galt's gulch...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by washamericom, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. washamericom
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    washamericom Gold Member

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    what would happen, if the top 1% of american earners, simply walked away.
    they say "we've had enough"... what's going on here is just not right, and we're not going to take it anymore.
    they pay about 40% of the taxes. i think it might change the composition of the country, maybe our chances for socialism. then what?

    one of the many, many, many... mixed messages from this whitehouse is "busines needs to open up, spend some of the cash you have, hire people, grow your business, now is the time. to me, what i am hearing is "so we can tax the life out of even more people".
    i just heard the president say "they would have us borrow 700,000,000,000 to pay 100,000 to billionaires"
    "they, would have Us borrow"
    again as if super taxation were the norm. tax cut means a tax CUT. that means paying less of a tax that is in effect already. borrowing money to pay for a lesser tax that is already in effect, a sort of fantasy widget. and what would you do with this money? more 50,000,000,000 $ infrastructure developments. what happened to the 150,000,000,000 $ for infrastructure development from two years ago? where's the money. we know that 7 million went to hillary's campaign pollster to create three jobs, the sex study for college freshmen girls, joke telling machines, cocaine monkeys... etc. where's the rest of it, and why do you need more. how does borrowing money help reduce debt? because when my credit is maxed out, the first thing i think of isn't finding new ways to borrow more money to pay off my original debt. maybe it's different for government. i can't print my own money.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  2. washamericom
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    washamericom Gold Member

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    replace "war" with wasted...


    Fear of The IRS and Concerns Regarding Personal Issues
    • "It's hard to take on something new with a lot of uncertainties when I'm not forced to. Life is complex enough now." We all have more than enought things to do, and must decide which issues are worth tackling, and which need to be put off. Some War Tax Resisters, so horrified by U.S. militarism, feel compelled to ignore their fears, and go to great lengths to sever their connections to the war-making machinery. Despite personal discomforts that may result from engaging in War Tax Resitance, War Tax Resisters reason these personal problems are minor compared to those of people suffering because of U.S. military actions.

    • "It would create problems with my spouse/parents/employer (security clearance, financial, stress)." It is unlikely that anyone will be harmed because of your War Tax Resistance. In many instances, relatives have been very supportive, though unwilling to participate themselves.

    • "I'll go to jail." It's not going to happen...at least not for refusing to pay War Taxes. Of the couple dozen War Tax Resisters jailed in the last sixty years – out of tens of thousands of Resisters -- the reasons have not been for refusal to pay taxes, but rather because they persistently refused to give information to the IRS (or "falsified" the tax forms). Only one person was actually jailed for War Tax Resistance, and that was in the 1940s.

    • "With interest and penalties, they'll end up collecting more than I originally owed." If the IRS collects, it probably will add interest at the prevailing rate, and penalties. However, the penalties and interest usually do not offset the IRS's costs of collection. Though some War Tax Resisters just accept this as one of the burdens of War Tax Resistance, others have joined the War Tax Resisters Penalty Fund. As a result, they are in little danger of losing money because of interest and penalties (for more information about the WTRPF, see below).

    • "I might lose my job." It's unlikely that an employer will fire an employee who gets a levy. Some resisters, though, have quite their jobs rather than allow the IRS to successfully seize the War Taxes.

    • "It'll hurt my credit rating." This is the intention of the IRS. Despite IRS liens and levies, War Tax Resisters have been able to secure credit cards and loans, as well as make purchases on credit.

    • "It'll call attention to me, and the IRS may invalidate my deductions and credits." War Tax Resisters are rarely audited, because the IRS usually chooses to send resisters' returns directly to the collection division. However, many War Tax Resisters welcome the attention of the government, so officials know why Resisters are refusing to pay their taxes.

    • "The IRS might take my house or car." The IRS can seize property whose titles are held by War Tax Resisters. This, however, is very rare (from 1992 through 2002, the IRS seized only one house and two cars from War Tax Resisters), and the Resister will be given opportunities to pay up and stop the seizure, or redeem the property from the buyer after it is sold. There are many ways to protect your property. For example, some War Tax Resisters have put their property in the name of close friends or relatives. Also, if your resisted taxes are in an alternative fund, that money could be pulled out to help pay for the recovery of your property.

    • "I need my 401(k)/pension/IRA/Social Security to live on when I am older." Currently, the IRS can seize no more than 15% of Social Security checks. Also, it is highly unusual for the IRS to seize 401(k), pensions, or IRAs. Many War Tax Resisters put their resisted taxes into Escrow Accounts or Alternative Funds with the provision of getting that money returned if the IRS succeeds in collecting from another source.

    • "It might jeopardize my ability to get student aid or loans." Though applications have become more nationalized, War Tax Resisting families have been successful submitting an accurate FAFSA form and talking directly to the school's financial aid office.




    Philosophical and Political Concerns
    • "This isn't my battle. Rather than spend the time and energy needed to deal with the IRS and the court system, I prefer to do constructive work for change elsewhere." As mentioned earlier, it is up ot each of us individually to decide where we will focus our efforts, and which projects will get our attention. Resistance to injustice is constructive, particularly when that Resistance is coupled with the re-routing of taxes into community programs. War Tax Resisters do not claim that Tax Resistance is the best or only way to protest militarism -- rather that it is one among many options.

