Friends in the Mountains

Lefty Wilbury

Active Member
Nov 4, 2003
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9629606/site/newsweek/

Friends in the Mountains
Northern Iraq is a stable land where people love America and Americans. So why doesn't the U.S. military make itself at home?

By Babak Dehghanpisheh and Christopher Dickey
Newsweek

Oct. 17, 2005 issue - For a brief spell last year, small groups of American soldiers fresh off the battlefields of Fallujah and Samarra got a chance to rest and relax at the Jiyan Hotel in the highlands of Iraq. They could swim laps, play tennis, shoot pool and generally just chill as they looked out on the dramatic snow-covered peaks that have always been the refuge of the Kurds. ("We have no friends but the mountains" is a well-known Kurdish proverb.) Kids mobbed the soldiers, asking for candy; adults began every conversation with "My friend." Indeed, there are few places anywhere in the world these days where American troops get a warmer welcome.

When you hear that Iraqis are sick of the U.S. occupation, remember the Kurds. They love the U.S.A. They want these American occupiers, and really do think of them as liberators. Top Kurdish officials have practically begged the U.S. military to make itself at home in their land. "I do not ask that Americans build bases in Kurdistan—I demand it," says Abdel Beg Perwani, a Kurdish member of Iraq's Parliament and deputy head of the defense committee.

It gets better: Kurdistan is the one area of Iraq that's stable and prosperous. "People feel good," says Stafford Clarry, an adviser to the regional government who previously worked for the United Nations. "It's just money, money, money." With the approach of a referendum on Iraq's national constitution on Oct. 15, bombs were going off to the south in Baghdad, Taji and Al Hillah, killing scores of people and wounding hundreds. But the Kurds were in a festive mood. "It's going to be embarrassing," says Clarry of the referendum. In Kurdistan, "there's probably going to be a 97 percent turnout."

So why are U.S. soldiers rare sights in the Kurdish north? In part, it's because they're not needed. Kurdish troops known as peshmerga are responsible for keeping order, and do. Yet soldiers don't even go to the Jiyan Hotel anymore for R&R; they go to Kuwait and Qatar instead. And you might think the Americans could use a base in a stable area, if only to focus a little attention there. So what gives? The answer goes a long way toward explaining the delicacy of the U.S. position. America can't afford to accept the offers of its friends in Iraq any more than it can bow to the demands of its enemies—at least not yet.

Very quietly, some tentative planning for American installations in Kurdistan is underway. One site under consideration is the military zone that houses Erbil International Airport. According to the civilian facility's general director, Zaid Zwain, a "large team" from the American military "came to do a security assessment" last April. Harry Schute, who was in charge of an Army civil-affairs unit in northern Iraq until June last year, says that Kurdish leaders have also offered basing facilities at the old Harir air base north of Erbil. "You have a spot that's —right in the thick of things, but that spot is secure and the people are friendly," says Schute. A senior Coalition official, who would speak only on condition that he not be further identified, says the planning is part of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's global strategy to build small, forward bases and to support "islands of stability" in potentially troubled regions.

The Kurds' proffered hospitality is not altruistic. They have a long history of being massacred by their neighbors and betrayed by their friends (including the United States). Since 1991, however, the Americans have provided fairly consistent protection, and the Kurds have developed their economy and their fledgling democracy. Since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in 2003, many have dared to dream of an even closer alliance that would serve to protect them further.

That's probably more of a commitment than the United States wants to make at this point. For starters, it would further anger and alienate the Shiite and Sunni Arabs of Iraq, and imperil any hopes of building an effective national government. Iraq's neighbors would be equally wary. Iran wouldn't look kindly on U.S. bases anywhere on its borders, and already has concerns about unrest stirred among its Kurds by the satellite TV stations broadcasting from northern Iraq. Turkey, itself a close U.S. ally, has opposed every increment in Iraqi Kurdish autonomy, fearing Kurds in Turkey would make the same demands.

Iraq's Kurds are not relying solely on the U.S. for their security. Since the fall of Saddam, more than $800 million worth of construction contracts have been given out to Turkish companies. Yet tens of thousands of Turkish troops remain positioned near the border, and Ankara continues to press Washington to do something about Kurdish rebels operating from northern Iraq. So far, the U.S. military has shied away from that. But the United States may have to act if it wants to get Ankara's blessing to build bases in Turkey's backyard.

