Free Will?

-Cp

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Sep 23, 2004
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There is so much confusion on the subject that one hardly knows where to begin to attempt to help another find his way out of the maze of presuppositions (that have no basis in biblical truth) and downright sloppy thinking. The old testament prophets gave a preview of this principle, saying, to quote just one representatively, "I will put my Spirit within them and cause them to walk in my statutes" (Ezek. 36:27). And the new testament confirms this with such statements as, "Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1:11).

The idea that God has given men a will, that by some definition and in some sense, is to be understood as autonomous and independent of the will of God is a philosophical notion that has no support in scripture. There are many shades of this idea, but regardless of the various theological systems that hold versions of the idea of human "free will," you'll find one common thread. They all agree that there is a point at which God, having done all that He chooses to do to influence one to a right decision, He stops short of actually causing him to act as He desires.

This amounts to God leaving a dimension of sovereignty up to man; a place within man, where he, the man, having felt the influence of God and the influence of evil, in all practical terms, functionally makes the good or evil actually happen by his choice. Every version of that scenario agrees that man is the final decider as to whether he will do or not do the will of God. It, in effect says, "God only has the ability to bring his will to pass in a life, if that person allows Him to." Can you see how that really makes man the sovereign one, not God.

The truth is that the only One in the universe who has true free will is God Himself. As is true of every good thing, free will is something found in God's very nature and we can only experience freedom of will by God causing us to participate in His freedom by causing us to become "partakers of the divine nature" (II Pet. 1:4); and that is His choice not ours.
That is, He causes us to participate in the divine ability to desire something, then foreordain it, predestine it, and make it come to pass.
That's freedom; to be without constraint, without hindrance, without anything that can, in any degree, stop or hinder one's desire. The scripture is quite clear that God will bring to pass His desire for all men and for the entire cosmos.

Freedom of will was the primal possession of God alone and could be only enjoyed by participation in the nature of God. As is true of all good things that God gives, it is a gift of grace which functions in communion with God, a communion that God FREELY grants by grace, not a communion that man brings about by his decision. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32). "If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed" (John 8:36). "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has set you free" (Gal. 5:1). What kind of freedom is that, the freedom to sin? No, the freedom to live righteously. Should we stand fast in the liberty that capacitates us to sin, or stand fast in the liberty that has freed us from the law of sin and death?

Freedom was never given to provide an option to sin; it is given to deliver men from sin. Bondage, in the form of man's innocence being subjected to an overpowering, adversarial mentality (the serpent), was introduced by God, transitionally, into His penultimate plan to bring about sin and death. Sin and death are a necessary transitional element in the purpose of God to show the glory of His grace.

Bondage results in sin, death and turmoil and perpetuates the same. Freedom results in righteousness, life and peace and perpetuates the same. Those who refuse to accept the whole revelation of scripture in regard to sin and death, never really deal honestly with the passages that teach that it was God who subjected all creation to futility, not of its own will (the creature's will) (Rom. 8:19-20), that He consigned all to disobedience that He might have mercy upon all (Rom. 11:32), and that God creates good and evil and the Waster to destroy (Isa. 45:7; 54:16).

So, to repeat, what are we to be judged for if we do not have a "free will"
in the sense of having the capacity to hinder and/or thwart the will of God?
We are judged, first to expose and demonstrate, that left to ourselves, we succumb to deception and second, to correct that situation by the light of God inherent in His judgment. So many just can't get it through their heads that God's judgments are not vindictive retaliation for our sins, but unavoidable, correctional confrontation by "Him, with whom we have to do"
(Isa. 26:9; Heb. 4:13).
His judgments always amount to God saying, "My will must be done, and left to yourself, you haven't done it and you won't do it, so I'm stepping in and making it happen by putting my Spirit in you and making you like Me." That's the new covenant, pure and simple.
 
I know we've talked about this topic before. Here are my thoughts.

-Cp said:
There is so much confusion on the subject that one hardly knows where to begin to attempt to help another find his way out of the maze of presuppositions (that have no basis in biblical truth) and downright sloppy thinking. The old testament prophets gave a preview of this principle, saying, to quote just one representatively, "I will put my Spirit within them and cause them to walk in my statutes" (Ezek. 36:27). And the new testament confirms this with such statements as, "Who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1:11).

The idea that God has given men a will, that by some definition and in some sense, is to be understood as autonomous and independent of the will of God is a philosophical notion that has no support in scripture. There are many shades of this idea, but regardless of the various theological systems that hold versions of the idea of human "free will," you'll find one common thread. They all agree that there is a point at which God, having done all that He chooses to do to influence one to a right decision, He stops short of actually causing him to act as He desires.

This amounts to God leaving a dimension of sovereignty up to man; a place within man, where he, the man, having felt the influence of God and the influence of evil, in all practical terms, functionally makes the good or evil actually happen by his choice. Every version of that scenario agrees that man is the final decider as to whether he will do or not do the will of God. It, in effect says, "God only has the ability to bring his will to pass in a life, if that person allows Him to." Can you see how that really makes man the sovereign one, not God.

