French regaining military pride

[Munin]

Its somewhat good for a Nation like france to regain military pride, they re a Nation with a military history that isn't matched by any nation on this planet: They should be proud of their military.

(youtube = french military victories part 1/2)



(youtube = french military victories part 2/2)
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH67_RqNlGE&feature=related]YouTube - French Military Victories (part 2/2)[/ame]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_History_of_France

If sometime in the future the Libyan opposition win and come to power in Tripoli, they might consider a statue to the French president. There could be a Sarkozy Square or even a boulevard named after him.

There is no doubt that the French leader, with his renowned energy, was the key player in driving through a UN resolution that now allows "all necessary measures" to be used to protect civilians in Libya. He was undeterred by a divided EU and a G8 palpably unenthusiastic about any military action.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy

It's not that he acted alone. David Cameron was an ally, working the phones to get the votes in New York. But as Francois Baroin, Sarkozy's spokesman said, it was "the French who led the calls for action". The French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe travelled to New York to lobby the UN ambassadors.

Go back a week ago. The EU was hopelessly split. The Germans were implacably opposed to intervening. To the obvious irritation of the French president, EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton and her team were seen to be briefing against a no-fly zone which they said could not be implemented for weeks. The European heads of government could not even stomach using the words "no fly zone" in a final communique. Likewise a meeting of the G8 in Paris firmly rejected using force.

So what happened? Firstly, the decision by the Arab League to back a no-fly zone was a game changer. It gave the West crucial political cover.

Secondly, it was the rapid counter-offensive by Gaddafi's forces that focused minds, particularly in Washington. The Obama administration had hesitated, reluctant to use its power in another Arab nation. But if Gaddafi won it would have been asked in Washington: "Who lost Libya?" And around the world, Obama would have been seen to have failed the Arab spring.

The French and the British worked on getting key countries like China to abstain, while ensuring other Arab nations like Qatar and the UAE would join any action.

There are some observations that can be made. Without US leadership there is drift. The EU is ill-suited for taking decisive action. To some people it has failed to learn the lessons of the Balkans. It seeks a stronger voice on the world stage but fails to understand the importance of hard power.

We had a situation where some Europeans were frustrated with Washington. Some in the American capital were bemoaning the fact that all this was happening in Europe's back yard - and where was Europe? "It's high time that Europeans stopped exporting their own responsibilities to Washington," said Nick Witney from the European Council on Foreign Relations. "If the West fails on Libya, it will be primarily a European failure."

In the end it was the French and British who filled the vacuum and with the wind of the Arab League behind them secured a UN resolution.
French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe raises his hand to vote in favour of a UN resolution on Libya

That was hard. What lies ahead may be harder. As of writing we don't know whether this will principally be a French/British operation. The Americans are briefing that no immediate US action is expected.

It should be possible to stop Gaddafi's planes from flying. But that may not in itself change the reality on the ground. Combat air patrols might be able to target his forces heading, say, for Benghazi. But very quickly Libyan forces will operate from within city perimeters and they will be difficult to dislodge without risking wider civilian casualties.

And say Benghazi is spared, Gaddafi won't relinquish his grip on other places. You might have a ceasefire of sorts but the world could be left with a divided Libya with Gaddafi still in power. After pushing for action, would Paris and London be prepared to see the Gaddafi family in control of much of Western Libya, albeit unable to use aggression against his own people?

The logic will be to arm and train the opposition. Does that fall under "all necessary measures"? And so the risk of mission creep...

We know with any military action that plans are quickly torn up. The unpredictable occurs. Although there will be no boots on the ground, getting into a country is always easier than getting out.

What is the exit strategy? When is it "job done"? When is it "mission accomplished"? Is this an operation to end the fighting or to finish off the Gaddafi regime? All difficult questions that lie ahead.

But today the French will say they have won a battle for intervention. As Alain Juppe, the French foreign minister said: "We cannot allow these warmongers to go on. We cannot let international law be flouted."

 

[HUGGY]

Ya..that Maginot line was really something!

Maginot Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No major country has ever been defeated so soundly and quickly...EVER!

 

[Munin]

Ya..that Maginot line was really something!

Maginot Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No major country has ever been defeated so soundly and quickly...EVER!

You re misinformed: Poland, Luxembourg, Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium fell quicker.

The reason for the French defeat was the huge toll of WWI. Some of the biggest warbattles in history took place during WWI.