As Kurdistan cultivates its image of tranquillity, launching a TV ad campaign next month beckoning investors to "Kurdistan, the Other Iraq," the temptation for the American military is bound to grow. "If you think about a withdrawal strategy, it would make a lot of sense," says Peter Galbraith, a former American ambassador who advises the Kurdish leadership. U.S. forces could still deploy quickly and effectively from Kurdish areas, but wouldn't be an in-your-face incitement to resentful Sunni or Shiite Arabs. And they'd be staying the course, still inside the country. "If you get out of Iraq completely," says Galbraith, "you'll never go back." Until then, it seems, the United States has no better friends than the Kurds in their mountains.
 
Nice to read something good about Iraq, and our military....Thank's
 
Lefty Wilbury said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9629606/site/newsweek/

Friends in the Mountains
Northern Iraq is a stable land where people love America and Americans. So why doesn't the U.S. military make itself at home?

By Babak Dehghanpisheh and Christopher Dickey
Newsweek

Oct. 17, 2005 issue - For a brief spell last year, small groups of American soldiers fresh off the battlefields of Fallujah and Samarra got a chance to rest and relax at the Jiyan Hotel in the highlands of Iraq. They could swim laps, play tennis, shoot pool and generally just chill as they looked out on the dramatic snow-covered peaks that have always been the refuge of the Kurds. ("We have no friends but the mountains" is a well-known Kurdish proverb.) Kids mobbed the soldiers, asking for candy; adults began every conversation with "My friend." Indeed, there are few places anywhere in the world these days where American troops get a warmer welcome.

When you hear that Iraqis are sick of the U.S. occupation, remember the Kurds. They love the U.S.A. They want these American occupiers, and really do think of them as liberators. Top Kurdish officials have practically begged the U.S. military to make itself at home in their land. "I do not ask that Americans build bases in Kurdistan—I demand it," says Abdel Beg Perwani, a Kurdish member of Iraq's Parliament and deputy head of the defense committee.

It gets better: Kurdistan is the one area of Iraq that's stable and prosperous. "People feel good," says Stafford Clarry, an adviser to the regional government who previously worked for the United Nations. "It's just money, money, money." With the approach of a referendum on Iraq's national constitution on Oct. 15, bombs were going off to the south in Baghdad, Taji and Al Hillah, killing scores of people and wounding hundreds. But the Kurds were in a festive mood. "It's going to be embarrassing," says Clarry of the referendum. In Kurdistan, "there's probably going to be a 97 percent turnout."

So why are U.S. soldiers rare sights in the Kurdish north? In part, it's because they're not needed. Kurdish troops known as peshmerga are responsible for keeping order, and do. Yet soldiers don't even go to the Jiyan Hotel anymore for R&R; they go to Kuwait and Qatar instead. And you might think the Americans could use a base in a stable area, if only to focus a little attention there. So what gives? The answer goes a long way toward explaining the delicacy of the U.S. position. America can't afford to accept the offers of its friends in Iraq any more than it can bow to the demands of its enemies—at least not yet.

Very quietly, some tentative planning for American installations in Kurdistan is underway. One site under consideration is the military zone that houses Erbil International Airport. According to the civilian facility's general director, Zaid Zwain, a "large team" from the American military "came to do a security assessment" last April. Harry Schute, who was in charge of an Army civil-affairs unit in northern Iraq until June last year, says that Kurdish leaders have also offered basing facilities at the old Harir air base north of Erbil. "You have a spot that's —right in the thick of things, but that spot is secure and the people are friendly," says Schute. A senior Coalition official, who would speak only on condition that he not be further identified, says the planning is part of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's global strategy to build small, forward bases and to support "islands of stability" in potentially troubled regions.

The Kurds' proffered hospitality is not altruistic. They have a long history of being massacred by their neighbors and betrayed by their friends (including the United States). Since 1991, however, the Americans have provided fairly consistent protection, and the Kurds have developed their economy and their fledgling democracy. Since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in 2003, many have dared to dream of an even closer alliance that would serve to protect them further.

That's probably more of a commitment than the United States wants to make at this point. For starters, it would further anger and alienate the Shiite and Sunni Arabs of Iraq, and imperil any hopes of building an effective national government. Iraq's neighbors would be equally wary. Iran wouldn't look kindly on U.S. bases anywhere on its borders, and already has concerns about unrest stirred among its Kurds by the satellite TV stations broadcasting from northern Iraq. Turkey, itself a close U.S. ally, has opposed every increment in Iraqi Kurdish autonomy, fearing Kurds in Turkey would make the same demands.

