From Pol Pot to the Islamic State

[georgephillip]

"Only when 'we' recognize the war criminals in our midst will the blood begin to dry." So ends John Pilger's recent post at CounterPunch connecting the "torrent of suffering" unleashed on the people of Cambodia over forty years ago with the recent rise of IS in the Middle East.

"In transmitting President Richard Nixon’s orders for a 'massive' bombing of Cambodia in 1969, Henry Kissinger said, 'Anything that flies on everything that moves'.

"As Barack Obama ignites his seventh war against the Muslim world since he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, the orchestrated hysteria and lies make one almost nostalgic for Kissinger’s murderous honesty.

"As a witness to the human consequences of aerial savagery – including the beheading of victims, their parts festooning trees and fields – I am not surprised by the disregard of memory and history, yet again.

"A telling example is the rise to power of Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge, who had much in common with today’s Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

"They, too, were ruthless medievalists who began as a small sect. They, too, were the product of an American-made apocalypse, this time in Asia."

From Pol Pot to ISIS CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

 

[Thunderbird]

"They, too, were ruthless medievalists who began as a small sect. They, too, were the product of an American-made apocalypse, this time in Asia."

1) It makes no sense to blame Nixon for the rise of Pol Pot. Nixon, you may recall, was fighting the Communists!

2) There was nothing medieval about Pol Pot. He was a thorough modernist atheist devoted to Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Sartre. And the Middle Ages were relatively peaceful. Did you know the 10th century was the most peaceful by a wide margin?

Why The 20th Century Was The Bloodiest Of All DemocraticPeace Blog

3) I think you are right about Obama. Nixon was fighting a formidable foe: the Soviet Union. Obama is fighting pointless wars against enemies that don't threaten the U.S.

 

[georgephillip]

"They, too, were ruthless medievalists who began as a small sect. They, too, were the product of an American-made apocalypse, this time in Asia."

1) It makes no sense to blame Nixon for the rise of Pol Pot. Nixon, you may recall, was fighting the Communists!

2) There was nothing medieval about Pol Pot. He was a thorough modernist atheist devoted to Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Sartre. And the Middle Ages were relatively peaceful. Did you know the 10th century was the most peaceful by a wide margin?

Why The 20th Century Was The Bloodiest Of All DemocraticPeace Blog

3) I think you are right about Obama. Nixon was fighting a formidable foe: the Soviet Union. Obama is fighting pointless wars against enemies that don't threaten the U.S.

Starting with 1), Nixon was entirely responsible for the rise of Pol Pot in Cambodia which was not at war with the US in 1969:

"The Americans dropped the equivalent of five Hiroshimas on rural Cambodia during 1969-73.

"They levelled village after village, returning to bomb the rubble and corpses.

"The craters left monstrous necklaces of carnage, still visible from the air.

"The terror was unimaginable. A former Khmer Rouge official described how the survivors 'froze up and they would wander around mute for three or four days. Terrified and half-crazy, the people were ready to believe what they were told … That was what made it so easy for the Khmer Rouge to win the people over.'”

From Pol Pot to ISIS CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

 

[Thunderbird]

Starting with 1), Nixon was entirely responsible for the rise of Pol Pot in Cambodia which was not at war with the US in 1969:

Absurd.

Both the Sihanouk and Lon Nol governments agreed to the bombing in an attempt to stop the brutal Khmer Rouge.

Articles Year Zero

 

[georgephillip]

Starting with 1), Nixon was entirely responsible for the rise of Pol Pot in Cambodia which was not at war with the US in 1969:

Absurd.

Both the Sihanouk and Lon Nol governments agreed to the bombing in an attempt to stop the brutal Khmer Rouge.

Articles Year Zero

Actually, the "brutal Khmer Rouge" were created by US bombs, not unlike IS today.

Your source:
"According to data released by the Clinton administration and reported by Ben Kiernan and Taylor Owen, from 1969 to 1973, American B-52s dropped '2,756,941 tons' worth [of explosives] in 230,516 sorties on 113,716 sites,' more than was dropped by all parties in World War II. Innocent Cambodian villagers were surely killed, although estimates vary wildly, from 5,000 to 600,000."

And mine who saw the carnage first hand:
"According to Pol Pot, his movement had consisted of 'fewer than 5,000 poorly armed guerrillas uncertain about their strategy, tactics, loyalty and leaders'. Once Nixon’s and Kissinger’s B52 bombers had gone to work as part of 'Operation Menu', the west’s ultimate demon could not believe his luck..."

"A Finnish Government Commission of Enquiry estimated that 600,000 Cambodians died in the ensuing civil war and described the bombing as the 'first stage in a decade of genocide'. What Nixon and Kissinger began, Pol Pot, their beneficiary, completed. Under their bombs, the Khmer Rouge grew to a formidable army of 200,000."

 

[Thunderbird]

Actually, the "brutal Khmer Rouge" were created by US bombs, not unlike IS today.

Only an idiot would blame the people fighting the Khmer Rouge for Khmer Rouge atrocities! You seem to be an ideologue who parrots the same propaganda over and over so I'm sure you'll ignore the facts.

According to diplomat Timothy M Carney: "Pol Pot won the war due to support from Sihanouk, massive supplies of military aid from North Vietnam, government corruption, the cut-off of U.S. air support after Watergate, and the determination of the Cambodian Communists."

LINK

 

[Saigon]

This is a staggeringly ignorant thread.