Did you know that the same French military engineering is the reason for the US anthem to exist? (not only the anthem btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War )

(youtube = Ground Warfare - Command and Control 3/4 )
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-0o257vj0Q&NR=1]YouTube - Ground Warfare - Command and Control 3/4[/ame]

"The Star-Spangled Banner" is the national anthem of the United States of America. The lyrics come from "Defence of Fort McHenry",[1] a poem written in 1814 by the 35-year-old lawyer and amateur poet, Francis Scott Key, after witnessing the bombardment of Fort McHenry by the British Royal Navy ships in Chesapeake Bay during the Battle of Fort McHenry in the War of 1812.

The Star-Spangled Banner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fort McHenry, in Baltimore, Maryland, is a star shaped fort best known for its role in the War of 1812 when it successfully defended Baltimore Harbor from an attack by the British navy in the Chesapeake Bay. It was during this bombardment of the fort that Francis Scott Key was inspired to write "The Star-Spangled Banner", the poem that would eventually be set to the tune of the "To Anacreon in Heaven", to become the national anthem of the United States.

Designed by Frenchman Jean Foncin

Fort McHenry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ekrem]

The article you quote is from BBC's Gavin Hewitt.
He already has stepped back from that specific article in his recent writings, he doesn't write about France being the key country in Libya.

To your claim, that France has an unmatched military history is bogus.
French and Brits mainly fought against Bush-Man from the 3rd World who were equipped with wooden weapons.
The Germans always tried to subdue the other Europeans and seek supremacy on mainland Europe. It's a total different mindset.

 

[Munin]

The article you quote is from BBC's Gavin Hewitt.
He already has stepped back from that specific article in his recent writings, he doesn't write about France being the key country in Libya.

To your claim, that France has an unmatched military history is bogus.
French and Brits mainly fought against Bush-Man from the 3rd World who were equipped with wooden weapons.
The Germans always tried to subdue the other Europeans and seek supremacy on mainland Europe. It's a total different mindset.

Give me a quote that proves that he withdraws his words then. Besides that, it is clear that France is at the forefront of this effort. Your Turkish prime minister will confirm that ;-)

It s not their fault that half of the world were still fighting with sticks, they did conquer half of the world. The fact that they did it with superior weapons is to their credit, would you rather have them do it wooden sticks?

France conquered the whole of Europe just as germany, does the name "Napoleon" ring a bell?

 

[HUGGY]

Ya..that Maginot line was really something!

Maginot Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No major country has ever been defeated so soundly and quickly...EVER!

You re misinformed: Poland, Luxembourg, Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium fell quicker.

The reason for the French defeat was the huge toll of WWI. Some of the biggest warbattles in history took place during WWI.





Did you know that the same French military engineering is the reason for the US anthem to exist? (not only the anthem btw: France in the American Revolutionary War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

(youtube = Ground Warfare - Command and Control 3/4 )
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-0o257vj0Q&NR=1]YouTube - Ground Warfare - Command and Control 3/4[/ame]

"The Star-Spangled Banner" is the national anthem of the United States of America. The lyrics come from "Defence of Fort McHenry",[1] a poem written in 1814 by the 35-year-old lawyer and amateur poet, Francis Scott Key, after witnessing the bombardment of Fort McHenry by the British Royal Navy ships in Chesapeake Bay during the Battle of Fort McHenry in the War of 1812.

The Star-Spangled Banner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fort McHenry, in Baltimore, Maryland, is a star shaped fort best known for its role in the War of 1812 when it successfully defended Baltimore Harbor from an attack by the British navy in the Chesapeake Bay. It was during this bombardment of the fort that Francis Scott Key was inspired to write "The Star-Spangled Banner", the poem that would eventually be set to the tune of the "To Anacreon in Heaven", to become the national anthem of the United States.

Designed by Frenchman Jean Foncin

Fort McHenry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Major countries. Try reading comprehension. When were :..Poland, Luxembourg, Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium considered major countries?

 

[ekrem]

Every Empire has its date of expiry.
Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation was already in the process of disintegration when Napoleon marched through Germany.
Germany was not governed by a centralized power structure at that time.
Some German States fought against Napoleon, some made peace and some aligned with Napoleon.
Same applies to the 1st crusade, where the Christians achieved to march through West-Asia only because of disunity among Muslim governed entities in West-Asia.