Iraq's Kurds are not relying solely on the U.S. for their security. Since the fall of Saddam, more than $800 million worth of construction contracts have been given out to Turkish companies. Yet tens of thousands of Turkish troops remain positioned near the border, and Ankara continues to press Washington to do something about Kurdish rebels operating from northern Iraq. So far, the U.S. military has shied away from that. But the United States may have to act if it wants to get Ankara's blessing to build bases in Turkey's backyard.

As Kurdistan cultivates its image of tranquillity, launching a TV ad campaign next month beckoning investors to "Kurdistan, the Other Iraq," the temptation for the American military is bound to grow. "If you think about a withdrawal strategy, it would make a lot of sense," says Peter Galbraith, a former American ambassador who advises the Kurdish leadership. U.S. forces could still deploy quickly and effectively from Kurdish areas, but wouldn't be an in-your-face incitement to resentful Sunni or Shiite Arabs. And they'd be staying the course, still inside the country. "If you get out of Iraq completely," says Galbraith, "you'll never go back." Until then, it seems, the United States has no better friends than the Kurds in their mountains.

Damn straight! I like the Kurds now :)
 
It is quite a good article. It portrays the difficult decisions we have to make in regards to Iraq and the broader Middle East, while offering a compelling vision for the future at the end for the American presence.

Obviously, a VERY RARE gem from Newsweek.

The Kurds are the Arab Israelis.
 
Yes, I think the Kurds love a free society as much as the Israelis do, and they have proven that democracy can work in the Middle East if given a fair chance.
 
Adam's Apple said:
Yes, I think the Kurds love a free society as much as the Israelis do, and they have proven that democracy can work in the Middle East if given a fair chance.

If we can avoid making the same mistakes that the English and the French made when they attempted to divide this area up amongst themselves, pehaps the Kurds will remain our friends.
 
I have read the article and read your comments and posts...


In accordance to your yuhu-happy coments i am not going to post facts that crushes your "views" of democratic Kurds.

Therefore i will only write about security-policies.




It is only Turkish link, but it relies on MIT (Turkish-Intelligence) sources....
http://www.tempodergisi.com.tr/toplum_politika/09069/


It says, that to PKK-Terrorists there have been given Kurdistan-Passes.
Last days a top PKK-Terrorists wanted to pass German boarders to Germany with this passport and was rejected, because Kurdistan-Passes aren't accepted by Germans.
These passes are given to Terrorists to ease international movement...
And sickering in to Turkey.



Look here: this was Months ago, were Terrorists demanded passports from Barzani
http://www.zaman.com/?hn=24246&bl=national

Now he cooperates with Terrorists, which is nothin new.



So: what to do now?
Should Turkey shut boarders with Iraq or let boarders open for a regional government which supports Terrorists?


When Turkey shuts boarders, who is going to suplly American soldiers in Iraq?

Questions over questions.


Yesterday turkish newspapers reported that George Bush invited Barzani to Washington after referendum.

So what should turkey think USA inviting Tribal leaders of family-clans to Washington, which support Terrorists and give them passports?
 
canavar said:
I have read the article and read your comments and posts...


In accordance to your yuhu-happy coments i am not going to post facts that crushes your "views" of democratic Kurds.

Therefore i will only write about security-policies.




It is only Turkish link, but it relies on MIT (Turkish-Intelligence) sources....
http://www.tempodergisi.com.tr/toplum_politika/09069/


It says, that to PKK-Terrorists there have been given Kurdistan-Passes.
Last days a top PKK-Terrorists wanted to pass German boarders to Germany with this passport and was rejected, because Kurdistan-Passes aren't accepted by Germans.
These passes are given to Terrorists to ease international movement...
And sickering in to Turkey.



Look here: this was Months ago, were Terrorists demanded passports from Barzani
http://www.zaman.com/?hn=24246&bl=national

Now he cooperates with Terrorists, which is nothin new.



So: what to do now?
Should Turkey shut boarders with Iraq or let boarders open for a regional government which supports Terrorists?


When Turkey shuts boarders, who is going to suplly American soldiers in Iraq?

Questions over questions.


