Furor Erupts Over Atheist Display At State Capitol

[amrchaos]

Interesting replies. My take on it was if you are going to allow one person the right to post their beliefs than allow all. But I see the contrary position too, if one simply criticizes the other than that is wrong. But is it? And why. Some Christians do not celebrate Christmas, so could they then post a sign saying these other Christians are wrong? Why not and how would that differ from the atheist? ( I'm playing devil advocate here as I actually go to the wonderful services this time of year. We may not believe as you do but we still enjoy the ceremony and song.)

I dont believe i ever said anything is wrong. I believe in free speech.

However, I think its foolish to pretend that people getting upset when others publicaly mock and insult them is somehow intolerant.

Should we be tolerant of intolerant messages? interesting question.

No--you should not be tolerant of an intolerant message. On that issue I agree with you.

But understand, the production of a nativity offend some atheists(not me, though--I like mythology) Thus should the nativity scene then be attacked by those atheists? Look--those Angry Atheists just did with their intolerant sign!! Now everything is even.

(personally, I think the arguement I just made is a bunch of BS. But the difference in perspective is worthwhile to note. How does an atheist promote atheism if they can not say there is no god and so forth??)

 

[AllieBaba]

The sign reads: "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

You precious, thin-skinned believers need to man up a bit here. The whining is ridiculous. The fool who tried to disturb the sign seems to represent you well. If any of you believers think this is an insult then you need to grow a fucking brain. For the slow, the italicised was an insult.

It is an insult. However, for those whose entire persona is couched in insults, elitism and arrogance, it isn't surprising you miss it.

It's one thing to say, "God loves you, enjoy the season which celebrates his birth" and another to say "You're an idiot if you believe in God."

One is an insult. One isn't. You figure it out. One is tolerant and a suggestion. The other is intolerant, and an attack.

 

[Avatar4321]

So saying someone's mind is enslaved isnt an insult?

I'd like to add another twist to this argument over whether the atheist has the right to post their sign. Suppose the atheist - just as the Christian would feel - feels that their statement is honest and helpful. After all, would 911 have happened if the 19 idiots puzzled over the statement?

Again, no one is saying they dont have a right to post the sign. We are saying you shouldnt be surprised when people dont like it when they are insulted.

I dont know why this is so difficult for you to comprehend.

 

[AllieBaba]

It's difficult for them because they're special and deserve our pity and our prayers.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

We have had this debate over issues of religious displays and celebrations often. It would seem intolerance of another is only recognized in the other. So what to think of this?

Furor Erupts Over Atheist Display At Illinois State Capitol - cbs2chicago.com

"The sign reads: "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.""

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with the OP midcan or if you are just letting us all see the story. To me I dont see what the big deal with that sign is, this is america and if someone wants to pay for a sign that reads that I dont see a big deal. I know its kinda like a SCREW YOU to those who believe in god.....but then again the "jesus saves" and "god loves you" signs are like a SCREW YOU to the atheists.

For some reason "God Loves You" does sound a lot nicer than..."religion is a myth." Its like one sign is wishing good things on others and the other is attacking a group of people...... Ok im kind of rambling here let me ask a question

Do any atheists here view "jesus saves/God Loves You" signs as personal attacks against their lack of faith in god/jesus?

Do any faithists here view " Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds" as a personal attack on their faith in god/jesus?

Oh i wanna make a thread with a poll.

 

[AllieBaba]

Why on earth would "God Loves You" be construed as a slap in the face if you don't believe in God? It's not the same as "God hates you" or "Hell is waiting for atheists..." which if we took the atheist tack in spreading the "good news" would be the way we'd couch it.

But no, we couch it in terms that are kind and palatable and in no way offend. Anyone who can be offended by a message of love has a screw loose.

Likewise, anyone who goes out of their way to offend those who attempt to spread a message of love with insults and hatred likewise has a screw loose.

 

[Diuretic]

Again, where is the insult? If you feel insulted then you might want to grow a hide.

 

[logical4u]

We have had this debate over issues of religious displays and celebrations often. It would seem intolerance of another is only recognized in the other. So what to think of this?

Furor Erupts Over Atheist Display At Illinois State Capitol - cbs2chicago.com

"The sign reads: "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.""

I think this is really sad. The atheists claim they have a great message and this is all they can diplay as an expression of who they really are. No great philosophical statement, no hope for believing as they believe, just borrowed gifts (reason and the natural world) from the Bible and the Lord, while trying to deny Him. Why would anyone turn from Christianity to a group that could be used as poster children for serious depression and mental illness?

