Game Changers

Blues Man

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2016
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I just watched Game Changers, a documentary on Netflix.

Now I know this is going to be a contentious topic.

The main thrust of the movie is that diet can not only halt but reverse diseases like Type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease, autoimmune diseases etc.

IMO the conclusions are valid.

So if it could be proven to you that a plant based whole food diet would reduce or eliminate your risk of heart attack, stroke, cancer, normalize blood pressure and add years to your life would you change the way you eat?
 
If God did not want us to eat meat, he would not make it taste so good
 
If God did not want us to eat meat, he would not make it taste so good

I thought you didn't believe in god.

FYI fruit, veg and grains taste good too

Tastes good if you are a monkey

We are apes
I thought you believed in evolution.

But really answer the question.

If it was proven that a whole food plant based diet could not only halt but reverse coronary artery disease, the number one killer in the country by the way, would you change your diet?
 
I just watched Game Changers, a documentary on Netflix.

Now I know this is going to be a contentious topic.

The main thrust of the movie is that diet can not only halt but reverse diseases like Type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease, autoimmune diseases etc.

IMO the conclusions are valid.


So if it could be proven to you that a plant based whole food diet would reduce or eliminate your risk of heart attack, stroke, cancer, normalize blood pressure and add years to your life would you change the way you eat?

con·fir·ma·tion bi·as
noun
noun: confirmation bias
the tendency to interpret evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.

Heck anyone can make a documentary proving, say, the sky is truly pink, put it on Netflix or any other outlet and someone(s) will believe it.
Basically take documentaries with at minimum a grain of salt, a whole salt mine if the documentary is attempting to "prove something" by people who want that something proven.............
 
I just watched Game Changers, a documentary on Netflix.

Now I know this is going to be a contentious topic.

The main thrust of the movie is that diet can not only halt but reverse diseases like Type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease, autoimmune diseases etc.

IMO the conclusions are valid.


So if it could be proven to you that a plant based whole food diet would reduce or eliminate your risk of heart attack, stroke, cancer, normalize blood pressure and add years to your life would you change the way you eat?

con·fir·ma·tion bi·as
noun
noun: confirmation bias
the tendency to interpret evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.

Heck anyone can make a documentary proving, say, the sky is truly pink, put it on Netflix or any other outlet and someone(s) will believe it.
Basically take documentaries with at minimum a grain of salt, a whole salt mine if the documentary is attempting to "prove something" by people who want that something proven.............

Wrong

I have been a meat eater my whole life.

But when the results of large scale studies, and decades of clinical results from several doctors all point to the fact that a whole food plant based diet can not only prevent but halt and reverse coronary artery disease and other diseases at what point do you stop denying the efficacy of such a diet?

And why do you assume I did no further research on my own and base my conclusion on only this one documentary?
 
Let me add to the above.

How do you know how a diet change will affect your blood pressure, cholesterol etc if you don't try it and compare all your health markers both before and after?

If enough people did try the change and presented their actual lab work results and that all of them saw a reduction of all the markers we look for at what point is it enough evidence for you?
 
I just watched Game Changers, a documentary on Netflix.

Now I know this is going to be a contentious topic.

The main thrust of the movie is that diet can not only halt but reverse diseases like Type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease, autoimmune diseases etc.

IMO the conclusions are valid.


So if it could be proven to you that a plant based whole food diet would reduce or eliminate your risk of heart attack, stroke, cancer, normalize blood pressure and add years to your life would you change the way you eat?

con·fir·ma·tion bi·as
noun
noun: confirmation bias
the tendency to interpret evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.

Heck anyone can make a documentary proving, say, the sky is truly pink, put it on Netflix or any other outlet and someone(s) will believe it.
Basically take documentaries with at minimum a grain of salt, a whole salt mine if the documentary is attempting to "prove something" by people who want that something proven.............

Wrong

I have been a meat eater my whole life.

But when the results of large scale studies, and decades of clinical results from several doctors all point to the fact that a whole food plant based diet can not only prevent but halt and reverse coronary artery disease and other diseases at what point do you stop denying the efficacy of such a diet?
Food science is considered the junk science of the scientific community and you're an idiot if you believe it. Besides it doesn't change the fact that the so called "documentary" is most likely presented in the manner the author(s) wanted it presented, to specifically "make their case".
Nutrition science

why food science is so bad - Google Search
 
Isn't meat the cause of our brains becoming larger, and smarter? More knowledgeable?

