FUBARRed

[rayboyusmc]

It would be nice if he acknowledged that we weren't attacked by the Iraqis in the first place. Now that they totally screwed up this war, we have to stay forever.

President Bush warned in an interview Tuesday that the Democratic presidential candidates' plans to withdraw abruptly from Iraq could "eventually lead to another attack on the United States" and would "embolden" terrorists.

In a White House interview with Politico and Yahoo News — a president's first for an online audience — Bush said his doomsday scenario for a premature withdrawal (something his father should have done many years ago) “of course is that extremists throughout the Middle East would be emboldened, which would eventually lead to another attack on the United States."

"The United States pulling out of Iraq or pulling out of the Middle East or not maintaining a forward presence would send all kinds of signals throughout the Middle East," he said in the Roosevelt Room. "And it would shake everybody's nerves, and it would embolden the very same people that we're trying to defeat.

For the first time, Bush revealed a personal way in which he has tried to acknowledge the sacrifice of soldiers and their families.

“I don't want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the commander in chief playing golf,” he said. “I feel I owe it to the families to be in solidarity as best as I can with them. And I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal.” Why? What is different from running, bicycling, etc?

Attending one funeral for a service person from each branch would be nice.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10314.html

 

[Dogger]

Whenever George Bush makes a prediction, the smart money always bets against him. Almost everything he has predicted regarding the war, gas prices, jobs, the economy, etc. has been totally wrong. Indeed, I included the word "almost" in the last sentence simply out of caution.

When historians write the book on Bush's universally wrong series of predictions, he will be forever known as Nostradumbass.

 

[jreeves]

Whenever George Bush makes a prediction, the smart money always bets against him. Almost everything he has predicted regarding the war, gas prices, jobs, the economy, etc. has been totally wrong. Indeed, I included the word "almost" in the last sentence simply out of caution.

When historians write the book on Bush's universally wrong series of predictions, he will be forever known as Nostradumbass.

You included the word almost to cover your ignorant over generalized comment.

 

[jillian]

You included the word almost to cover your ignorant over generalized comment.

No. It's because Baby Bush is *almost* always wrong. And if one said he's always wrong, you'd probably come back with the one thing he ever said that was correct.

 

[jreeves]

No. It's because Baby Bush is *almost* always wrong. And if one said he's always wrong, you'd probably come back with the one thing he ever said that was correct.

Sure I guess when we're attacked we should just throw a few tomahawks at some tents in the desert (showing our enemy what dumbasses we are). It seems to me we haven't had any new terror attacks on the homeland since Bush responded after 9/11. Don't you think, Rayboy, that he was referring to terror attacks, you know it's called the War on Terror.

 

[Dogger]

Sure I guess when we're attacked we should just throw a few tomahawks at some tents in the desert (showing our enemy what dumbasses we are). It seems to me we haven't had any new terror attacks on the homeland since Bush responded after 9/11. Don't you think, Rayboy, that he was referring to terror attacks, you know it's called the War on Terror.

Al-Qaeda let 8 years pass between attacks on the homeland. Proves nothing except their patience.

Bush's response after 9/11 was nothing compared to his lack of response the month before. Nostradumbass can't even make a solid prediction when it's handed to him in a PDB.

 

[jreeves]

Al-Qaeda let 8 years pass between attacks on the homeland. Proves nothing except their patience.

Bush's response after 9/11 was nothing compared to his lack of response the month before. Nostradumbass can't even make a solid prediction when it's handed to him in a PDB.

This shows how ignorant you are, AQ only planned 9/11 for a month? It seems as though the majority of their planning occured in the previous adminstration. I agree their was all kinds of warning signs, Somalia, the African embassy bombings, the USS Cole, Bin Laden's declaration of war etc....wonder why Clinton had such an anemic response to those attacks?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This shows how ignorant you are, AQ only planned 9/11 for a month? It seems as though the majority of their planning occured in the previous adminstration. I agree their was all kinds of warning signs, Somalia, the African embassy bombings, the USS Cole, Bin Laden's declaration of war etc....wonder why Clinton had such an anemic response to those attacks?