    • "If everyone were to pick and choose which taxes to pay, that would be unfair." If people are willing to non-violently resist taxes, for whatever cause, and deal with the consequences, that's their decision (and also the essence of Civil Disobedience). War Tax Resisters are not shirking their civic duty by refusing to pay the IRS. Most re-route their taxes into programs hurt by the military spending and misplaced priorities of the U.S. government. Moreover, in polling American citizens often vastly underestimate the percentage of the budget allocated to the military -- while opining that they think it should be even smaller than they already think it to be. So it is actually Congress and the President -- and not War Tax Resisters -- who are out of touch with the American public with regard to this issue.

    • "I would rather work within the system, so we can have some influence. War Tax Resistance is alienating and marignal, and will cut me off from the circles of influence that effect real change." In trying to make fundamental changes, it is sometimes necessary to do things that others feel are alienating or extreme in order to get the attention of an establishment that chooses to ignore injustice. In a movement for social change, there are many complementary roles to be played. Among them is the role of the agitator, which aids in getting attention and raising issues. As Martin Luther King, Jr. once noted, "Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored."

    • "Taxes are good; we shouldn't refuse to pay them. I support some of the things that taxes pay for, such as education and human services." While many taxes are beneficial, those that contribute to the military are not -- and that's 50% of the federal budget! And even more taxes are used for other nefarious ends (such as helping to subsidize the tobacco, mining, oil, chemical, auto, etc. industries). So not paying Federal Income Taxes on balance prevents more ill from occuring than it does good from occurring. Additionally, most War Tax Resisters don't simply refuse taxes, thus putting the burden of society's expenses on the shoulders of others. Rather than keep resisted taxes for themselves, they re-route those taxes to society's programs most in need of attention. Also, most War Tax Resisters do pay many taxes not related to military spending (including Social Security, as well as State and Local taxes).

    • "It's wrong to break the law." In a free society, openly wihtdrawing one's consent is an essential component of resisting oppression and tyranny. Non-violently breaking laws has had a long and honorable tradition in the United States. If Thoreau hadn't refused to pay his taxes as a protest to slavery and the Mexican-American War, he would never have written his essay "Civil Disobedience". If protesters for women's suffrage, civil rights, the Vietnam War, and gay rights (among other movements) hadn't committed Civil Disobedience, those movements might well have had very different results.




    Practical and Technical Concerns
    • "War Tax Resistance Is Too Complicated." It can be complicated, depending upon how you resist the taxes and what your personal situation is. But it can also be as simple as doing what you do now, except to refuse a token amount of money and to include a letter of explanation with your return. In any case, there are counselors who are willing to help explain the techniques and issues.

    • "I would have to change my lifestyle." It is true that some War Tax Resisters go out of their way to be un-collectible; and so in the process must frequently change their lifestyles -- including to one of more simple, eco-friendly living. Many War Tax Resisters, on the other hand, find that they can fit their Resistance into their current lifestyles.

    • "I never owe anything: the IRS always sends me a refund." Chances are you are being over-withheld with eacy paycheck. This can be corrected for by claiming at least another allowance on the W-4 form that you file with your employer. This will mean that less income tax will be withheld, and you will owe money to the IRS at the end of the year. You will then be in a position to Resist. For more information regarding W-4 Resistance, see the National War Tax Resistance Coordinating Committee's "Practical War Tax Resistance #1: Controlling Federal Tax Withholding" (also available from the NACC office).

    this is almost enough of a charter for a new political party. if this government can't appropriate or "steal" the money, they can't waste it. i can't help but hear a chuckle from washington, adams, jeff, franklin, hamilton etc. most americans, i think, don't mind paying a resonable amount of their income.

    I think all the world would gain by setting commerce at perfect liberty. ... tommy j. in a letter to john adams
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  3. eagleboy
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    eagleboy Rookie

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    Who is galt? if no one paid there taxes, how would the government pay for everything? I would thimk this would be a big worry for the government. How much of the dnc is 40 percent? where else could they get money for stuff like social security and foodstamps? Too many questions, I think
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  4. geauxtohell
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    geauxtohell Choose your weapon.

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    Galt is the protagonist in Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" which many conservatives read with the same zeal as the Penthouse Forum. It's about as realistic too.

    The taxes that the upper echelons of society pay support the infrastructure that allows them to be profitable here. There is a damn good reason these people don't flee taxation to third world shitholes with limited government.

    They would most likely be kidnapped and ransomed somewhere else.
     
  5. Liberty
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    Liberty Silver Member

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    atlas shrugged reference im sure.
     
  6. washamericom
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    washamericom Gold Member

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    3rd world shitholes with limited government.

    They would most likely be kidnapped and ransomed somewhere else.
    ARIZONA
     
  7. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    Phony and plastic as Rand's protagonists are, she did have the collectivist authoritarian mindsets of her antagonists nailed....In fact you need look no further than a few of this forums looniest of leftloons to find perfect analogs for most if not all of them.
     
  8. Soggy in NOLA
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    Soggy in NOLA Platinum Member

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    Sadly, you probably actually believe this.
     
  9. Bill O'Olberman
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    Bill O'Olberman Active Member

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    So youre saying things like roads, rail, a reliable energy, sewage treatment as well as police, fire departments, a legal system, a stable system of governance, etc are not all paramount to the success and continued success of rich people? The rich pay more but do ultimately use more and benefit more from these services than the average middle class american.

    Im not trying to down play the ingenuity, skills, or ability of people that are very important to their success as well.
     
  10. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    None of those things are supported by, or are only partially funded by, federal income taxes.

    Try again.
     

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