Maybe the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge and evil, is really meat???

Or maybe it's not!? :D
 
Let me add to the above.

How do you know how a diet change will affect your blood pressure, cholesterol etc if you don't try it and compare all your health markers both before and after?

If enough people did try the change and presented their actual lab work results and that all of them saw a reduction of all the markers we look for at what point is it enough evidence for you?
You're talking about the human body, individually complex, one of the most complex systems we know of. How nutrition affects us individually is connected to not only genetics but also age and lifestyle. In nutrition what's good for the goose is not always what's good for the gander.
An all plant based diet would be wonderful for some but potentially detrimental to others. Basically what has been discovered to be mostly true is: nutritional balance, moderation, portions and exercise. If anyone truly wishes to try an all plant based diet then be my guest but don't tout it as a panacea because some documentary that was put together in such a way to make that specific case said so.
 
I just watched Game Changers, a documentary on Netflix.

Now I know this is going to be a contentious topic.

The main thrust of the movie is that diet can not only halt but reverse diseases like Type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease, autoimmune diseases etc.

IMO the conclusions are valid.


So if it could be proven to you that a plant based whole food diet would reduce or eliminate your risk of heart attack, stroke, cancer, normalize blood pressure and add years to your life would you change the way you eat?

con·fir·ma·tion bi·as
noun
noun: confirmation bias
the tendency to interpret evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.

Heck anyone can make a documentary proving, say, the sky is truly pink, put it on Netflix or any other outlet and someone(s) will believe it.
Basically take documentaries with at minimum a grain of salt, a whole salt mine if the documentary is attempting to "prove something" by people who want that something proven.............

Wrong

I have been a meat eater my whole life.

But when the results of large scale studies, and decades of clinical results from several doctors all point to the fact that a whole food plant based diet can not only prevent but halt and reverse coronary artery disease and other diseases at what point do you stop denying the efficacy of such a diet?
Food science is considered the junk science of the scientific community and you're an idiot if you believe it. Besides it doesn't change the fact that the so called "documentary" is most likely presented in the manner the author(s) wanted it presented, to specifically "make their case".
Nutrition science

why food science is so bad - Google Search

This isn't food science

It's diet and the effects on the system of the body backed up by empirical, repeatable results.

And again you assume base my opinion on this one single documentary
 
Let me add to the above.

How do you know how a diet change will affect your blood pressure, cholesterol etc if you don't try it and compare all your health markers both before and after?

If enough people did try the change and presented their actual lab work results and that all of them saw a reduction of all the markers we look for at what point is it enough evidence for you?
You're talking about the human body, individually complex, one of the most complex systems we know of. How nutrition affects us individually is connected to not only genetics but also age and lifestyle. In nutrition what's good for the goose is not always what's good for the gander.
An all plant based diet would be wonderful for some but potentially detrimental to others. Basically what has been discovered to be mostly true is: nutritional balance, moderation, portions and exercise. If anyone truly wishes to try an all plant based diet then be my guest but don't tout it as a panacea because some documentary that was put together in such a way to make that specific case said so.

We are all far more alike than we are different.

If we all thought like you then why bother treating any illness or disease because if we're all so different it would be impossible right?

And give me some real life examples of a plant based diet being detrimental to health.

Think about it we eat animals that eat nothing but plants. What does an animal do to the plant matter that is so magical that we mere humans beings can't just eat the plants?
 
I just watched Game Changers, a documentary on Netflix.

Now I know this is going to be a contentious topic.

The main thrust of the movie is that diet can not only halt but reverse diseases like Type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease, autoimmune diseases etc.

IMO the conclusions are valid.

So if it could be proven to you that a plant based whole food diet would reduce or eliminate your risk of heart attack, stroke, cancer, normalize blood pressure and add years to your life would you change the way you eat?

I think there is a broader question/issue regarding diet and health. All reasonably intelligent people would agree that eating healthy will reduce the chances of suffering from many maladies.

However our current healthcare system ignores this fact, as does our federal government in general. Consider the fact that those people receiving food stamps (SNAP) are also the many of the same people receiving free healthcare, yet there are no restrictions (or direction) on the type of food that should be bought with the free money.

This is like giving a 6 year old child $100k to spend on their education (college fund) without monitoring or restricting how they money is spent. The child won’t ever get to college, just as the low income people continue to eat unhealthy foods and get free healthcare to treat problems that occur because of poor diet.
 