Napoleon didn't have total control over the lands he marched through, Kingdoms and Princedoms aligned with France and contributed soldiers to Napoleon's campaigns, mainly Germans from today's West-Germany.
A French-only Army would never have been able to start such a military campaign. This differs from let's say Hitler's Reichswehr, where the Soldiers were solely Germans.

To the Colonization thing:
Germany never participated in Colonial War until the Kaiser took Bismark from his power. Only then Germany engaged in Colonial adventures with access to resources as the primary motivation. German industry outpaced Britain and France and German economy needed resources.
The only other European power to cope with Germany's exponential industrial rise at that time was Russia.

If Germans and Russians govern their lands in unity, no other powers in Europe are a match.

 

[Sallow]

Ya..that Maginot line was really something!

Maginot Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No major country has ever been defeated so soundly and quickly...EVER!

You re misinformed: Poland, Luxembourg, Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium fell quicker.

The reason for the French defeat was the huge toll of WWI. Some of the biggest warbattles in history took place during WWI.





Did you know that the same French military engineering is the reason for the US anthem to exist? (not only the anthem btw: France in the American Revolutionary War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

(youtube = Ground Warfare - Command and Control 3/4 )
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-0o257vj0Q&NR=1]YouTube - Ground Warfare - Command and Control 3/4[/ame]




The Star-Spangled Banner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fort McHenry, in Baltimore, Maryland, is a star shaped fort best known for its role in the War of 1812 when it successfully defended Baltimore Harbor from an attack by the British navy in the Chesapeake Bay. It was during this bombardment of the fort that Francis Scott Key was inspired to write "The Star-Spangled Banner", the poem that would eventually be set to the tune of the "To Anacreon in Heaven", to become the national anthem of the United States.

Designed by Frenchman Jean Foncin

Fort McHenry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Major countries. Try reading comprehension. When were :..Poland, Luxembourg, Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium considered major countries?

You got owned dude.

And the French were..and are pretty kickass...in terms of a fight. One of the best militaries in history.

 

[ekrem]

You got owned dude.

And the French were..and are pretty kickass...in terms of a fight. One of the best militaries in history.

Against 3rd world wooden spears.
Asterix and Obelix are only a myth, the real ones were in the German forests.

 

[code1211]

Ya..that Maginot line was really something!

Maginot Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No major country has ever been defeated so soundly and quickly...EVER!

Nobody enjoys a good joke about the miltary with the French as the punchline more than me. However, French Soldiers have always been among the best. Their leaders, on the other hand, are generally (no pun intended) among the worst.

The Germans mowed the French Down in the Blitzkreig and Napoleon was outclassed by Wellington. The Soldiers, though, bravely followed the flawed orders and, when the orders stopped, fought on their own dying by the tens of thousands for their country.

All of that said, going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without an accordian.

 

[Trajan]

Every Empire has its date of expiry.
Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation was already in the process of disintegration when Napoleon marched through Germany.
Germany was not governed by a centralized power structure at that time.
Some German States fought against Napoleon, some made peace and some aligned with Napoleon.

the Austrians put up a huge fight in 1809, and came back to help defeat nap. in 1813 and 14.

yes the Confederation of the Rhine took Napoleons side as a hedge after he defeated the Austrians in 1805, then crushed Prussia in 1806.

Same applies to the 1st crusade, where the Christians achieved to march through West-Asia only because of disunity among Muslim governed entities in West-Asia.

I'll let that pass since we are talking french only...

Napoleon didn't have total control over the lands he marched through, Kingdoms and Princedoms aligned with France and contributed soldiers to Napoleon's campaigns, mainly Germans from today's West-Germany.

see above.

A French-only Army would never have been able to start such a military campaign. This differs from let's say Hitler's Reichswehr, where the Soldiers were solely Germans.

if you are saying the standing armies of the rhine-bund even if they would have aligned with Prussia, would have defeated napoleon, I have an issue with that.

To the Colonization thing:
Germany never participated in Colonial War until the Kaiser took Bismark from his power. Only then Germany engaged in Colonial adventures with access to resources as the primary motivation. German industry outpaced Britain and France and German economy needed resources.
The only other European power to cope with Germany's exponential industrial rise at that time was Russia.

If Germans and Russians govern their lands in unity, no other powers in Europe are a match.

 

[Trajan]

the "french" since their "national' advent generally recognized as the birth of the Merovingian dynasty, the crux being Clovis's reign in the late 5th and early 6th century, being turned into a Christian via the machinations of Clotilda, creating the alignment of the Riparian, Burgundian and Salian Franks, has in sustained history a glorious military tradition matched by no one.

