Freedom Of Religion?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by GotZoom, May 27, 2005.

  1. GotZoom
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    GotZoom Senior Member

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    I am a proud Christian and I think Wiccan is for the birds, but I still don't like judges doing this.

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    Wiccans Ordered to Not Expose Son to Beliefs
    Friday, May 27, 2005

    INDIANAPOLIS — A Wiccan activist and his ex-wife are challenging a court's order that they must protect their 9-year-old son from what it calls their "non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals."

    The Indiana Civil Liberties Union has appealed the stipulation written into the couple's divorce order, saying it is unconstitutionally vague because it does not define mainstream religion.

    Thomas Jones, a Wiccan activist who has coordinated Pagan Pride Day in Indianapolis for six years, said he and his ex-wife, Tammy Bristol, were stunned by the order. Neither parent has taken their son to any Wiccan rituals since it was issued, he said.

    "We both had an instant resolve to challenge it. We could not accept it," Jones said Thursday. "I'm afraid I'll lose my son if I let him around when I practice my religion."

    A court commissioner wrote the unusual order after a routine report by the court's Domestic Relations Counseling Bureau noted that both Jones and his ex-wife are pagans who send their son, Archer, to a Catholic elementary school.

    In the order, the parents were "directed to take such steps as are needed to shelter Archer from involvement and observation of these non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals." The judge let the wording stand.

    The order has been criticized by various religious and advocacy groups.

    Barry Lynn, executive director of the Washington, D.C.-based Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said judges cannot substitute their religious judgment for that of parents in regard to the upbringing of children.

    "This is an absurd result, because in the eyes of the law being a pagan should be no different from being a Presbyterian," he said.

    Wiccans contend their religion is becoming more mainstream. The parents' appeal says there were about 1 million pagans worldwide in 2002, more than the numbers who practice Sikhism, Taoism and other established religions in the United States.

    Wiccans consider themselves witches, pagans or neo-pagans, and say their religion is based on respect for the earth, nature and the cycle of the seasons.

    "There continues to be misunderstanding and prejudice and discrimination, not only against Wicca but against any religion that is not centered on monotheism," said the Rev. Elena Fox, high priestess and senior minister of Circle Sanctuary, a Wiccan church and pagan resource center near Madison, Wis.

    The head of a conservative Christian group also sided with the Wiccans.

    "The parents have the right to raise their child in that faith, just as I have the right to raise my child in the Christian faith," said Micah Clark, executive director of the American Family Association of Indiana.
     
  2. no1tovote4
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    no1tovote4 VIP Member

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    WTF? :wtf:

    Now that is truly a violation of the Freedom of Religion clause. What could this idiot have been thinking. There should be a vote to recall the idiot from the bench.
     
  3. Gem
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    Gem BANNED

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    Yep, sorry, these parents have every right to bring their child up in whatever religion they choose, just as long as they are not physically or mentally harming the child.

    Wiccan is no more psychologically traumatizing as any other relgion, except for the moment when their son has to tell his girlfriends father that he is a warlock. :)

    That being said, Wicca is one of the greatest hoaxes of our age. Based ever so loosely on the Druids...its pretty much just a made up new-age club invented in the early 1960's. But hey, some people like Kwanzaa too...so to each his own, Wicca is a nationally recognized religion, and therefore deserves all of the rights and protections our nation provides. This judge should have looked at this family as if they were ardent Catholics...would he have made the same ruling then?
     
  4. GotZoom
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    GotZoom Senior Member

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    Depending on the girl, the son might get luckier quicker than if daddy wasn't a warlock!

    This judge is out of his mind.

    I wonder if he goes to that church will the "flushing" sign out front?
     
  5. no1tovote4
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    no1tovote4 VIP Member

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    I got into a "discussion" with a Wiccan one time about the whole discrepancy between what Druids must have believed and what Wiccans do as there were no Druids for long Centuries before 1965. He insisted that they were in hiding all that time and the ritual has been unbroken....

    I had a hard time holding back my laughter until I was out of his presence.

    I see nothing wrong believing a religion that is based in the New. Christianity and Buddhism were at one time new as well. I just think you should do it with open eyes, speak of new ritual and respect for what you believe. Do not insist beyond all emprical evidence that it is the oldest religion currently practiced.
     
  6. SmarterThanYou
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    anybody going to bitch about the ACLU over this one?
     
  7. no1tovote4
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    If this is what they specifically did every time, protecting the actual religious freedom of other's, then nobody would have a problem. But when they say, sue over a cross in a City seal and get it removed but leave the pagan symbolism in the same seal, it becomes clear that they have a specific agenda against one religion in particular.

    I think it is specifically and purposefully undervaluing the evidence we have seen with our own eyes when you wonder why nobody is complaining about them in this thread. They even occassionally take up a Christian case in order to obfuscate and obscure their direct agenda, but that doesn't mean that they are a group for the rights of Christians.

    I even wonder if the I*CLU would have even noticed if they were ordered not to teach Christian values to the child because they might meet gays later in life....
     
  8. SmarterThanYou
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    SmarterThanYou Guest

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    agreed.
     
  9. archangel
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    they are hypocrits and should keep their nose out of all religions....in case you have not noticed the ACLU(Anti Christ Legions Unleashed) only bash Christian and Jewish beliefs...they blow the trumpet and charge when another religion is on the attack of mainstream Christianity..ie:Islam and it's unrelenting attack on Christians and Jews...hummm! :fu2:
     
  10. MyName
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    First off, in the Wiccan Religion the term warlock is a massively offensive title since it's defined as ' one who is an oath-breaker'.

    The 'father' of Wicca, Gerald Gardner was born in the late 1800's and developed the version of wicca that is in practice today sometime around the 1930's. If I remember correctly it was a combination of 'the old ways' and Druidism. I dont remember the exacts, but a quick google search can satistfy anyone who screams :link: lol (No, Im not Wiccan; I just had to study it along with a jillion others while getting my degree).

    I dont subscribe to any one religion. I used to, until I had to study them all and what I found through my studies left a bad taste in my mouth. Now I simply prefer to love God and try to be the best me that I can possibly be. I fail....like any other person. Then I simply apologize, ask forgiveness and try again.
     

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