I just watched Game Changers, a documentary on Netflix.

Now I know this is going to be a contentious topic.

The main thrust of the movie is that diet can not only halt but reverse diseases like Type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease, autoimmune diseases etc.

IMO the conclusions are valid.

So if it could be proven to you that a plant based whole food diet would reduce or eliminate your risk of heart attack, stroke, cancer, normalize blood pressure and add years to your life would you change the way you eat?

I think there is a broader question/issue regarding diet and health. All reasonably intelligent people would agree that eating healthy will reduce the chances of suffering from many maladies.

However our current healthcare system ignores this fact, as does our federal government in general. Consider the fact that those people receiving food stamps (SNAP) are also the many of the same people receiving free healthcare, yet there are no restrictions (or direction) on the type of food that should be bought with the free money.

This is like giving a 6 year old child $100k to spend on their education (college fund) without monitoring or restricting how they money is spent. The child won’t ever get to college, just as the low income people continue to eat unhealthy foods and get free healthcare to treat problems that occur because of poor diet.

The problem is our government doesn't really care about our health.

The AMA doesn't either since their biggest supporters are the drug companies. Do you think the AMA would ever advocate a diet that would eliminate the need for statins like Lipitor knowing that Lipitor is the biggest profit maker for the drug companies?
 
Let me add to the above.

How do you know how a diet change will affect your blood pressure, cholesterol etc if you don't try it and compare all your health markers both before and after?

If enough people did try the change and presented their actual lab work results and that all of them saw a reduction of all the markers we look for at what point is it enough evidence for you?
You're talking about the human body, individually complex, one of the most complex systems we know of. How nutrition affects us individually is connected to not only genetics but also age and lifestyle. In nutrition what's good for the goose is not always what's good for the gander.
An all plant based diet would be wonderful for some but potentially detrimental to others. Basically what has been discovered to be mostly true is: nutritional balance, moderation, portions and exercise. If anyone truly wishes to try an all plant based diet then be my guest but don't tout it as a panacea because some documentary that was put together in such a way to make that specific case said so.

We are all far more alike than we are different.

If we all thought like you then why bother treating any illness or disease because if we're all so different it would be impossible right?

And give me some real life examples of a plant based diet being detrimental to health.

Think about it we eat animals that eat nothing but plants. What does an animal do to the plant matter that is so magical that we mere humans beings can't just eat the plants?
No we are not far more alike, each of us is genetically different though some groups are genetically "similar" withing those groups.
I didn't say medical science was bad, I said food (nutritional) science is heavily flawed. You're looking for black and white, either or, it doesn't exist in this realm of science so giving specifics would be as useless as trying to prove an all plant based diet would benefit all.
Read what I'm saying not what you think I'm saying.
 
I just watched Game Changers, a documentary on Netflix.

Now I know this is going to be a contentious topic.

The main thrust of the movie is that diet can not only halt but reverse diseases like Type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease, autoimmune diseases etc.

IMO the conclusions are valid.


So if it could be proven to you that a plant based whole food diet would reduce or eliminate your risk of heart attack, stroke, cancer, normalize blood pressure and add years to your life would you change the way you eat?

con·fir·ma·tion bi·as
noun
noun: confirmation bias
the tendency to interpret evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.

Heck anyone can make a documentary proving, say, the sky is truly pink, put it on Netflix or any other outlet and someone(s) will believe it.
Basically take documentaries with at minimum a grain of salt, a whole salt mine if the documentary is attempting to "prove something" by people who want that something proven.............

Wrong

I have been a meat eater my whole life.

But when the results of large scale studies, and decades of clinical results from several doctors all point to the fact that a whole food plant based diet can not only prevent but halt and reverse coronary artery disease and other diseases at what point do you stop denying the efficacy of such a diet?
Food science is considered the junk science of the scientific community and you're an idiot if you believe it. Besides it doesn't change the fact that the so called "documentary" is most likely presented in the manner the author(s) wanted it presented, to specifically "make their case".
Nutrition science

why food science is so bad - Google Search

This isn't food science

It's diet and the effects on the system of the body backed up by empirical, repeatable results.

And again you assume base my opinion on this one single documentary
Empirical, repeatable results within a relatively small sample size, think number of people in the world compared to number of test subjects. There in lies the problem and explain to me how studies concerning nutritional effects on the human body is not food (nutritional) science ...........
 
Let me add to the above.

