Gay Conservatives?

[jillian]

What will you hypocrites say? You know ... you that think it's okay to be a gay liberal but bash gay conservatives at every mention?

Any other time you're defending gays to the death ...

Don't know about midcan5, but I'll reiterate. You have to be self-destructive to be a gay Republican (as opposed to gay conservative). Or should black people put the KKK in power? Should the Israeli's root for Hamas?

And no, I'm not likening repubs to the KKK, but if your "party" is using what you are as a wedge issue, and saying that there should be a constitutional amendment against you having a family life, it's time to have a new party. Or should people vote to be discriminated against?

That isn't attacking gays. I always think people who vote against their own self-interest are just plain stupid.

 

[Gunny]

Don't know about midcan5, but I'll reiterate. You have to be self-destructive to be a gay Republican (as opposed to gay conservative). Or should black people put the KKK in power? Should the Israeli's root for Hamas?

And no, I'm not likening repubs to the KKK, but if your "party" is using what you are as a wedge issue, and saying that there should be a constitutional amendment against you having a family life, it's time to have a new party. Or should people vote to be discriminated against?

That isn't attacking gays. I always think people who vote against their own self-interest are just plain stupid.

I disagree with the premise of your argument. Is it self-destructive for someone who engages in certain behavior to realize that there's something wrong with that behavior?

So if I smoke for I'm all for controlled smoking laws because it is for the better benefit of society, that's self-destructive? I don't agree.

Then there's the fact that being gay and being conservative are not mutually exclusive. But because the Dems support the fringe-left flaming gay movement they should forget all poitical idealism and support the party that caters solely to their sexual behavior? I don't see that one, either.

I have no problem with a gay conservative/Republican who votes against laws such as "gay marriage" laws. They're put in office to do a job and represent the will of their constituents, not promote their own personal agendas.

 

[jillian]

I disagree with the premise of your argument. Is it self-destructive for someone who engages in certain behavior to realize that there's something wrong with that behavior?

For someone gay to be that self-hating, yes... there's something wrong with it and they need therapy. Same as in the other examples I gave.

So if I smoke for I'm all for controlled smoking laws because it is for the better benefit of society, that's self-destructive? I don't agree.

So "controlled smoking" is like homosexuality?

Then there's the fact that being gay and being conservative are not mutually exclusive.

I agree. But republicanism and homosexuality are. They need to find a different party.

But because the Dems support the fringe-left flaming gay movement they should forget all poitical idealism and support the party that caters solely to their sexual behavior? I don't see that one, either.

It's only that if you mischaracterize the democratic position. I'm sure Shogun would think that of anti-Israel Jews. Yes?

I have no problem with a gay conservative/Republican who votes against laws such as "gay marriage" laws. They're put in office to do a job and represent the will of their constituents, not promote their own personal agendas.

If the party platform of your own party includes discrimination against you... yes, you have to be an idiot to support them. Sorry. We're a representative republic, you don't put people in office who vote against your self-interest.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

For someone gay to be that self-hating, yes... there's something wrong with it and they need therapy. Same as in the other examples I gave.



So "controlled smoking" is like homosexuality?



I agree. But republicanism and homosexuality are. They need to find a different party.




It's only that if you mischaracterize the democratic position. I'm sure Shogun would think that of anti-Israel Jews. Yes?



If the party platform of your own party includes discrimination against you... yes, you have to be an idiot to support them. Sorry. We're a representative republic, you don't put people in office who vote against your self-interest.

It is not discrimination to deny gays marriage. It is not discrimination to acknowledge that all the laws and protections of this Government already apply to gays and they need no "special" protection.

 

[Diuretic]

Don't know about midcan5, but I'll reiterate. You have to be self-destructive to be a gay Republican (as opposed to gay conservative). Or should black people put the KKK in power? Should the Israeli's root for Hamas?

And no, I'm not likening repubs to the KKK, but if your "party" is using what you are as a wedge issue, and saying that there should be a constitutional amendment against you having a family life, it's time to have a new party. Or should people vote to be discriminated against?