Yesterday turkish newspapers reported that George Bush invited Barzani to Washington after referendum.

So what should turkey think USA inviting Tribal leaders of family-clans to Washington, which support Terrorists and give them passports?

This goes tight back to where we started ..... I'm hardly going to take the word of a Turk where Kurds are concerned. Perhaps Turkey should open its collective eyes and look at their options for neighbors where control of Iraq is concerned.

IMO, you let your ethnic bias cloud your judgment. I'd rather have Kurds on my border than another Fundamental Islamic regime.
 
GunnyL said:
This goes tight back to where we started ..... I'm hardly going to take the word of a Turk where Kurds are concerned. Perhaps Turkey should open its collective eyes and look at their options for neighbors where control of Iraq is concerned.

IMO, you let your ethnic bias cloud your judgment. I'd rather have Kurds on my border than another Fundamental Islamic regime.


what ethnic bias?

didn't i say in my previous post, that i only will rely on security policies, so why you are starting with ethnics?



Perhaps Turkey should open its collective eyes and look at their options for neighbors where control of Iraq is concerned.

then bring clearness to this, don't know what you mean.
Whether Turkey did or did not support the US in Iraq can not in any way justify allowing terrorist groups to operate against Turkey from areas under direct US control.
Understand?

If a neighboring country is not doing anything about preventing terrorist activities against your own country you can go in there yourself and get the job done
Terrorism is a global problem. Not having a say in what goes on in Iraq does not mean that Turkey has to tolerate the flow of terrorists into its own borders from training camps in Northern Iraq.
Understand?

So as long regional tribal-clans, whom you call democrats assist Anti-Turkish terrorists and give them passports, nobody has the right to push Turkey for seeing those Regions in "collective eyes" as friendly regions.



I'd rather have Kurds on my border than another Fundamental Islamic regime.
yes, of course. Because Turkey is a fundemental Islamic state therefore EU is opening Accession-talks with Turkey.
So why are you discussing in these primitive language?

So when you think, turkish denial on 3rd march 2003 has to do anything with ISlam, then you make it too easy. And this statement by you shows in which dimensions you see the world.
Did you question yourself, where all the supplies for US-Army comes from?
Think about it.

As a reminder, most of the truck drivers in Iraq as well as other skilled laborers are Turkish, so while current Turkey is in your view "Islamo-fascist" the average Turk is putting his neck out every day for US-Supply.

After March-denial of troop deployment, Turkey offered USA skilled Terror-fighting SAT-Kommandos.
Ask your kurdish friends why Iraq pressured USA to say no for this offer, where Terrorist-fighting Soldiers are needed primarily in Iraq.

You concentrate only on your own agenda. And here you overlook that Iraq becoming democracy and a stable peacefull future has to be conform to Turkey.
When Turkey comes to the point to say "Fuck you whole IRAQ" and quits all cooperation with US and Bagdad, then we will see, which future IRAQ will turn to.
IRAN? S.Arabia?

You see us as islamo-fascist where we are secularists. From problems which the whole world faces in 21 century it is unavoidable that IRAQ gets close ties with secularist turkey. A Turkey which began to look west for over 190 years, leaving a path behind her which can lead other countries to same Point, where Turkey is today.
Remember Iraq is not only Kurds. And Iraq is not the only country in problem-delivering Middle EAst..

You see, things are much more complicated.
As i said, you have your own agenda... And this agenda is to be pushed quickly as possible as Bush is getting pressure (exit-strategy)...
And here lies US problem in Iraq. doing something quickly makes door open for mistakes.
Its the same thing with Rumsfeld:"Iraqis will welcome us with flowers (shock&awe).



I am convinced USA will do nothing in IRAQ which is against turkish interests in long terms. You, i mean the non-Government US-citizens see Turkey only in your view, and make your comments in the USA-IRAQ-Turkey triangle.
Here you overlook this:

Turkey provided unlimited support to the US. It immediately accepted command of the NATO force in Afghanistan and commited thousands of troops to the region and provided the US with all intelligence at its disposal to assist in the hunt for bin Ladin and the attack on the Taliban. This support continues to this day. Turkey took ISAF-2 and ISAF-3 because non other NATO-member was capable of doing this job at this time. The highest NATO official in Afghanistan is Turkish.

