French Are "Resenting" America's Leadership On Tsunami Relief

[j07950]

Would you be willing to admit that the US not only takes care of it's own citizens but by default is now also expected to take care of the poor citizens of the WHOLE world---isolationism is a lot cheaper huh?

Did you read what I wrote:

The official US poverty rate in 2002 was 12.1 percent, up from 11.7 percent in 2001. In 2002, people below the official poverty thresholds numbered 34.6 million, a figure 1.7 million higher than the 32.9 million in poverty in 2001. This from the worlds biggest economy.
According to the latest statistics on poverty in the United States, released in 1996 by the U.S. Census Bureau, 14.3 million children in America are living in abject poverty that is the direct consequence of official U.S. social policies.
For example, overall spending on child well-being is about $230 billion a year in France (France's population = 59,329,691 ), compared with only $146 billion in the United States (US population = 295,203,947).
In fact, most Western European nations spend two or even three times as much as the U.S. on families with children, which explains why so many more American than European children live in poverty.But after receiving tax breaks and all the social benefits, only 5.7 percent of French children and 7.3 percent of British children are still considered poor, while nearly 21 percent of U.S. children still suffer in severe poverty.


So as far as I know the US government is not taking care enough of it's own people...don't accuse our government of doing too much...

 

[Said1]

Your article in interesting while a bit old, but it's true that the state is overspending, just like the US is overspending on it's military and other things.

I know it's old, but it does outline some reforms, and I was hoping someone could clarify the fact that France has recently been penalized for overspending or not. The US has not made agreements with other nation states with regard to military or any other type of spending, that's beside the point.

Your state is in deficit... France hasn't met the EU deficit limite which is bas since all the countires signed to limit it. Hopefully this will be corected but I prefer our state being in deficit and receiving good health care and all the other benefits than people getting awful health cares and seeing poverty rise.

You would prefer to see a state deficit from public spending???? Are you for real??

 

[j07950]

I know it's old, but it does outline some reforms, and I was hoping someone could clarify the fact that France has recently been penalized for overspending or not. The US has not made agreements with other nation states with regard to military or any other type of spending, that's beside the point.



You would prefer to see a state deficit from public spending???? Are you for real??

Of course I'd prefer to see a state deficit from public spending...that way I know the government is doing as much as it can for it's own people. There are things to do to cut that deficit, and that's being done and hopefully will cut the state deficit but at least our state can't be accused of not doing it's best for us.

 

[padisha emperor]

You would prefer to see a state deficit from public spending???? Are you for real??

i think he meant he would prefer a State who spend money for the good of it citizen, like in the healthcare, intsead of a State who spend into military, or not in the healthcare system, and then who have a bad healthcare, and great poverty.

 

[Said1]

Yeah like that doesn't make sense...
I prefer it spends our money on our health than other things. At least we're not paying tax and having to also fully pay for our health care, like in the US.

You would prefer people going to the hospital for the removal of a splinter, over decent city planning and emergency preparedness in order to help prevent thousands of seniors from dying of heat stroke??

 

[j07950]

i think he meant he would prefer a State who spend money for the good of it citizen, like in the healthcare, intsead of a State who spend into military, or not in the healthcare system, and then who have a bad healthcare, and great poverty.

Exactly...

 

[j07950]

You would prefer people going to the hospital for the removal of a splinter, over decent city planning and emergency preparedness in order to help prevent thousands of seniors from dying of heat stroke??

Thats a bad example. Nothing like this had ever happened in France before...no one was prepared for the heat wave and things got out of control and the state took too long to notice what was happening since most senior citizens died alone in their own home without people even knowing for days...
Governments learn from disasters and mistakes, ours has from this one...and imagine if our government didn't spend so much for our health, things might have been even worse.

 

[padisha emperor]

Yes.
the strong heat help to involve the healthcare system.

After that, lot of things were did by the government, to stop a such thing again.

 

[no1tovote4]

Your article in interesting while a bit old, but it's true that the state is overspending, just like the US is overspending on it's military and other things. Your state is in deficit... France hasn't met the EU deficit limite which is bas since all the countires signed to limit it. Hopefully this will be corected but I prefer our state being in deficit and receiving good health care and all the other benefits than people getting awful health cares and seeing poverty rise.