 

[Diuretic]

We have had this debate over issues of religious displays and celebrations often. It would seem intolerance of another is only recognized in the other. So what to think of this?

Furor Erupts Over Atheist Display At Illinois State Capitol - cbs2chicago.com

"The sign reads: "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.""

I think this is really sad. The atheists claim they have a great message and this is all they can diplay as an expression of who they really are. No great philosophical statement, no hope for believing as they believe, just borrowed gifts (reason and the natural world) from the Bible and the Lord, while trying to deny Him. Why would anyone turn from Christianity to a group that could be used as poster children for serious depression and mental illness?

It could be worse. It could be something along the lines of "you lot had better believe or yer all going to burn in Hell for eternity!" That's really bloody nasty.

But let's look at it another way. We're all going to die. That is, we will cease to exist, cease to have a consciousness. And we're all shit-scared of it.

To compensate and to comfort we invent religion and the idea of an afterlife (show me any religion with a god in it and there's an afterlife promise).

Atheists say that this is bullshit, when you're dead you're dead. But atheists try to come to grips with it, to live a good life and then to accept the natural consequences of life, that is, it ends. It's about achieving peace of mind and learning to accept the inevitable while getting on with living.

It's your choice, you can believe in superstitious nonsense about gods and an afterlife, no-one is forcing you to take that on. Atheists are simply putting their worldview and it's a worldview that the bloke who tried to touch up the sign disagrees with an wants to inhibit from being expressed. Stuff him, he has no right to do that.

 

[AllieBaba]

Again, where is the insult? If you feel insulted then you might want to grow a hide.

The insult is in telling those who don't believe as you do that they're stupid and their beliefs are bullshit. Can we get plainer than that?

 

[AllieBaba]

"The sign reads: "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. THE IMPLICATION IS THAT IT IS UNREASONABLE AND THEREFORE STUPID TO BELIEVE IN GODThere are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.""IN OTHER WORDS, THOSE WHO BELIEVE ARE RELIGIOUS, IGNORANT SLAVES.

There's the insult for you, jackwad.

 

[Diuretic]

Again, where is the insult? If you feel insulted then you might want to grow a hide.

The insult is in telling those who don't believe as you do that they're stupid and their beliefs are bullshit. Can we get plainer than that?

That's pretty plain, now where is it?

 

[Diuretic]

"The sign reads: "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. THE IMPLICATION IS THAT IT IS UNREASONABLE AND THEREFORE STUPID TO BELIEVE IN GODThere are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.""IN OTHER WORDS, THOSE WHO BELIEVE ARE RELIGIOUS, IGNORANT SLAVES.

There's the insult for you, jackwad.

It sounds like you want to be offended. Perhaps you feel the need to be offended so then you can attack the right of atheists to put up the sign.

The sign says nothing that you impute but if your outrage emboldens you then so be it.

 

[logical4u]

We have had this debate over issues of religious displays and celebrations often. It would seem intolerance of another is only recognized in the other. So what to think of this?

Furor Erupts Over Atheist Display At Illinois State Capitol - cbs2chicago.com

"The sign reads: "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.""

I think this is really sad. The atheists claim they have a great message and this is all they can diplay as an expression of who they really are. No great philosophical statement, no hope for believing as they believe, just borrowed gifts (reason and the natural world) from the Bible and the Lord, while trying to deny Him. Why would anyone turn from Christianity to a group that could be used as poster children for serious depression and mental illness?

It could be worse. It could be something along the lines of "you lot had better believe or yer all going to burn in Hell for eternity!" That's really bloody nasty.

But let's look at it another way. We're all going to die. That is, we will cease to exist, cease to have a consciousness. And we're all shit-scared of it.

To compensate and to comfort we invent religion and the idea of an afterlife (show me any religion with a god in it and there's an afterlife promise).

Atheists say that this is bullshit, when you're dead you're dead. But atheists try to come to grips with it, to live a good life and then to accept the natural consequences of life, that is, it ends. It's about achieving peace of mind and learning to accept the inevitable while getting on with living.

It's your choice, you can believe in superstitious nonsense about gods and an afterlife, no-one is forcing you to take that on. Atheists are simply putting their worldview and it's a worldview that the bloke who tried to touch up the sign disagrees with an wants to inhibit from being expressed. Stuff him, he has no right to do that.

