From Goat Farm to Treason

onedomino

SCE to AUX
Sep 14, 2004
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Is this guy mentally ill? What could have gone so horribly wrong in his life that he wants to destroy the country of his birth? I was stunned when I read that this nitwit is Jewish. It's almost beyond belief. Al Qaeda would like nothing more than to kill every Jew on the planet. This guy makes Jose Padilla seem like a model citizen.

From Goat Farm To Treason Charge

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/12/terror/main2084483.shtml

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Not so long ago, Adam Gadahn was a Jewish-American boy, growing up on a goat farm in Orange County, California. Now he's been charged with treason against the United States -- "perhaps the most serious offense for which any person can be tried under our Constitution," according to Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty.

But Gadahn, aka Azzam al-Amriki or "Azzam the American," 28, is accused of deliberately making the choice to leave his country and join al Qaeda, providing "aid and comfort" to the country's most determined enemy.

Announcing the charges at an afternoon press conference at the Justice Department Wednesday, the Deputy Attorney General asserted that "in fact Mr Gadahn is the first person to be charged with treason against the United States since the World War II era."

The indictment, returned by a federal grand jury sitting in Santa Ana, California, includes a second charge of providing material support to a terrorist organization.

But it is the treason charge that is most serious; in fact, it is so unusual that it is the only crime specifically mentioned in the U.S. Constitution. In the entire history of the country, only about 40 individuals have ever been charged with the crime. The charge of treason carries a maximum possible penalty of death, but the decision whether to seek the ultimate penalty will not be made until Gadahn is apprehended and brought into court.

The 9-page indictment describes a series of videos on which Gadahn appeared, beginning in October 2004, and increasing to three released so far this year, most recently on September 11, 2006, the 5th anniversary of the most horrific terrorist attack on the U.S.

In the videos, Gadahn gloated over attacks he threatened would be coming, promising "the streets of America shall run red with blood." He praised the 9/11 attacks as "the blessed raids on New York and Washington."

But Justice officials said a tape released on September 2nd of this year, in which Gadahn was actually introduced by al Qaeda's second-in-command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, was "the last straw."

A State Department official announced that department's Rewards for Justice Program (RJP) would post a $1 million reward for information leading to the capture or conviction of Gadahn. Joe Morton pointed out that the RJP has paid more than $62 million to over 40 individuals whose information led to the prevention of attacks, or the apprehension of terrorists planning attacks.

The officials all admitted that Gadahn's whereabouts are unknown. He's a fugitive "overseas," but is presumed to be somewhere in Pakistan, in the rough terrain bordering Afghanistan where bin Laden and his top lieutenants are also believed to be hiding.

Although McNulty acknowledged to reporters that Gadahn was not accused of actually participating in the planning of any attack, he and other officials maintained that the translation and communications skills Gadahn has contributed are highly significant in the propaganda war that al Qaeda wages against the West.

Executive Assistant FBI Director Willie Hulon said that designating Gadahn as a "high value target" and putting him "high on the FBI's radar screen" may limit his operational ability, but "he still poses a different kind of threat, as a communicator for al Qaeda."

McNulty agreed with a reporter's suggestion that proving the crime of treason requires a high standard of proof, but said he wouldn't be there "if we weren't confident that we had the evidence to support the elements" required to prove the crime.

He pointed out that it shouldn't be too hard to satisfy the requirement of the "two-witness rule," owing to "the fact that these messages have been broadcast into the U.S. on video repeatedly, and that a number of individuals would be in a position to be able to identify Adam Gadahn."
 
He's a fugitive "overseas," but is presumed to be somewhere in Pakistan, in the rough terrain bordering Afghanistan where bin Laden and his top lieutenants are also believed to be hiding.

Sounds like he's found his new "home", hopefully he'll come down with the same aliments that Bin Laden did.:thewave:
 
Is this guy mentally ill? What could have gone so horribly wrong in his life that he wants to destroy the country of his birth? I was stunned when I read that this nitwit is Jewish. It's almost beyond belief. Al Qaeda would like nothing more than to kill every Jew on the planet. This guy makes Jose Padilla seem like a model citizen.

I don't know about mentally ill. But certainly something went horribly wrong to make him so self-hating and hate his birthright so much that he would not only relinquish it, but side with those who want him obliterated.

Very sad.
 
I don't know about mentally ill. But certainly something went horribly wrong to make him so self-hating and hate his birthright so much that he would not only relinquish it, but side with those who want him obliterated.

Very sad.

It's called Islam. It was invented for people like him.
 