So, this was only one point where i showed US-Turkish cooperation.
I can go furthermore with Turkeys EU-Membership (trojan Horse) and the turkish Oil Terminal at ceyhan, where the future oil from our Central asian Turkishbrothers will flow to.

When you are intersted, i can post much more, to show our common cooperation.
Like Eric Edelman, former US-Ambassador to Turkey, and now Pentagons Nr3 said:
It is time to look forward.


I have no doubt, that this PKK terrorists in Northern-Iraq will crushed in the near future. Reason, why USA doesn't crush PKK at this time is: --->

Crushing the PKK, which is a Terror-organization accepted by USA, would lead to Kurdish upset in Northern-Iraq. You are at present in big trouble and this would lead to more trouble as Kurds in N.Iraq backs PKK.

But this is temporarily.
I do not deny that in Turkey is Anti-americanism.
Yes, there is anti-americanism. But has nothing to do with ISLAM but with Patriotism, seeing your own soldiers burried where the solvement of this problem is 100 KM away and USA is not acting against PKK.
Nothing to do with ISLAM.

When PKK is bombed to Lucifer, anti-americanism in turkey will fly away.
So, as long you do not act against PKK, you are shooting in your own knees haveing a share in causing this USA-feelings in Turkey.




Look: Turkey said no to you, and you are literally bleeding because of this (no sarcasm here and please do not see it as anti-american comment)....
You cannot count one Kurdish Peshmerga one to one with Turkish soldier.
When you think, Kurds with AK-47 will help you transform the Mideast to Democracies which means Secularism, then go and push your president for an Kurdish state. And write more exit-strategy "Kurdistan"-newspaper-articles.
But then Bush and Rice have to delete Turkey in their speeches as showing turkey for a model (meaning Turkish participation in further plans).

Understand?
From this view i am convinced, that US-Turkish Alliance will soon again become strong and face the real problems. Everything is temporrily and Kurds are your temporarily allies. And they will be sacrificed first in this Chess-game-world.
Kurds now this. And as long they have USA support, they try to push much of their own agenda knowing, that times will come where they are in no position to push anything

Turkish denial of IRAQ-war did not helped Turkey and did affect you with a big impact as Rumfsfeld thought it would not have an Impact to Holiday-trip to Iraq. But in CBS-Interview he changed his mind blameing Turkey for dead GIs as execuses for American TV-Nation.
Turkey is not responsible for dead GIs. Turkey does not command your army or makes your Rumfsfeld-plans.
 
1.

Israel has the right to do every airforce maneuver within turkish airspace. Same for turkey in israel airspace.
It is granted to Israel to make spy-missions to Iran via Turkish airspace.

Source:
Alan Makovsky, “Turkish-Israeli Relations in the Context of Israeli-Arab Tensions,” Policy Watch
No.502 (Washington D.C.: Washington Institute Near East Policy, 10 November 2000). Available online:
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/turkey/.




2.

because of this Iran is fearing that from turkish airspace there will be attacks on IRAN

Source:
Quelle:
Hossein Aryan, “Missile development and Iranian Security,” Jane’s Intelligence Review,
1 September 2001. Available online: www.janesonline.com.

+

Jane’s Sentinel Security Assessment-The Gulf States-10,” Jane’s Online, 29 October 2001. Available
online: www.janesonline.com.




3.

in 1998 turkish ambassador said in Washington: "When Iraq attacks Israel with missiles, Turkish airspace is open for attacks to IRAQ"

Source:
Ed Blanche, “ Israel and Turkey Look to Extend Their Influence into Central Asia,” Jane’s Intelligence




4.

for 99% sure. Israeli attacks on Iran will be made through turkish airspace.
read why:

The air force training exchange agreement signed between Turkey and Israel in 1996 calls for Israeli aircraft to train in Turkey four times a year. These flight trainings enable the Israelis to gain experience flying long-range missions over mountainous areas -a skill that would be necessary for missions over Iran,
and provide greater opportunities for overland training than are available in a small country like Israel. Such exercises also enable both air forces to become familiar with procedures and tactics used by their counterparts. This familiarity could potentially facilitate cooperation in wartime. In the air, Turkey could
allow damaged Israeli aircraft to land at Turkish air bases and permit Israeli combat search and rescue crews trained to rescue the downed pilots to operate from its soil. This would allow the Israeli air force to be more aggressive and take greater risks. It could also allow Israel to use Turkish air bases to launch
manned and unmanned reconnaissance flights over Syria and Iran. It could likewise allow Israeli attack helicopters, aircraft, and commandos operating from Turkish staging areas hunting missile launchers in Syria, Iran and Iraq. It could also allow Israel to use the series of air bases in its border with Syria and Iran
for combat missions, raising the possibility of attacks against both. For a detailed analysis of the military aspects of the Turkish-Israeli Military cooperation, see Michael Eisenstadt, “Turkish-Israeli Military
Cooperation: An Assessment, ” PolicyWatch # 262 (Washington D.C.: Washington Institute Near East
Policy, 24 July 1997). Available online: http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/turkey/.