There is also a reason Clinton sent Sandy Berger to steal classified documents from the archives. The report was that an intel group under the Clinton admin had raised red flags and nothing was done, the report buried.

 

[Dogger]

This shows how ignorant you are, AQ only planned 9/11 for a month?

Motherfucking moron. Can't you read simple English? I never said that.

I was being charitable. Bush sat on his ass the entire period, but he received the PDB on August 6, 2001, that warned "Bin Laden determined to strike within the USA", and continued to sit on his ass.

I agree their [sic] was [sic] all kinds of warning signs, Somalia, the African embassy bombings, the USS Cole, Bin Laden's declaration of war etc....wonder why Clinton had such an anemic response to those attacks?

You should read all of the vicious GOP criticism of Clinton's efforts to deal with al-Qaida. Many of those quislings now give a blank check to Bush for doing so much worse.

And the Cole was bombed in October 2000, right before the election. The culprits were identified right after the SCOTUS gave the election to Bush. Clinton and his team briefed the new administration and left the decision to Bush since he would be responsible for the aftermath. Clinton's biggest mistake was trusting Bush to be responsible.

 

[jreeves]

Motherfucking moron. Can't you read simple English? I never said that.

I was being charitable. Bush sat on his ass the entire period, but he received the PDB on August 6, 2001, that warned "Bin Laden determined to strike within the USA", and continued to sit on his ass.


You should read all of the vicious GOP criticism of Clinton's efforts to deal with al-Qaida. Many of those quislings now give a blank check to Bush for doing so much worse.

And the Cole was bombed in October 2000, right before the election. The culprits were identified right after the SCOTUS gave the election to Bush. Clinton and his team briefed the new administration and left the decision to Bush since he would be responsible for the aftermath. Clinton's biggest mistake was trusting Bush to be responsible.

So Bush sat on his ass for 6 months (during a transitional phase). While Clinton had warning signs for how many years?

Dumbass, just because the election was held in November of 2000 doesn't mean Bush took office in November. Bush didn't take office until Jan. 20th, 2001. Clinton had about three months to respond to the USS Cole bombing. The biggest mistake of Clinton's was his lack of backbone. Obama I mean Osama said it this way......

"After leaving Afghanistan, the Muslim fighters headed for Somalia and prepared for a long battle, thinking that the Americans were like the Russians," bin Laden said. "The youth were surprised at the low morale of the American soldiers and realized more than before that the American soldier was a paper tiger and after a few blows ran in defeat. And America forgot all the hoopla and media propaganda ... about being the world leader and the leader of the New World Order, and after a few blows they forgot about this title and left, dragging their corpses and their shameful defeat."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/miller.html

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Motherfucking moron. Can't you read simple English? I never said that.

I was being charitable. Bush sat on his ass the entire period, but he received the PDB on August 6, 2001, that warned "Bin Laden determined to strike within the USA", and continued to sit on his ass.


You should read all of the vicious GOP criticism of Clinton's efforts to deal with al-Qaida. Many of those quislings now give a blank check to Bush for doing so much worse.

And the Cole was bombed in October 2000, right before the election. The culprits were identified right after the SCOTUS gave the election to Bush. Clinton and his team briefed the new administration and left the decision to Bush since he would be responsible for the aftermath. Clinton's biggest mistake was trusting Bush to be responsible.

What a laugh. No one reported to the Government in August 2001 any SPECIFIC threat. Nothing other than a nebulous " they are coming" report. And Clinton spent 8 years ensuring that the different Agencies would not and could not share information. There was a group that had strong suspicions of what was coming but Clinton ignored them and eventually shit canned them. That would be why he sent Berger to steal documents from the archive, to cover his ass on the matter.

As for doing something, you whine and bitch that Bush DID do something on what he felt were credible dangers from Iraq in 2002 and 2003. Yet after the fact he should have "done something" in August 2001 on a report that a terror organization wanted to attack us. No specifics, no dates, no uncovered plans, no names.

YOU bitch and moan about what the Government does NOW to try and catch terrorists and complain our rights have been eroded, BUT then in the same breath claim Bush should have "done something" in August 2001 on a non specific report of a potential threat.