I know a couple things:


He likes to travel, and doesn't shave often. Other than that, I'd be willing to bet money his parents never beat him. :(

Heh!

Or maybe they beat him too much?

One has to really ask, though, where the self-hatred comes from. It's like he got up one morning and asked himself how he could hurt his parents the most.... and this is what he came up with.
 
Heh!

Or maybe they beat him too much?

One has to really ask, though, where the self-hatred comes from. It's like he got up one morning and asked himself how he could hurt his parents the most.... and this is what he came up with.

Not a CHANCE. Kids getting Beat (not abused) does NOT make them violent. It teaches them RESPECT. Obviously, this poor bastard has NO respect for anything. For him, if it FEELS good..he does it. Sounds like most libs, eh? No sense of responsibility.
 
What do you know about him other than the end result?


I don't understand your question.

Why does anyone turn to religion? He's a man and he's a Muslim. A Muslims first loyality is always to Islam. It can't be any other way. The only difference is in the degree to which someone takes that loyality to action. And for every Muslim who acts, there are a billion other Muslims who approve of that action because that is what Islam teaches them to do.

I don't give a shit if his father spanked him when he was a kid.
 
I know the legal use of the term treason refers to individuals who commit any kind of disloyal acts against his country.

But it seems to me that the act of betrayal requires a previous oath of allegiance made by the traitor.

And this does not seem to be this individual's case since he's not a soldier.

I'm not discussing this case in particular.

For example, how can a arab betray Islam if he never pledged to defend this particular religious faith and perhaps doesn't even follow it?
 
I don't understand your question.

Why does anyone turn to religion? He's a man and he's a Muslim. A Muslims first loyality is always to Islam. It can't be any other way. The only difference is in the degree to which someone takes that loyality to action. And for every Muslim who acts, there are a billion other Muslims who approve of that action because that is what Islam teaches them to do.

I don't give a shit if his father spanked him when he was a kid.

You used the phrase "people like him". I asked what you know about him to use such a phrase when all you know is how he ended up.

It is simplistic to just say "well he's a muslim so he's a terrorist". This is a guy who's Jewish by birth. For a Jew to take on the persona of an Arab terrorist and to totally obliterate any trace of his heritage is, to my mind, sort of like the victim of torture alligning him or herself with her captors.... you know Stockholm Syndrome. Otherwise, why on earth would this guy identify with people who want him and his family... his parents, grandparents, siblings ... dead?
 
José;490647 said:
I know the legal use of the term treason refers to individuals who commit any kind of disloyal acts against his country.

But it seems to me that the act of betrayal requires a previous oath of allegiance made by the traitor.

And this does not seem to be this individual's case since he's not a soldier.

I'm not discussing this case in particular.

For example, how can a arab betray Islam if he never pledged to defend this particular religious faith and perhaps doesn't even follow it?

Do you really think it's only military people who are prohibited from treason? All American citizens are required not to act against their country and I daresay that's true in every other Western Nation as well. Treason is the only criminal act set forth in the Constitution.

As for the oath thing... Er.....

"I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America
And to the Republic for which it stands......."

Sounds like an oath to me.
 
Do you really think it's only military people who are prohibited from treason? All American citizens are required not to act against their country and I daresay that's true in every other Western Nation as well. Treason is the only criminal act set forth in the Constitution.

As for the oath thing... Er.....

"I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America
And to the Republic for which it stands......."

Sounds like an oath to me.

As is said too many times, "No comprendo".:dunno:
 
Originally posted by jillian
Do you really think it's only military people who are prohibited from treason? All American citizens are required not to act against their country and I daresay that's true in every other Western Nation as well. Treason is the only criminal act set forth in the Constitution.

As for the oath thing... Er.....

"I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America
And to the Republic for which it stands......."

Sounds like an oath to me.

Exactly trobinett, no comprendo : )

Oaths parroted by children and teenagers mean nothing. Their recitation is compulsory in schools and public events.

Let's imagine an individual who, AFTER BECOMING AN ADULT, finally concludes he does not agree with the values on which his country was founded (Wahabism in the case of SA and secularism in the case of the US).

I urge the members of the USMB to answer this simple question:

How can anyone betray a tribe or ideology they've never pledged (as adults) to defend or support in the first place?
 
José;490703 said:
Exactly trobinett, no comprendo : )

Oaths parroted by children and teenagers mean nothing. Their recitation is compulsory in schools and public events.

Let's imagine an individual who, AFTER BECOMING AN ADULT, finally concludes he does not agree with the values on which his country was founded (Wahabism in the case of SA and secularism in the case of the US).