5.

Iran and Turkey are at present at unofficial war.
Iran supports Terrororganization who killed over hundreds of turkish diplomats over the past decades. (Hizbullah)


Source:
“Turkish-Iranian Tension: A New Regional Flashpoint? ” PolicyWatch #404,
(Washington D.C.: Washington Institute for Near East Policy, 9 August 1999).

Also see Ersel Aydinli

“Implications of Turkey's Anti-Hizbullah Operation,” PolicyWatch #439 (Washington D.C.: Washington
Institute Near East Policy, 9 February 2000). Available online: http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/turkey/.



6.

1996 there were press-articles, news-articles, that said that Iran is developing Bio-weapons and could supply Terrororganizations to harm Kemalistic Turkey with these weapons, who then attack Turkish soldiers in Afghaniostan

Source:
“Turkey Fears Anthrax Attack,” Middle East
Available online: www.menewsline.com.




7.

A nuclear-armed Iran would be in a position to claim leadership of the Islamic world, and to exercise increased influence on Turkish domestic
politics to the detriment of Turkey’s Western-type secular democratic
regime and western-oriented foreign policy.


Source:
Duygu Bazoglu Sezer, “Turkey’s New Security Environment, Nuclear Weapons and Proliferation,”
Comparative Strategy, vol. 14, no. 2, Spring-Summer 1995, pp. 165.





We will assist Israel on every step they take.
Will we assist USA?
We will see... The only thing i know is that in 2 last months many Generals of USA came to Turkey. And assistandec like Hadley, too, as Bush is pressuring IRAN.
I think, this time, where America sees what war in the region means without Turkeys assistance, i am sure Rumfsfeld and Co. will not behave with Cowboy-mentality in Ankara.

Our Cooperation with Iran and Syria is only beacuse of US-Kurds Aliiance.
Answer yourself, if Kurds will be the right persons for your future plans.
 
canavar said:
what ethnic bias?

didn't i say in my previous post, that i only will rely on security policies, so why you are starting with ethnics?





then bring clearness to this, don't know what you mean.
Whether Turkey did or did not support the US in Iraq can not in any way justify allowing terrorist groups to operate against Turkey from areas under direct US control.
Understand?

If a neighboring country is not doing anything about preventing terrorist activities against your own country you can go in there yourself and get the job done
Terrorism is a global problem. Not having a say in what goes on in Iraq does not mean that Turkey has to tolerate the flow of terrorists into its own borders from training camps in Northern Iraq.
Understand?

So as long regional tribal-clans, whom you call democrats assist Anti-Turkish terrorists and give them passports, nobody has the right to push Turkey for seeing those Regions in "collective eyes" as friendly regions.




yes, of course. Because Turkey is a fundemental Islamic state therefore EU is opening Accession-talks with Turkey.
So why are you discussing in these primitive language?

So when you think, turkish denial on 3rd march 2003 has to do anything with ISlam, then you make it too easy. And this statement by you shows in which dimensions you see the world.
Did you question yourself, where all the supplies for US-Army comes from?
Think about it.

As a reminder, most of the truck drivers in Iraq as well as other skilled laborers are Turkish, so while current Turkey is in your view "Islamo-fascist" the average Turk is putting his neck out every day for US-Supply.

After March-denial of troop deployment, Turkey offered USA skilled Terror-fighting SAT-Kommandos.
Ask your kurdish friends why Iraq pressured USA to say no for this offer, where Terrorist-fighting Soldiers are needed primarily in Iraq.

You concentrate only on your own agenda. And here you overlook that Iraq becoming democracy and a stable peacefull future has to be conform to Turkey.
When Turkey comes to the point to say "Fuck you whole IRAQ" and quits all cooperation with US and Bagdad, then we will see, which future IRAQ will turn to.
IRAN? S.Arabia?