The problem is that in order to be a "couterbalance to the US" as Jaques Chirac calls it they need to be in the EU or they simply will not have the power necessary. The EU has given them a deadline and they are likely to cut benefits to insure they meet their obligations. Therefore your benefits will likely be cut in areas and be more like the UK where they pick and choose who receives them. I would rather be able to get care regardless, much like in the US. Nobody can be turned away from the hospital and care is at a high level.

 

[Said1]

Thats a bad example. Nothing like this had ever happened in France before...no one was prepared for the heat wave and things got out of control and the state took too long to notice what was happening since most senior citizens died alone in their own home without people even knowing for days...

That's not a bad example. Doesn't France have programs that are designed to help seniors needing limited assistance with things like bathing, getting groceries etc. Worthy social programs for the elderly help in preventing horrible things like that from happening in emergencies. During the ice storm in Canada, the military and local police forces had to drag the elderly out of their homes and into shelters, but they did it, and very few died.

Governments learn from disasters and mistakes, ours has from this one...and imagine if our government didn't spend so much for our health, things might have been even worse.

How much worse could it get? The old people stopped dying when the weather returned to normal.

 

[Said1]

Yes.
the strong heat help to involve the healthcare system.

After that, lot of things were did by the government, to stop a such thing again.

Such as?

 

[j07950]

The problem is that in order to be a "couterbalance to the US" as Jaques Chirac calls it they need to be in the EU or they simply will not have the power necessary. The EU has given them a deadline and they are likely to cut benefits to insure they meet their obligations. Therefore your benefits will likely be cut in areas and be more like the UK where they pick and choose who receives them. I would rather be able to get care regardless, much like in the US. Nobody can be turned away from the hospital and care is at a high level.

I'm not talking about the quality of the care provided in the US, it probably is of excellent quality to those who can afford it and of lesser quality to those who can't. IN France it's always been a tradition to get good health care for everyone. What you are saying is true, the state is going to have to do cutbacks in order to meet the deficit level authorized but will do reforms and has, in the health care system which isn't really popular here but is still way above average and better than in the UK by far, I live there so I'm aware of it. The government is likely to make cutbacks elsewhere as well in order to not take away too much of the benefits from the French health care system. If people start dying because they don't get health treatments whose going to be paying th taxes...lol
A bit of sarcasm, hope you get my point though...
PS: don't make this another France angainst US power talk, that's been discussed a lot recently...

 

[CSM]

I'm not talking about the quality of the care provided in the US, it probably is of excellent quality to those who can afford it and of lesser quality to those who can't.

A bit of a stretch here...as the facilities and doctors are the same...we dont have different doctors or hospitals for "poor folk". That is not to say that some doctors and hospitals are not better than others, though. If it is a lousy hospital or doctor, everyone gets lousy care and vice versa.

 

[j07950]

Patrice Dallem, French Red Cross, Response to heat waves in France.
Fragile or sick senior citizens were the main victims of the heat wave in August 2003.
Procedures and warning systems (four levels of alert) are now in place, that were painfully
lacking in 2003, resulting even in a political scandal. When the heat wave occurred, the
French Red Cross was actually ahead of the governmental institutions in dealing with the
consequences. Gave active assistant to hospitals, senior citizens institutions and made home
visits, and provided young volunteers, many who found deceased people in their home, with
psychological support.
The FRC is now, more than last year, involved in the government plans which goes into alert
level 1 by 1 June-30 October, and then on different alert levels as the occasion rises), and in
addition has its own heat wave action plan. The plan specifies the support given to public
authorities and the assistance given to vulnerable people (senior citizens as well as homeless
people), inside and outside Red Cross Centres. The French Red Cross supports their call
centre staff with psychological training, reinforces hospital units, and distributes water, gives
recommendation to old people to register with authorities so that they are eligible for help,
mobilized units to assist the homeless, set up air conditioned rooms for the homeless within
their communities, reinforces staff in retirement homes, and pays home visits.