You bitch and moan that 7 guys in Florida were rail roaded on terror charges when the Government has taped evidence of them announcing CLEAR plans to attack facilities, asking for training, money and association with a TERROR organization, BUT demand Bush should have done "something" in August 2001 on a non specific threat of an unknown terror attack "somewhere, someday, somehow" in the USA.

There is a word for that.

If we had caught the 19 terrorists on September 10 you would be demanding we release them because they hadn't actually done anything and Bush was "fear mongering". I mean all they had were box cutters and before September 11 2001 no one was worried about them.

 

[Dogger]

Clinton Defends Record on Fighting Terrorism

Clinton said he authorized the CIA to kill bin Laden, and even "contracted with people to kill him." He also said he had a plan to attack Afghanistan, overthrow the Taliban and hunt for bin Laden after the attack on the USS Cole, but the CIA and FBI refused to certify that bin Laden was responsible, and Uzbekistan refused to allow the United States to set up a base. By contrast, Clinton said the Bush administration's neoconservatives "had no meetings on bin Laden for nine months," believing he had been "too obsessed with bin Laden."

"At least I tried," Clinton said. "That's the difference [between] me and some, including all of the right-wingers who are attacking me now. They ridiculed me for trying. They had eight months to try. They did not try. I tried. So I tried and failed. When I failed, I left a comprehensive anti-terror strategy and the best guy in the country, [Richard] Clarke, who got demoted."

 

[jreeves]

Clinton Defends Record on Fighting Terrorism

Clinton said he authorized the CIA to kill bin Laden, and even "contracted with people to kill him." He also said he had a plan to attack Afghanistan, overthrow the Taliban and hunt for bin Laden after the attack on the USS Cole, but the CIA and FBI refused to certify that bin Laden was responsible, and Uzbekistan refused to allow the United States to set up a base. By contrast, Clinton said the Bush administration's neoconservatives "had no meetings on bin Laden for nine months," believing he had been "too obsessed with bin Laden."

"At least I tried," Clinton said. "That's the difference [between] me and some, including all of the right-wingers who are attacking me now. They ridiculed me for trying. They had eight months to try. They did not try. I tried. So I tried and failed. When I failed, I left a comprehensive anti-terror strategy and the best guy in the country, [Richard] Clarke, who got demoted."

So he fails to act and blames it on a Republican Adminstration...Wow, I couldn't have seen that happening....

 

[jreeves]

Clinton Defends Record on Fighting Terrorism

Clinton said he authorized the CIA to kill bin Laden, and even "contracted with people to kill him." He also said he had a plan to attack Afghanistan, overthrow the Taliban and hunt for bin Laden after the attack on the USS Cole, but the CIA and FBI refused to certify that bin Laden was responsible, and Uzbekistan refused to allow the United States to set up a base. By contrast, Clinton said the Bush administration's neoconservatives "had no meetings on bin Laden for nine months," believing he had been "too obsessed with bin Laden."

"At least I tried," Clinton said. "That's the difference [between] me and some, including all of the right-wingers who are attacking me now. They ridiculed me for trying. They had eight months to try. They did not try. I tried. So I tried and failed. When I failed, I left a comprehensive anti-terror strategy and the best guy in the country, [Richard] Clarke, who got demoted."

So he was going to break international and US law...oh ok

No matter what the public perception may be, one
thing is certain: assassination is illegal under both U.S. and
international law.3

http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?55+Duke+L.+J.+677+pdf.

 

[Dogger]

So he was going to break international and US law...oh ok

No matter what the public perception may be, one
thing is certain: assassination is illegal under both U.S. and
international law.3

http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?55+Duke+L.+J.+677+pdf.

So, he's fucked either way he goes with you?

Q: What is the difference between targeting an individual terrorist, and dropping a bomb on a Baghdad restaurant because you believe Saddam Hussein is eating there?

A: The first option is not likely to kill children and innocent bystanders.

Smart bombs aimed at Saddam killed families
By David Blair in Baghdad
Last Updated: 11:40PM BST 20/04/2003

An air strike which American spokesmen were confident had killed Saddam Hussein in a Baghdad restaurant missed its target and hit nearby homes, killing at least eight people.