You see us as islamo-fascist where we are secularists. From problems which the whole world faces in 21 century it is unavoidable that IRAQ gets close ties with secularist turkey. A Turkey which began to look west for over 190 years, leaving a path behind her which can lead other countries to same Point, where Turkey is today.
Remember Iraq is not only Kurds. And Iraq is not the only country in problem-delivering Middle EAst..

You see, things are much more complicated.
As i said, you have your own agenda... And this agenda is to be pushed quickly as possible as Bush is getting pressure (exit-strategy)...
And here lies US problem in Iraq. doing something quickly makes door open for mistakes.
Its the same thing with Rumsfeld:"Iraqis will welcome us with flowers (shock&awe).



I am convinced USA will do nothing in IRAQ which is against turkish interests in long terms. You, i mean the non-Government US-citizens see Turkey only in your view, and make your comments in the USA-IRAQ-Turkey triangle.
Here you overlook this:

Turkey provided unlimited support to the US. It immediately accepted command of the NATO force in Afghanistan and commited thousands of troops to the region and provided the US with all intelligence at its disposal to assist in the hunt for bin Ladin and the attack on the Taliban. This support continues to this day. Turkey took ISAF-2 and ISAF-3 because non other NATO-member was capable of doing this job at this time. The highest NATO official in Afghanistan is Turkish.

So, this was only one point where i showed US-Turkish cooperation.
I can go furthermore with Turkeys EU-Membership (trojan Horse) and the turkish Oil Terminal at ceyhan, where the future oil from our Central asian Turkishbrothers will flow to.

When you are intersted, i can post much more, to show our common cooperation.
Like Eric Edelman, former US-Ambassador to Turkey, and now Pentagons Nr3 said:
It is time to look forward.


I have no doubt, that this PKK terrorists in Northern-Iraq will crushed in the near future. Reason, why USA doesn't crush PKK at this time is: --->

Crushing the PKK, which is a Terror-organization accepted by USA, would lead to Kurdish upset in Northern-Iraq. You are at present in big trouble and this would lead to more trouble as Kurds in N.Iraq backs PKK.

But this is temporarily.
I do not deny that in Turkey is Anti-americanism.
Yes, there is anti-americanism. But has nothing to do with ISLAM but with Patriotism, seeing your own soldiers burried where the solvement of this problem is 100 KM away and USA is not acting against PKK.
Nothing to do with ISLAM.

When PKK is bombed to Lucifer, anti-americanism in turkey will fly away.
So, as long you do not act against PKK, you are shooting in your own knees haveing a share in causing this USA-feelings in Turkey.




Look: Turkey said no to you, and you are literally bleeding because of this (no sarcasm here and please do not see it as anti-american comment)....
You cannot count one Kurdish Peshmerga one to one with Turkish soldier.
When you think, Kurds with AK-47 will help you transform the Mideast to Democracies which means Secularism, then go and push your president for an Kurdish state. And write more exit-strategy "Kurdistan"-newspaper-articles.
But then Bush and Rice have to delete Turkey in their speeches as showing turkey for a model (meaning Turkish participation in further plans).

Understand?
From this view i am convinced, that US-Turkish Alliance will soon again become strong and face the real problems. Everything is temporrily and Kurds are your temporarily allies. And they will be sacrificed first in this Chess-game-world.
Kurds now this. And as long they have USA support, they try to push much of their own agenda knowing, that times will come where they are in no position to push anything

Turkish denial of IRAQ-war did not helped Turkey and did affect you with a big impact as Rumfsfeld thought it would not have an Impact to Holiday-trip to Iraq. But in CBS-Interview he changed his mind blameing Turkey for dead GIs as execuses for American TV-Nation.
Turkey is not responsible for dead GIs. Turkey does not command your army or makes your Rumfsfeld-plans.

You don't appear to be responding to anything that was written. What I am reading from you, besides the fact that you think Turkey is some force to be reckoned with, is that you are calling the Kurds in Northern Iraq terrorists.

Well, first, I lived in your little dustbowl for two years and you can have it.

Second, the Kurds in Northern Iraq has been a damned-sight friendlier than your government has lately. Maybe if Turkey would pull its head out of the EU's ass trying to get a memebership card and look around, y'all'd see there's a war going on. If you don't have the stones to be for or agaisnt us, STAY THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY.
 