 

[Said1]

Patrice Dallem, French Red Cross, Response to heat waves in France.
Fragile or sick senior citizens were the main victims of the heat wave in August 2003.
Procedures and warning systems (four levels of alert) are now in place, that were painfully
lacking in 2003, resulting even in a political scandal. When the heat wave occurred, the
French Red Cross was actually ahead of the governmental institutions in dealing with the
consequences. Gave active assistant to hospitals, senior citizens institutions and made home
visits, and provided young volunteers, many who found deceased people in their home, with
psychological support.
The FRC is now, more than last year, involved in the government plans which goes into alert
level 1 by 1 June-30 October, and then on different alert levels as the occasion rises), and in
addition has its own heat wave action plan. The plan specifies the support given to public
authorities and the assistance given to vulnerable people (senior citizens as well as homeless
people), inside and outside Red Cross Centres. The French Red Cross supports their call
centre staff with psychological training, reinforces hospital units, and distributes water, gives
recommendation to old people to register with authorities so that they are eligible for help,
mobilized units to assist the homeless, set up air conditioned rooms for the homeless within
their communities, reinforces staff in retirement homes, and pays home visits.

No offense, but most of the above are fairly basic services that should have been in place long before the heat wave considering the amount of money France does spend on social services.

 

[no1tovote4]

I'm not talking about the quality of the care provided in the US, it probably is of excellent quality to those who can afford it and of lesser quality to those who can't. IN France it's always been a tradition to get good health care for everyone. What you are saying is true, the state is going to have to do cutbacks in order to meet the deficit level authorized but will do reforms and has, in the health care system which isn't really popular here but is still way above average and better than in the UK by far, I live there so I'm aware of it. The government is likely to make cutbacks elsewhere as well in order to not take away too much of the benefits from the French health care system. If people start dying because they don't get health treatments whose going to be paying th taxes...lol
A bit of sarcasm, hope you get my point though...
PS: don't make this another France angainst US power talk, that's been discussed a lot recently...

You clearly didn't read my whole post. Nobody can legally be turned away from a hospital or clinic regardless of their indigent status it is against the law.

Therefore they receive a very high level of care and we pay for it at the State level. While we could beef up that program a bit, admittedly, they are not at a subsistence level of care or even a poor level of healthcare because they are poor. The studies never seem to actually inform people of how healthcare works here they simply put forward an opinion about it and it is usually an incorrect one.

 

[j07950]

A bit of a stretch here...as the facilities and doctors are the same...we dont have different doctors or hospitals for "poor folk". That is not to say that some doctors and hospitals are not better than others, though. If it is a lousy hospital or doctor, everyone gets lousy care and vice versa.

Get what you are saying...It's true but 42.6 million people in the US without health insurance is a lot...What is it...like 1/6 of population? Thats a lot of people who can get sick and not get treatments because they don't have health insurance and no money.
http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S. HCweb.pdf

 

[no1tovote4]

Get what you are saying...It's true but 42.6 million people in the US without health insurance is a lot...What is it...like 1/6 of population? Thats a lot of people who can get sick and not get treatments because they don't have health insurance and no money.
http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S. HCweb.pdf

And for the third and final time, they get healthcare and treatment. It would be illegal for any hospital or care facility to turn them away because of an indigent status. (BTW - not all of them are indigent and many are the truly wealthy who self-insure themselves). If they are indigent they get all the same care I would get and it is paid for by the states.

 

[j07950]

No offense, but most of the above are fairly basic services that should have been in place long before the heat wave considering the amount of money France does spend on social services.

But like I said nothing like this had ever happened before and could not have been thought of happening. You guys in the US are used to harsh summers...It like rarely goes as high as 100°F in France...it's very rare especially in Paris.

 

[j07950]

And for the third and final time, they get healthcare and treatment. It would be illegal for any hospital or care facility to turn them away because of an indigent status. (BTW - not all of them are indigent and many are the truly wealthy who self-insure themselves). If they are indigent they get all the same care I would get and it is paid for by the states.

And how many years do they spend paying it back???