Three children were among the dead when four satellite-guided bombs were dropped by a B1 Lancer. A jagged crater 25ft deep, strewn with debris and smelling of rotting flesh, is all that remains of the two homes in the suburb of Mansur.

 

[jreeves]

So, he's fucked either way he goes with you?

Q: What is the difference between targeting an individual terrorist, and dropping a bomb on a Baghdad restaurant because you believe Saddam Hussein is eating there?

A: The first option is not likely to kill children and innocent bystanders.

A separate question is the constitutional issues of limits to executive power and whether the president has the power to authorize targeted killings. In the case of the 2002 strike in Yemen, then-National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice told reporters, “I can assure you that no constitutional questions are raised here. There are authorities that the president can give to officials [and] he’s well within the balance of accepted practice and the letter of his constitutional authority.” During peacetime this might be a more contentious issue, but former Assistant Secretary of Defense Lawrence Korb explains that in this case, “the congressional authorization of force gave [the president] the power to do this.”

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9627/#2

No he's not fucked either way, he could have handed an ultimatum to the Taliban. In fact, he never did , we suffered attack after attack while his responses to these actions were anemic at best.

 

[Dogger]

Clinton admits he tried, and failed. At least he tried. What was Bush's response to the 8/6/01 PDB? He told the briefer "You've covered your ass", and dismissed him.

Even without specifics, there were many steps Bush could have taken to heighten security. Even AG Ashcroft has stopped flying commercial jets that summer.

What did Bush do? He stuck his thumb up his ass and sat on it.

 

[jreeves]

Clinton admits he tried, and failed. At least he tried. What was Bush's response to the 8/6/01 PDB? He told the briefer "You've covered your ass", and dismissed him.

Even without specifics, there were many steps Bush could have taken to heighten security. Even AG Ashcroft has stopped flying commercial jets that summer.

What did Bush do? He stuck his thumb up his ass and sat on it.

Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate Bin Ladin since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Ladin implied in US television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."
After US missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, Bin Ladin told followers he wanted to retaliate in Washington, according to a [--] service.
An Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) operative told an [--] service at the same time that Bin Ladin was planning to exploit the operative's access to the US to mount a terrorist strike.
The millennium plotting in Canada in 1999 may have been part of Bin Ladin's first serious attempt to implement a terrorist strike in the US. Convicted plotter Ahmed Ressam has told the FBI that he conceived the idea to attack Los Angeles International Airport himself, but that Bin Ladin lieutenant Abu Zubaydah encouraged him and helped facilitate the operation. Ressam also said that in 1998 Abu Zubaydah was planning his own US attack.
Ressam says Bin Ladin was aware of the Los Angeles operation.
Although Bin Ladin has not succeeded, his attacks against the US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 demonstrate that he prepares operations years in advance and is not deterred by setbacks. Bin Ladin associates surveilled our Embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam as early as 1993, and some members of the Nairobi cell planning the bombings were arrested and deported in 1997.
We have found no indication of any further discussion before September 11 among the President and his top advisers of the possibility of a threat of an al Qaeda attack in the United States. DCI Tenet visited President Bush in Crawford, Texas, on August 17 and participated in PDB briefings of the President between August 31 (after the President had returned to Washington) and September 10. But Tenet does not recall any discussions with the President of the domestic threat during this period.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_Determined_to_Strike_in_U.S.

Nothing in the briefing gave any kind of specific threats and it was less than a month before 9/11.

 

[Dogger]

Your link doesn't work.

As I said, "Even without specifics, there were many steps Bush could have taken to heighten security. Even AG Ashcroft has stopped flying commercial jets that summer.

What did Bush do? He stuck his thumb up his ass and sat on it."

 

[jreeves]

Your link doesn't work.

As I said, "Even without specifics, there were many steps Bush could have taken to heighten security. Even AG Ashcroft has stopped flying commercial jets that summer.

What did Bush do? He stuck his thumb up his ass and sat on it."

He's the one that asked for the report your talking about. Obviously he did recognize a potential problem but he wasn't in office long enough.