 

[RadiomanATL]

So the french are surrendering their white flag?

 

[Trajan]

I am shutting down your webz.

 

[RadiomanATL]

I am shutting down your webz.

 

[HUGGY]

You re misinformed: Poland, Luxembourg, Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium fell quicker.

The reason for the French defeat was the huge toll of WWI. Some of the biggest warbattles in history took place during WWI.





Did you know that the same French military engineering is the reason for the US anthem to exist? (not only the anthem btw: France in the American Revolutionary War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

(youtube = Ground Warfare - Command and Control 3/4 )
YouTube - Ground Warfare - Command and Control 3/4




The Star-Spangled Banner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fort McHenry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Major countries. Try reading comprehension. When were :..Poland, Luxembourg, Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium considered major countries?

You got owned dude.

And the French were..and are pretty kickass...in terms of a fight. One of the best militaries in history.

By whom? The French are idiots. They over complicate EVERYTHING. The only things they do best are cooking and wine.

We do owe them a debt of gratitude for that little Revolutionary War thingy. They did not do it for us so much as they saw an opportunity to weaken the English.

They totally fucked up the Mediterranean with the invasive seaweed they released. All of their automobiles are crap. Their SST was crap. I could go on and on. No country in the world has had OUR track record for kicking ass. Even in Viet Nam we just stopped fighting. We only lost in that we didn't finish it. We lost a lot of good boys over there and that turned out to be unacceptable. If we had used all of our resources, which would have been an even more incredible waste, we could have easily beat down the N. Vietnamese and all supplies going south.

The French actually lost in Indo China.

 

[Trajan]

snapshot in time dude....

 

[Montesquieu]

An alternate source:

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html


An interesting read. At least their food is one of the best. And Debussy my favorite conposer.

 

[Munin]

This differs from let's say Hitler's Reichswehr, where the Soldiers were solely Germans.

Hitler used soldiers from all nations he occupied, he also didn't fight alone:

For example, operation Barbarossa:

Germany
Romania
Finland
Italy
Hungary
Slovakia
Croatia

And then I haven't mentioned all the foreign SS-troops that fought with them:

Belgian SS troops: http://axis101.bizland.com/FlemishFeldpost.htm
French SS troops: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_Charlemagne_(1st_French)
Dutch SS troops: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23rd_SS_Volunteer_Panzer_Grenadier_Division_Nederland
... (numerous other occupied countries supplied troops to Hitlers army, some of them fougth untill the last days of the war)

Major countries. Try reading comprehension. When were :..Poland, Luxembourg, Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium considered major countries?

Poland once was a major country, so was the Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark. They once had more power than the US (that was only a colony).

But at the time of WWII they were indeed no major countries, but it seems your reading skills are even worse than mine considering that it seems that you haven't red all of my response.

The French are idiots. They over complicate EVERYTHING. The only things they do best are cooking and wine.

They totally fucked up the Mediterranean with the invasive seaweed they released. All of their automobiles are crap. Their SST was crap. I could go on and on. No country in the world has had OUR track record for kicking ass.

You see it too much black and white, we the good guys and they the bad guys. You should learn that not everything is black and white, most things are actually "grey".

The US track record (the US only exists 235 years) is actually very short compared to the French track record, you should learn to accept that your country can not the best at everything. Your patriotism is admirable, but realism can be good too.

 

[woodjack]

Hmm the article makes the French look as if they are noble in purpose. Heh heh. I suspect other motives. Or did you forget Food for Oil scandle. From 96 to 2002 the French were scaming that program and getting oil for 5 to 10 dollars a barrel. One of the huge reasons that the French, Spain, China, Russia, Germany were opposed to the invasion in 03. They made billions off of that program during the time it was implemented along with Kofi Anon, all on the backs of the US and British who upheld the No-fly zone. Yes the French had mirages there as well but played no supportive role, just spying on us for better deals to get cheap oil on the intel they gained.

Now they find that they can control this operation at half the cost using Nato resources as well, while controling this aspect i suspect they will begin to bleed Libya of oil one way or another. It is smart really, all the while saying that they give a damn for the libya people......and people actually will believe this drivel...heh heh saying how caring and noble the French President is....some people really need to read between the lines and look at the current past to see the cycle and then it becomes obvious what they are really up to.