If an alien came to earth and visited 40 to 50 different people over the period of centuries and they all described similar events, would you believe it? There may not be any traces of a spaceship. The alien explained how things happened with the formation of the planet and how life came to be here. If that happened, 'intellectuals' would be screaming about 'the evidence' and it must be so (because those people saw something 'real').

Because 40 or 50 people over the course of centuries described similar events of a "Presence" (that could not be seen or described well), 'intellectuals' are willing to declare: it didn't happen. The 'witnesses' wrote information that they as people living primatively, could not have known: things like mountains on the ocean floor, the movement of the sun and stars. Still, the 'intellectuals' and atheists want to disregard the logic that points to a very knowledgeable Being speaking with these same 'witnesses' over the centuries.

It is true that some that believe in the Lord think it is necessary to scare those that don't believe or to use the Lord to control others. They have the message wrong. Read it for yourself, do not believe any person. If you like philosophy, start with the book of Proverbs, if you want to see old European customs, read Jerimiah, if you want to see a spoiled brat, read Jonah, if you want to see recent and current events, read Ezekiel. Because you cannot prove something exists does not make it less real. Because you ignore the senses and instincts from deep inside you is not the fault of those that believe, that is your choice. Until you can absolutely prove that the Lord doesn't exist, there is no point in telling those that believe He doesn't. It is like telling someone without love in their life that love exists; they will not believe it.

 

[Diuretic]

I think this is really sad. The atheists claim they have a great message and this is all they can diplay as an expression of who they really are. No great philosophical statement, no hope for believing as they believe, just borrowed gifts (reason and the natural world) from the Bible and the Lord, while trying to deny Him. Why would anyone turn from Christianity to a group that could be used as poster children for serious depression and mental illness?

It could be worse. It could be something along the lines of "you lot had better believe or yer all going to burn in Hell for eternity!" That's really bloody nasty.

But let's look at it another way. We're all going to die. That is, we will cease to exist, cease to have a consciousness. And we're all shit-scared of it.

To compensate and to comfort we invent religion and the idea of an afterlife (show me any religion with a god in it and there's an afterlife promise).

Atheists say that this is bullshit, when you're dead you're dead. But atheists try to come to grips with it, to live a good life and then to accept the natural consequences of life, that is, it ends. It's about achieving peace of mind and learning to accept the inevitable while getting on with living.

It's your choice, you can believe in superstitious nonsense about gods and an afterlife, no-one is forcing you to take that on. Atheists are simply putting their worldview and it's a worldview that the bloke who tried to touch up the sign disagrees with an wants to inhibit from being expressed. Stuff him, he has no right to do that.

If an alien came to earth and visited 40 to 50 different people over the period of centuries and they all described similar events, would you believe it? There may not be any traces of a spaceship. The alien explained how things happened with the formation of the planet and how life came to be here. If that happened, 'intellectuals' would be screaming about 'the evidence' and it must be so (because those people saw something 'real').

Because 40 or 50 people over the course of centuries described similar events of a "Presence" (that could not be seen or described well), 'intellectuals' are willing to declare: it didn't happen. The 'witnesses' wrote information that they as people living primatively, could not have known: things like mountains on the ocean floor, the movement of the sun and stars. Still, the 'intellectuals' and atheists want to disregard the logic that points to a very knowledgeable Being speaking with these same 'witnesses' over the centuries.

It is true that some that believe in the Lord think it is necessary to scare those that don't believe or to use the Lord to control others. They have the message wrong. Read it for yourself, do not believe any person. If you like philosophy, start with the book of Proverbs, if you want to see old European customs, read Jerimiah, if you want to see a spoiled brat, read Jonah, if you want to see recent and current events, read Ezekiel. Because you cannot prove something exists does not make it less real. Because you ignore the senses and instincts from deep inside you is not the fault of those that believe, that is your choice. Until you can absolutely prove that the Lord doesn't exist, there is no point in telling those that believe He doesn't. It is like telling someone without love in their life that love exists; they will not believe it.

Well at least that's a bit different.

I'm not blaming any believer, I just want believers to leave me alone. I don't want believers in my legislatures being influenced by their beliefs in making legislation which affects me. I find it offensive that a believer who occupies a legislator position thinks it's okay for him to adversely effect non-believers. It has to be stopped right now, that's how theocracies start.