That isn't attacking gays. I always think people who vote against their own self-interest are just plain stupid.

Damn right! But people do it all the time, vote against their own self-interest I mean. False consciousness isn't just about economics.

 

[midcan5]

Don't know about midcan5, but I'll reiterate. You have to be self-destructive to be a gay Republican (as opposed to gay conservative). Or should black people put the KKK in power? Should the Israeli's root for Hamas?

That isn't attacking gays. I always think people who vote against their own self-interest are just plain stupid.

Jillian, exactly. I love how GunnyL has these ambivalent feelings towards gay but then beats up those he considers foes. Notice he doesn't really approve of them, he just wants to be contrary.

If your party's major policy includes measures that are anti gay and you are gay I think that is the height of hypocrisy. Especially those who even vote that way, least they could do is hide in the bathroom while the voting took place.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Log_Cabin_Republicans

 

[mattskramer]

Jillian, exactly. I love how GunnyL has these ambivalent feelings towards gay but then beats up those he considers foes. Notice he doesn't really approve of them, he just wants to be contrary.

If your party's major policy includes measures that are anti gay and you are gay I think that is the height of hypocrisy. Especially those who even vote that way, least they could do is hide in the bathroom while the voting took place.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Log_Cabin_Republicans

It is not hypocritical to prefer one party to another but want to improve the party that you prefer. I think that America is a great nation but I think that it could be even better. What is hypocritical about that? I prefer (only slightly) the Republican Party to the Democrat party. There are some things that I don’t like about the Republican Party. Yet, since I still prefer it to the Democrat Party (there are more things that I don’t like about the Democrat party.) I will likely vote Republican. Again, where is the hypocrisy?

It looks to me as though, all things considered, Log Cabin Republicans, still prefer the Republican Party over the Democrat Party even though the Republican Party seems to be more opposed to issues such as gay marriage. The positives of the Republican party (even with the negative concerning gay marriage outweighs the Positives of the Democrat Party. Where is the hypocrisy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log_Cabin_Republicans

 

[Shogun]

 

[mattskramer]

Uh. Okay. I’m sorry but you totally lost me. Who is he and what does he have to do with this thread?

 

[Shogun]

im sure someone will let you know.


until then... enjoy some articles on Lincoln.

The gay Lincoln controversy
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2005/01/16/the_gay_lincoln_controversy/

Was Lincoln gay?
http://www.salon.com/books/it/1999/04/30/lincoln/

Was Lincoln Gay?
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F05E5D61439F93AA35752C0A9639C8B63

Book Questions Abraham Lincoln's Sexuality
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20041206/lincoln.html

"I will tell you a Joke about Jewel and Mary
It is neither a Joke nor a Story
For Rubin and Charles has married two girls
But Billy has married a boy
The girlies he had tried on every Side
But none could he get to agree
All was in vain he went home again
And since that is married to Natty
So Billy and Natty agreed very well
And mama's well pleased at the match
The egg it is laid but Natty's afraid
The Shell is So Soft that it never will hatch
But Betsy she said you Cursed bald head
My Suitor you never Can be
Beside your low crotch proclaims you a botch
And that never Can serve for me"

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You are aware of course mainstream democrats are AGAINST Gay marriages also? FEW in either party are for that. There was a consensus to make civil Unions binding and for all intents and purposes the same, but the activist gays had a fit and that was dropped.

 

[mattskramer]

You are aware of course mainstream democrats are AGAINST Gay marriages also? FEW in either party are for that. There was a consensus to make civil Unions binding and for all intents and purposes the same, but the activist gays had a fit and that was dropped.

Take a survey concerning gay issues. Include a variety of questions. Give the survey to Democrats and Republicans. Though, as a whole, both Democrats and Republicans may be against gay marriage, I think that you will find that Democrats would be more lenient toward civil unions and other “gay issues” than would Republicans. Of course that is not to say that Democrats, as a whole, endorse gay marriage.

There is a lot of assumption and mind reading in your piece. Where is the legislation that considered making civil unions binding? Where are the details and specifics in your piece? Where is the official reason given why most legislatures for it not passing? I doubt that there ever was consensus. Even if there were consensus, it would not have changed do to over-reactionary politicians disliking the antics made by some gays.

