

The right to file a joint tax return is a tax privilege, not a civil and inalienable right. They are actually able to see their spouses in the hospital, so that's an erroneous example. Social Security and access to retirement: see above re: privileges not civil rights.

Gay people can't serve "openly" in the military. That's not a civil right, either, though.



I hate soundbites, and this one doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Your rights only exist to the extent they are enforced by the Courts and by the government.

And if the rights of gay people are not enforced, they do not exist.

So what don't *you* get?

What are you talking about?

It's about equality under the law. The law allows special tax privileges to married couples,

So single people are ALSO being discriminated against?

the law provides social security benefits to married couples,

Last I heard, Social Security benefits had been officially declared NOT a right.

the law provides automatic health benefits for spouses,

Wrong. Health benefits are provided by the employer, not the law, and it is up to the employer to decide how it defines "family members", as it should be, since it's their money. Increasing numbers of employers, such as The Disney Co., provide benefits to homosexual couples and domestic partnerships.

the law provides automatic property & inheritance rights by virtue of marital status alone,

And if you believe that crap, you've never tried to deal with an inheritance with no written will. Not only does it take a damned fool to assume a marriage license will take care of this, but this is a problem easily rectified by $50 to purchase a set of will preparation forms at your local bookstore.

the law provides health visitation by virtue of marital status alone. Homosexuals couples are denied this special status.

Again, the law doesn't HAVE to provide health visitation, because hospitals don't have a maitre'd and a velvet rope. Also, if this were really as simple as just having a marriage license, we wouldn't have had all the sound and fury about living wills that we've had over the last few years. And like the inheritance thing, it's a problem easily solved with $50 and a legal form you can purchase at any bookstore.

Granted, inheritance & property rights and hospital visitation can become "equal" for homosexuals by virtue of hiring a lawyer to make things equal, which costs money, therefore not really "equal" status.

Sure it is, because it's a good idea for everyone anyway, and even hetero couples are advised to do so rather than simply depending on the law to get it right when they aren't available to state their wishes.

If your goal here is to have the right to be a lazy, cheap dumbass who tries to just skate on "I have a marriage license", you're not going to get a lot of sympathy.

It's true homosexual civil rights are already protected, but "equality under the law" does not exist for these couples.

Sure it does. The law is applied equally to them. If they meet the requirements for these privileges and recognitions, they get them. If they don't, they don't.

You could find a Unitarian Universalist Church to "marry" a homosexual couple even if the state does not legally recognize the marriage. The states do not deny their "right", but it's a religious ceremony and nothing else.

Ahhh. So the relationship only exists if society at large recognizes it? Interesting.

In those states where gay marriage (or civil union) IS recognized by the state, the inheritance rights and the visitation equality are there, the health care coverage is there, but still no social security is provided and that is still inequality under the law.

Only if you can prove that heterosexuals have the ability to get Social Security benefits for people of the same sex.

 

[TheNilvarg]

There is no right that is being violated here. Your rights cannot be revoked based on the way you were born. You're a human being with a penis, opposite to the half of human beings with vaginas. You have the right to enter a sacred union with someone of the opposite gender. You are not given additional rights above and beyond that of the rest of the populace just because you've chosen to live your life in a particular unnatural way.

What additional rights do you want to give to veterans? Their lifestyle choice actually benefits this country. A homosexuals' choice does not benefit anything but his own reprehensible, deviant fetish.

 

[Your Overlord]

the argument is that the Equal Protection clause of the 14th ammendment allows all rights to be garunteed equally to all citizens and judicial ruling set a prescident that mairrage was a right and thus cannot be denied to any citizen.
I feel it's an ambiguous clause and the ruling about marriage was specificly regarding opposite sex couples- the laws should be clarified one way or the other.

 

[krotchdog]

1+1=2, 1+2=3, get it, man and man does not equal man and woman, they are two different things and law cannot change that.

Not all gays are for gay marriage.

Gays can do whatever they like, in San Fransicko and Palm Springs.

Gays in the military, I am for that one, at least we should really try it. I propose the Pink Battalion, an all gay battalion of front line of pink combat troops. How else can we actually have the information to know if they are really an effective fighting unit or if they will surrender to the first foriegn enemy that has a bigger gun then they do.

The people in this thread who say gays should be in the military, what are you basing your opinion on. How you feel. Seriously, post something other than its a right or they do just a good job. Name some of your gay military heros, tell us about there commands.

There is much more to being in the military than just pointing your gun straight.

 

[KittenKoder]

1+1=2, 1+2=3, get it, man and man does not equal man and woman, they are two different things and law cannot change that.

Not all gays are for gay marriage.

Gays can do whatever they like, in San Fransicko and Palm Springs.

Gays in the military, I am for that one, at least we should really try it. I propose the Pink Battalion, an all gay battalion of front line of pink combat troops. How else can we actually have the information to know if they are really an effective fighting unit or if they will surrender to the first foriegn enemy that has a bigger gun then they do.

The people in this thread who say gays should be in the military, what are you basing your opinion on. How you feel. Seriously, post something other than its a right or they do just a good job. Name some of your gay military heros, tell us about there commands.

There is much more to being in the military than just pointing your gun straight.

90% of the Greek and Roman military ... look it up.

 

[krotchdog]

Thanks, I looked it up, there is no Roman nor Greek military that is a world power, think before you leap.

 

[manu1959]

well....

since they can't legally marry the person they love and want to spend the rest of their lives with.....

as such they are denied all the same rights that straight married couples have.......

they can work around this and create living wills and power of attorney documents etc....to obtain all those rights.....

 

[KittenKoder]

Thanks, I looked it up, there is no Roman nor Greek military that is a world power, think before you leap.

History dude, history. Most of their militaries practiced homosexual behavior, especially while training, Sparta was one of the most well known of these. They were also the most powerful militaries of their times.

 

[krotchdog]

Manu1959, I agree with your premise but that said they are not creating a "Right" by excercising thier right to create a Will or Power of Attorney. The right simply exsists.