I particularly like the refernce to Nixon's honesty....when most of us remember that the war in Cambodia was kept secret from the American people.

Blaming Obama for the conflicts in Syria and Libya?

That really is beyond childish. Both conflicts began years before any western involvement.

 

[Saigon]

Btw, What do Pol Pol and ISIS have in common?

Nothing.

That's what. Nothing at all.

 

[Esmeralda]

This is a staggeringly ignorant thread.

I particularly like the refernce to Nixon's honesty....when most of us remember that the war in Cambodia was kept secret from the American people.

Blaming Obama for the conflicts in Syria and Libya?

That really is beyond childish. Both conflicts began years before any western involvement.

Bears repeating: This is a staggeringly ignorant thread.

I read the posts of the rightwingers on this thread and them virtually masterbating over the article cited. They'll believe anything they read as long as it reinforces their prejudice and bias, their hate fest over Obama. The points they think they are making are not even worth addressing they are so absurd.

 

[Thunderbird]

I read the posts of the rightwingers on this thread and them virtually masterbating over the article cited. They'll believe anything they read as long as it reinforces their prejudice and bias, their hate fest over Obama. The points they think they are making are not even worth addressing they are so absurd.

What?! The article is from a far left perspective and a far left magazine.

 

[TheOldSchool]

From Pol Pot to the Islamic State

Pol Pot????????!!!!!!!!!!

I'd rather SMOKE pot!!!

 

[Thunderbird]

This is a staggeringly ignorant thread.

I particularly like the refernce to Nixon's honesty....when most of us remember that the war in Cambodia was kept secret from the American people.

Blaming Obama for the conflicts in Syria and Libya?

That really is beyond childish. Both conflicts began years before any western involvement.

What has Obama accomplished with all his foolish wars?

quote: In all three countries [Iraq, Libya, Syria], the United States, which claimed to be battling dictatorship to bring democracy, helped to create the power vacuum these Islamists have moved to fill.

Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/08/26/to_defeat_the_islamic_state_123759.html#ixzz3HhLAUFtx

 

[Saigon]

Thunderbird -

When did Obama invade Iraq?

 

[August West]

We went to war with Libya? How many battalions did we send and how many casualties did we sustain?

 

[Thunderbird]

Thunderbird -

When did Obama invade Iraq?

He's attacking Iraq right now!

Obama Bombs Iraq 'In Order to Save It'

Obama wanted to keep 10,000 troops in Iraq, ABC's Raddatz claims

And remember Obama's massive troop deployments in Afghanistan?

U.S. Deaths in Afghanistan: Obama vs Bush

List of children killed by drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen

Please accept the fact that Obama is every bit the war-monger Bush was.

 

[Thunderbird]

We went to war with Libya? How many battalions did we send and how many casualties did we sustain?

Amazing! If you drop bombs on a country you are at war with that country genius. Looks like another Obamabot who can't accept the fact that Obama loves war.

Paul, Kucinich Seek to Defund “Impeachable” War on Libya

 

[Thunderbird]

What vital American interest do Obama's wars serve? Aren't they creating more terrorists who hate America?

Why does America do Israel's bidding? Fight Israel's wars?

Obama's Syria War Is Really About Iran and Israel

 

[georgephillip]

Actually, the "brutal Khmer Rouge" were created by US bombs, not unlike IS today.

Only an idiot would blame the people fighting the Khmer Rouge for Khmer Rouge atrocities! You seem to be an ideologue who parrots the same propaganda over and over so I'm sure you'll ignore the facts.

According to diplomat Timothy M Carney: "Pol Pot won the war due to support from Sihanouk, massive supplies of military aid from North Vietnam, government corruption, the cut-off of U.S. air support after Watergate, and the determination of the Cambodian Communists."

LINK

You're conflating winning a war that spanned 8 years, 1 month, and 6 days (11 March '67 - 17 April '75) with the rise of the Khmer Rouge between March and June of 1970 when the US Operation Menu dropped "the equivalent of five Hiroshimas on rural Cambodia..."

When Operation Menu began, Pol Pot himself claimed he had about five thousand fighters. By the time Operation Menu finished, Pol Pot's forces totaled 200,000.

Can you manage that math?

From Pol Pot to ISIS CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

 

[Thunderbird]

Let's not forget Noam Chomsky and how much he did for the Khmer Rouge cause.

Chomsky Denies a Genocide

The Hypocrisy of Noam Chomsky

 

[georgephillip]

Btw, What do Pol Pol and ISIS have in common?

Nothing.

That's what. Nothing at all.

Are you sure?
"A Finnish Government Commission of Enquiry estimated that 600,000 Cambodians died in the ensuing civil war and described the bombing as the 'first stage in a decade of genocide'.

"What Nixon and Kissinger began, Pol Pot, their beneficiary, completed.

"Under their bombs, the Khmer Rouge grew to a formidable army of 200,000.

"ISIS has a similar past and present.

"By most scholarly measure, Bush and Blair’s invasion of Iraq in 2003 led to the deaths of some 700,000 people — in a country that had no history of jihadism.

"The Kurds had done territorial and political deals; Sunni and Shia had class and sectarian differences, but they were at peace; intermarriage was common.

"Three years before the invasion, I (John Pilger) drove the length of Iraq without fear. On the way I met people proud, above all, to be Iraqis, the heirs of a civilization that seemed, for them, a presence."
From Pol Pot to ISIS CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names