I urge the members of the USMB to answer this simple question:

How can anyone betray a tribe or ideology they've never pledged (as adults) to defend or support in the first place?

All those that are citizens of this nation whether through choice or by birth are subject to the priveleges and the rules of the United States. He was born a citizen of the United States of America. He therefore has said oath in his birthright. He then is a traitor for siding with the enemy and deliberately attempting to kill Americans in the name of our enemies.
 
José;490703 said:
How can anyone betray a tribe or ideology they've never pledged (as adults) to defend or support in the first place?

Allow me. One who accepts the benefits of citizenship has the obligation not to work to overthrow the government. No society is going to allow those who actively seek to destroy it to live freely inside its borders. Thus, laws against treason.

Why would you have a problem with that?
 
You used the phrase "people like him". I asked what you know about him to use such a phrase when all you know is how he ended up.

It is simplistic to just say "well he's a muslim so he's a terrorist". This is a guy who's Jewish by birth. For a Jew to take on the persona of an Arab terrorist and to totally obliterate any trace of his heritage is, to my mind, sort of like the victim of torture alligning him or herself with her captors.... you know Stockholm Syndrome. Otherwise, why on earth would this guy identify with people who want him and his family... his parents, grandparents, siblings ... dead?

Sorry. I forgot that using the term "people like [him] or [you]" is a big no no with liberals. Liberals really hate it whenever anyone says "people like you". I think they immediately see it as racist so it gets their defenses up.

He did not take on the persona of an Arab terrorist. He became a Muslim. Arabs and Muslims are not the same thing.

He didn't care about his family because Muslims believe that only God has the right to judge, and therefore any of their victims, whether it's their parents, siblings, or children, will be so judged by God. Who they kill is not their problem. Any Muslim they kill will be considered a martyr just like them, and any non-Muslim they kill is God's problem.

I'm not making any of this up, Jillian. You can read it for yourself. It's all just a Google search away.
 
All those that are citizens of this nation whether through choice or by birth are subject to the priveleges and the rules of the United States. He was born a citizen of the United States of America. He therefore has said oath in his birthright. He then is a traitor for siding with the enemy and deliberately attempting to kill Americans in the name of our enemies.

I don't disagree with what you are saying in fact, but I do disagree in principle. IF screwballs like this officially and publicly renounce their US citizenship, then so be it.

IMO, if someone takes the above steps PRIOR TO any acts agains the United States, they should be treated as any other foreign criminal. To charge them with treason is just a bit absurd to me.

Now, that ISN'T saying I don't think the guy should take one right through the forehead; which, makes the foregoing argument moot. I just think the rule being applied here is a bit screwy.
 
Sorry. I forgot that using the term "people like [him] or [you]" is a big no no with liberals. Liberals really hate it whenever anyone says "people like you". I think they immediately see it as racist so it gets their defenses up.

It's not that I saw it as racist. It's that I see phrases like that, which generalize to such a great degree, as lacking in nuance. It also didn't address what struck me as so bizarre and so sad about this man. He was born a Jew, presumably raised a Jew. Al Qaeda would like to see nothing more than the obliteration of all Jews, so it's not just an act against his country, as I see it, it's an act against his heritage..... hence my question.

He did not take on the persona of an Arab terrorist. He became a Muslim. Arabs and Muslims are not the same thing.

True. But when I did my sub-specialty in college in mid-east politics, it was all Arab-Israeli Conflict-type issues. So was probably habitual.

He didn't care about his family because Muslims believe that only God has the right to judge, and therefore any of their victims, whether it's their parents, siblings, or children, will be so judged by God. Who they kill is not their problem. Any Muslim they kill will be considered a martyr just like them, and any non-Muslim they kill is God's problem.

Yes... for some Muslims, not all. But one has to question what attacted a Jewish kid to Islam. It's not exactly a comfortable fit. And converting to Islam does not automatically make one a murderer. I've had the opportunity to speak with Arabs and Muslims who don't see the world in such a dark way. In fact, I not very long ago, had a wonderful discussion with a fairly religious (though not psycho or fundie or terrorist) Muslim man about the differences between halal and kashrit and the types of things we wanted our children to learn about our respective heritages. So, no, I don't see all Muslims that way.

What I did know, even in college, was that jihadis were going to become a huge problem for us.

I'm not making any of this up, Jillian. You can read it for yourself. It's all just a Google search away.

Thanks for the advice... but I've done my share of studies. As I said, the middle east was one of my sub-majors. Perhaps that makes me not see things all in black and white or good and evil. But then again, maybe it's just a difference in world view. I think humans are complex creatures.
 

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