GunnyL said:
What I am reading from you, besides the fact that you think Turkey is some force to be reckoned with, is that you are calling the Kurds in Northern Iraq terrorists.

Some are, but they are refugees from Turkey.
 
GunnyL said:
You don't appear to be responding to anything that was written. What I am reading from you, besides the fact that you think Turkey is some force to be reckoned with, is that you are calling the Kurds in Northern Iraq terrorists.

Well, first, I lived in your little dustbowl for two years and you can have it.

Second, the Kurds in Northern Iraq has been a damned-sight friendlier than your government has lately. Maybe if Turkey would pull its head out of the EU's ass trying to get a memebership card and look around, y'all'd see there's a war going on. If you don't have the stones to be for or agaisnt us, STAY THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY.


Barzani and Talabani flew until the war in Iraq with turkish red-diplomats Passports through the world ;)

By Bush Senior war, Turkey opened its boarders for over 500,000 Kurdish refugees from Iraq and delivered them with water, medicine, and food.

And today they are giving us respect for this humanity goodwill with harbouring and assisting Terrorists. And giving them passports.


your little dustbowl for two years and you can have it
You have a strange view.

Look Here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=178804

This year over 20 Million tourists came to Turkey...

Dustbowl?
Hahaha. Turkey is one of those countries in the world which is most waterfilled.

Even EUPHRAT AND TIGRIS come from Turkey.
We build Dams with GAP-Project.
http://www.gap.gov.tr/index_en.php

we are able to stop water-flow for about 13 months southwards.


How about stopping rivers flowing in to Northern-Iraq?


STAY THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY

I don't think, you are in Bush-Government, to tell anyone to shut up or stay away.
Man, you are really blind, defining Turkey only with its stance towards Iraq.
We will see who has the longer breath. Kurds and their fictionous Kurdistan or Turkey.

As is said before, Kurds will fall first. Not by Turkeys Hand, but by your governments hand. Latest when IRAN is on the table.
Think about it.
 
GunnyL said:
Maybe if Turkey would pull its head out of the EU's ass trying to get a memebership card

does your thinking dimension allow to think, that an pro-US Turkey in EU will benefit USA plans ? i didn't write Trojan horse for joke.

UK+Poland+Turkey.. mixing up old-europe.

:halo:
 
canavar said:
Barzani and Talabani flew until the war in Iraq with turkish red-diplomats Passports through the world ;)

By Bush Senior war, Turkey opened its boarders for over 500,000 Kurdish refugees from Iraq and delivered them with water, medicine, and food.

And today they are giving us respect for this humanity goodwill with harbouring and assisting Terrorists. And giving them passports.



You have a strange view.

Look Here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=178804

This year over 20 Million tourists came to Turkey...

Dustbowl?
Hahaha. Turkey is one of those countries in the world which is most waterfilled.

Even EUPHRAT AND TIGRIS come from Turkey.
We build Dams with GAP-Project.
http://www.gap.gov.tr/index_en.php

we are able to stop water-flow for about 13 months southwards.


How about stopping rivers flowing in to Northern-Iraq?




I don't think, you are in Bush-Government, to tell anyone to shut up or stay away.
Man, you are really blind, defining Turkey only with its stance towards Iraq.
We will see who has the longer breath. Kurds and their fictionous Kurdistan or Turkey.

As is said before, Kurds will fall first. Not by Turkeys Hand, but by your governments hand. Latest when IRAN is on the table.
Think about it.

So, you Turkish man, you're supporting a country that commited one of the worst cases of Genocide in history against the Armenians? Turkey, a force to be reckoned with? You gotta be kidding me....you all were and from how you represent them still are a bunch of murderers, I know a bunch of Armenians who would love to get their hands on some Turks, so please come to D.C. for a visit, you'll see who the hell is a force to be reckoned with.
 
USMCDevilDog said:
So, you Turkish man, you're supporting a country that commited one of the worst cases of Genocide in history against the Armenians? Turkey, a force to be reckoned with? You gotta be kidding me....you all were and from how you represent them still are a bunch of murderers, I know a bunch of Armenians who would love to get their hands on some Turks, so please come to D.C. for a visit, you'll see who the hell is a force to be reckoned with.


Have Armenians any meaning to this thread?

So, your posts are to be understood as a threat to me?

How old are you?
 

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