Freedom from ME oil.

Discussion in 'Energy' started by Cold Fusion38, Aug 15, 2009.

  1. Cold Fusion38
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    Cold Fusion38 SUPER GENIUS

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    I would like to have an honest, fair, and POLITE debate about energy policy including plug in electric cars and other alt energy cars. I would also like to discuss new ways of producing energy and the idea of new nuclear power plants to supply our energy until such a time as we can get ALL our power from solar sources.



    ONCE AGAIN I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THIS THREAD FRIENDLY!
     
  2. xsited1
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    That would be nice, but the liberals (in name only, of course) keep us dependent on foreign oil. Here are a few examples:

    1. Coal - too dirty
    2. Nuclear - too dangerous
    3. Hydroelectric - harms environment
    4. Solar - Environmentalists Against the Mojave Desert Solar Plant
    5. Wind - Ted out to blow down windmills
     
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  3. Midnight Marauder
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    Lets just get the fuck off enemy oil by NOT buying it anymore! Let's do that NOW. The free marketplace will come up with viable, economic alternatives real fast, and we'll bankrupt our enemies instead of financing them.

    We need "country of origin" labels on the gas pumps, like we have for food, for starters. Let us vote with our dollars!

    But more broadly, without government subsidies most alternatives aren't viable, and most ALL of them are actually worse for the environment than evil fossil fuels!

    NO ONE wants a polluted planet. That fallacy is an ad-hom card the EnviroNazis love to play. If you're against AGW, you're a "denier" and like pollution. You don't care about the planet. All that rot. It's just typical attempts to quash debate. To squelch observations and even data. NONE of that is part of science, or the quest for knowledge.

    The truth is, we do not know nor can we ever know all the effects of pollution. The ecosystem is so complex, our understanding of it is still in its infancy.

    Currently the focus of the AGW theories is on CO2 emissions. Well, that's certainly a convenient devil, it's at least what, 18th on the list of greenhouse gases? Far behind the thousands of times more potent and dangerous NF3? But CO2 IS the one which is emitted by combustion of fossil fuels -- that evil oil and gas stuff.

    Well, if the science is settled and there's no room for debate, let's get serious about it! Let's immediately ban ALL manufacture and use of CO2 for entertainment purposes -- fake "smoke" at rock concerts, sporting events, wrestling events, Hollywood special effects... Soda pop carbonation, paint ball guns, any and all toys... also for uses where it's been superseded, such as water treatment, fire fighting.... If it's REALLY so bad these are the cheapest, easiest and fastest ways to stop millions of tons of it from going into the atmosphere every year.

    Also while we're at it, let's get that NF3 stopped by redesigning manufacturing processes so they don't produce and emit this highly dangerous for the environment gas. NF3 -- nitrogen trifluoride -- is a compound used in manufacture of flat panel televisions, computer displays, microcircuits, solar panels and is 17,000 times more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. Also stays in the atmosphere 800 times longer than CO2, yet you never hear anything about it, because it's not a product of fossil fuels combustion.

    THESE are things they would do, and be calling for, if they really truly themselves believed in their own cause. But they don't, the cause is simply an excuse to gain more control over people's lives and line the pockets of special interests such as GE.

    The "science was settled" that the Jews were inferior and had to go, too. What a convenient devil they were to Nazi Germany! Those who fail to learn the hard lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

    By far the most towering idiocy of environmentalism is the harm to the environment most all "alternatives" do:

    Lighting's dirty little secret: The swirly florescent bulbs that will by law be required, as incandescent bulbs are banned? Mercury. Where's it all gonna go, from the billions of these discarded? Into the groundwater! Love it!

    Wind power's dirty little secret: It takes 4 barrels of oil per year, per wind turbine, for the gearbox. And another five barrels for the transformer below each turbine. And these turbines leak and sling this oil. Great for the groundwater!

    Multiply those figures times a million, two million wind turbines planned -- and you see why oil magnates like Pickens are pushing this. They stand to sell millions of barrels of oil!

    Dirty little secret of solar: The production of solar panels involves nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) emissions be released. NF3 is about 17,000 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. The concentration of it in the atmosphere has increased 20 fold during the last two decades by its use in manufacturing processes. The level is increasing 11 percent per year.

    The weaker CO2 stays in the atmosphere up to 100 years. NF3 stays in the atmosphere for 700 years or more.

    Dirty little secret of Hydrogen: Water Vapor is the product of combustion. Sounds great, right? But -- Water vapor is far and away the #1 greenhouse gas. This according to the IPCC and every other scientist on both sides of the issue. It's the one thing they do ALL agree on. Hmmm...

    Dirty little secrets of Ethanol: Yeah, it's "cleaner" if you believe CO2 is really really bad, because it does produce less when combusted. But it also produces the definite pollutant and definite poison to all living things -- CO (Carbon Monoxide) 100 times more than gasoline! Also, it takes 1,200 gallons of water to make a gallon of this crap!

    Cleaner little secret of gasoline powered internal combustion: Today's engines put out 95% fewer emissions than their 1970 counterparts!

    It's what they DON'T tell us that really winds up hurting the environment in the long haul.
     
  4. Cold Fusion38
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    Well it's not like the "conservatives" don't want us to continue using oil until the last drop comes out of the ground. Cheney's energy meeting ring a bell?
     
  5. Cold Fusion38
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    I think the only way we will get more nuclear power plants is for the Fed to build them and then lease them to power cos.
     
  6. Midnight Marauder
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    If Cheney and Boooooosh really wanted to line the pockets of their "rich oil buddies" they would have BANNED all enemy oil imports when they had the chance, SKYROCKETING the price for domestic oil, and oil in general worldwide. And greatly spurring domestic DRILLING in the process. They would have cleaned up, making Bernie Madoff look like a piggy bank rifler!

    It's when petty partisan hackery -- which is basically regurgitation without cogitation -- such as yours gets into conversations, that they can become unfriendly very fast.
     
  7. xsited1
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    Cheney? He's not in power. The Democrats have controlled Congress since 2007. It's their game now.
     
  8. Midnight Marauder
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    Baloney.

    Get the government OUT of that business completely, except as a regulatory role. REMOVE the massive obstacles, the punitive taxation and toweringly costly requirements, which are entrenched. It's interesting, Obama and Dems want to embrace every "European Model" there is, except Nuclear energy policy! The French for example, have a robust Nuclear plant system. Why not emulate that?
     
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  9. Cold Fusion38
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    Cold Fusion38 SUPER GENIUS

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    Don't think they could just BAN foreign oil......At least not legally.


    I would mostly like to yalk the possibility of plug in electric cars and nuclear power plants to "fuel" them. What say you with regards to these two points?
     
  10. Cold Fusion38
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    Cold Fusion38 SUPER GENIUS

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    The problem is Mid that I don't think a private co could get the kind of money they need to build one. That and the fact that the FED could get past most of the red tape if they were serious about nuclear power.

    Why would you see it as a bad thing if the FED builds them and then leases them to power cos?
     

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