 

[Shogun]

ANOTHER GOP Lawmaker Resigns Amid Sex Scandal

http://www.kirotv.com/news/14473628/detail.html

 

[Abelian Sea]

No political party is going to be 100% in your self-interest, or coincide exactly with all of your goals and values.

If you're going to join/support a party, you choose the one that you think is better on balance.

If you're gay and conservative, you may well find yourself in a position where the Republican party has much more of a chance of advancing most of your values and interests, or the values and interests that are most important to you. This won't include a legally recognized formal union between you and your significant other, but it might include enough other things that you'd usually want to vote Republican rather than Democrat.

It's a tricky situation. Either party would be compromise for you. So it comes down a matter of priorities, and broad social and legal acceptance of one's sexual conduct is not on the top of everyone's list.

 

[Gunny]

For someone gay to be that self-hating, yes... there's something wrong with it and they need therapy. Same as in the other examples I gave.



So "controlled smoking" is like homosexuality?



I agree. But republicanism and homosexuality are. They need to find a different party.




It's only that if you mischaracterize the democratic position. I'm sure Shogun would think that of anti-Israel Jews. Yes?



If the party platform of your own party includes discrimination against you... yes, you have to be an idiot to support them. Sorry. We're a representative republic, you don't put people in office who vote against your self-interest.

I'll get back to you on this. Have dumb shit to do at the moment.

 

[Nevadamedic]

You are aware of course mainstream democrats are AGAINST Gay marriages also? FEW in either party are for that. There was a consensus to make civil Unions binding and for all intents and purposes the same, but the activist gays had a fit and that was dropped.

That's not true, several leading Democrats voted infavor of Gay Marriage including certain Presidential Candidates one being Senator Chris Dodd.

 

[midcan5]

Sho, is that Dave Chappelle? but not sure what it means.

Again it is hypocritical to criticize what you are at heart. It also says you don't have the maturity to come out of that dark deep closet.

 

[Gunny]

Sho, is that Dave Chappelle? but not sure what it means.

Again it is hypocritical to criticize what you are at heart. It also says you don't have the maturity to come out of that dark deep closet.

It's hypocritical to play the knight in shining armor for all things gay except gays who don't buy your particular brand of politics. You're completely ignoring the basic premise of the opposing argument.

I would say the immature one would be the one that believes they should completely sell out their values and vote against them for nothing more than their sexual behavior.

 

[Toro]

The more gay conservatives, the better.

 

[Gunny]

For someone gay to be that self-hating, yes... there's something wrong with it and they need therapy. Same as in the other examples I gave.

I disagree. One does not have to be "self-hating" to be homosexual AND have possess conservative values politically. You're arguing "throwing the baby out with the bathwater."

So "controlled smoking" is like homosexuality?

Let's don't play semantics here. I used the correlation as an example. As far as being considered abnormal behavior, they are comparable.

I agree. But republicanism and homosexuality are. They need to find a different party.

There is no other party. That's like saying because I support natural conservation I should just vote Dem and forget every other conservative value I possess. It's not a black-or-white only argument.

It's only that if you mischaracterize the democratic position. I'm sure Shogun would think that of anti-Israel Jews. Yes?

I have mischaracterized nothing. Logically, I can see a person being Jewish and also against the level of support the US provides Israel. I don't consider that contradictory at all.

I WOULD consider it illogical for them to vote solely on that one issue.

If the party platform of your own party includes discrimination against you... yes, you have to be an idiot to support them. Sorry. We're a representative republic, you don't put people in office who vote against your self-interest.

Speaking of mischaracterization, the GOP platform doesn't include discrimination against gays. It includes not creating legislation that caters solely to aberrant sexual behavior.

I completely disagree with your last statement. We are a representative republic that is not represented by either political party. Every one of us picks and chooses the lesser of two evils, or votes one way to ensure the other party's candidate doesn't get in.

Anyone who votes for a person or party solely over one issue is the person I think needs therapy, and probably some education as well.