How do you know how a diet change will affect your blood pressure, cholesterol etc if you don't try it and compare all your health markers both before and after?

If enough people did try the change and presented their actual lab work results and that all of them saw a reduction of all the markers we look for at what point is it enough evidence for you?
You're talking about the human body, individually complex, one of the most complex systems we know of. How nutrition affects us individually is connected to not only genetics but also age and lifestyle. In nutrition what's good for the goose is not always what's good for the gander.
An all plant based diet would be wonderful for some but potentially detrimental to others. Basically what has been discovered to be mostly true is: nutritional balance, moderation, portions and exercise. If anyone truly wishes to try an all plant based diet then be my guest but don't tout it as a panacea because some documentary that was put together in such a way to make that specific case said so.

We are all far more alike than we are different.

If we all thought like you then why bother treating any illness or disease because if we're all so different it would be impossible right?

And give me some real life examples of a plant based diet being detrimental to health.

Think about it we eat animals that eat nothing but plants. What does an animal do to the plant matter that is so magical that we mere humans beings can't just eat the plants?
No we are not far more alike, each of us is genetically different though some groups are genetically "similar" withing those groups.
I didn't say medical science was bad, I said food (nutritional) science is heavily flawed. You're looking for black and white, either or, it doesn't exist in this realm of science so giving specifics would be as useless as trying to prove an all plant based diet would benefit all.
Read what I'm saying not what you think I'm saying.

I never look for black or white.

Like I said I have been a meat eater my whole life. I've been an amateur student of nutrition for years. I've tweaked and changed my diet almost constantly for 20 years.

I am an exercise nut and I look for what a change in diet does to my performance. Right now I currently have a couple hundred dollars of free range poultry and grass fed beef as well as some venison in my freezer. I'm not looking for any way to confirm an existing vegan lifestyle since I currently don't follow one.,

But even though I am in good shape and at a healthy weight I have to take blood pressure meds and statins.

I wrote it off to genetics since my mother was half African American and we know that hypertension and high cholesterol are common in Blacks, right?

What if we're not right?

WHat if I can stop taking meds if I change my diet?

I have read books by more than one Dr who has presented decades of clinical evidence that a whole food plant based diet has helped hundreds of patients halt and even reverse coronary artery disease. Ive heard the testimony of elite athletes who say they perform better on a whole food plant based diet.

So when is it confirmation bias in my case as you claim it is?
 
I just watched Game Changers, a documentary on Netflix.

Now I know this is going to be a contentious topic.

The main thrust of the movie is that diet can not only halt but reverse diseases like Type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease, autoimmune diseases etc.

IMO the conclusions are valid.


So if it could be proven to you that a plant based whole food diet would reduce or eliminate your risk of heart attack, stroke, cancer, normalize blood pressure and add years to your life would you change the way you eat?

con·fir·ma·tion bi·as
noun
noun: confirmation bias
the tendency to interpret evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.

Heck anyone can make a documentary proving, say, the sky is truly pink, put it on Netflix or any other outlet and someone(s) will believe it.
Basically take documentaries with at minimum a grain of salt, a whole salt mine if the documentary is attempting to "prove something" by people who want that something proven.............

Wrong

I have been a meat eater my whole life.

But when the results of large scale studies, and decades of clinical results from several doctors all point to the fact that a whole food plant based diet can not only prevent but halt and reverse coronary artery disease and other diseases at what point do you stop denying the efficacy of such a diet?
Food science is considered the junk science of the scientific community and you're an idiot if you believe it. Besides it doesn't change the fact that the so called "documentary" is most likely presented in the manner the author(s) wanted it presented, to specifically "make their case".
Nutrition science

why food science is so bad - Google Search

This isn't food science

It's diet and the effects on the system of the body backed up by empirical, repeatable results.

And again you assume base my opinion on this one single documentary
Empirical, repeatable results within a relatively small sample size, think number of people in the world compared to number of test subjects. There in lies the problem and explain to me how studies concerning nutritional effects on the human body is not food (nutritional) science ...........
The China Study - Wikipedia

Tell me what pharmaceutical drug used such a large number of people in its testing?
 
Here is the FDA guideline for drug studies

Step 3: Clinical Research

You see Phase 3 ?

300 - 3000 subjects not all of which get the drug in the study

So would you say that's too small a sample size in relation to the size and genetic differences in the entire population of the planet?

even when you add in phase 4 it about the same as total the number of people in the China study

Still too small a sample?
 

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