Here is where I will disagree with you (not actually you, but the author). It's not that free-will advocates believe that God is unable to force a person to act according to His will; it's that God chooses not to act in such a manner. See Ezekiel 18:30-32 (NASB):

"Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!"

We can see that the will of God is that mankind does not sin, and that we will be held accountable for the choices we make. However, what is the last sentence? Repent, and live! God puts the decision in our hands, making us accountable for our actions.

The truth is that the only One in the universe who has true free will is God Himself. As is true of every good thing, free will is something found in God's very nature and we can only experience freedom of will by God causing us to participate in His freedom by causing us to become "partakers of the divine nature" (II Pet. 1:4); and that is His choice not ours.
That is, He causes us to participate in the divine ability to desire something, then foreordain it, predestine it, and make it come to pass.
That's freedom; to be without constraint, without hindrance, without anything that can, in any degree, stop or hinder one's desire. The scripture is quite clear that God will bring to pass His desire for all men and for the entire cosmos.

I will agree that God has free will; it's God who made the choice to create the universe. And while I agree that there is freedom in Christ (see Galatians 3-5), that freedom means nothing if it is forced upon us. Forcing someone to choose freely is a logical impossibility, akin to God creating a stone so big He can’t lift it.

Freedom of will was the primal possession of God alone and could be only enjoyed by participation in the nature of God. As is true of all good things that God gives, it is a gift of grace which functions in communion with God, a communion that God FREELY grants by grace, not a communion that man brings about by his decision. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32). "If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed" (John 8:36). "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has set you free" (Gal. 5:1). What kind of freedom is that, the freedom to sin? No, the freedom to live righteously. Should we stand fast in the liberty that capacitates us to sin, or stand fast in the liberty that has freed us from the law of sin and death?

Freedom was never given to provide an option to sin; it is given to deliver men from sin. Bondage, in the form of man's innocence being subjected to an overpowering, adversarial mentality (the serpent), was introduced by God, transitionally, into His penultimate plan to bring about sin and death. Sin and death are a necessary transitional element in the purpose of God to show the glory of His grace.

That sounds like LDS doctrine to me. Maybe you should research your sources a bit closer. If sin and death were part of God’s plan, then mankind could complain that it was God’s will (or God’s plan) that caused them to sin; therefore, God would have no right to judge sin.

Bondage results in sin, death and turmoil and perpetuates the same. Freedom results in righteousness, life and peace and perpetuates the same. Those who refuse to accept the whole revelation of scripture in regard to sin and death, never really deal honestly with the passages that teach that it was God who subjected all creation to futility, not of its own will (the creature's will) (Rom. 8:19-20), that He consigned all to disobedience that He might have mercy upon all (Rom. 11:32), and that God creates good and evil and the Waster to destroy (Isa. 45:7; 54:16).

So, to repeat, what are we to be judged for if we do not have a "free will"
in the sense of having the capacity to hinder and/or thwart the will of God?
We are judged, first to expose and demonstrate, that left to ourselves, we succumb to deception and second, to correct that situation by the light of God inherent in His judgment. So many just can't get it through their heads that God's judgments are not vindictive retaliation for our sins, but unavoidable, correctional confrontation by "Him, with whom we have to do"
(Isa. 26:9; Heb. 4:13).
His judgments always amount to God saying, "My will must be done, and left to yourself, you haven't done it and you won't do it, so I'm stepping in and making it happen by putting my Spirit in you and making you like Me." That's the new covenant, pure and simple.

So much truth intermingled with so many wrong conclusions.

Re: the Judgment, 2 Cor. 5:10:”For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
Heb. 10:26-27: “For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. “

Regarding God “stepping in and making it happen,” Rev. 3:10: “'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.” The onus is on us to accept the gift of God through Jesus Christ.
 
gop_jeff said:
I know we've talked about this topic before. Here are my thoughts.



Here is where I will disagree with you (not actually you, but the author). It's not that free-will advocates believe that God is unable to force a person to act according to His will; it's that God chooses not to act in such a manner. See Ezekiel 18:30-32 (NASB):

"Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!"

We can see that the will of God is that mankind does not sin, and that we will be held accountable for the choices we make. However, what is the last sentence? Repent, and live! God puts the decision in our hands, making us accountable for our actions.



I will agree that God has free will; it's God who made the choice to create the universe. And while I agree that there is freedom in Christ (see Galatians 3-5), that freedom means nothing if it is forced upon us. Forcing someone to choose freely is a logical impossibility, akin to God creating a stone so big He can’t lift it.



That sounds like LDS doctrine to me. Maybe you should research your sources a bit closer. If sin and death were part of God’s plan, then mankind could complain that it was God’s will (or God’s plan) that caused them to sin; therefore, God would have no right to judge sin.



So much truth intermingled with so many wrong conclusions.

Re: the Judgment, 2 Cor. 5:10:”For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
Heb. 10:26-27: “For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. “

Regarding God “stepping in and making it happen,” Rev. 3:10: “'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.” The onus is on us to accept the gift of God through Jesus Christ.

And when we do that, we study His word, and see how we "should" live.

It still comes down to our choice what we do each day.
 
You guys seem to be under the assumption that mankind can somehow find God on his own accord... nothing could be further from the truth...

"Unless the Spirit Convicts a man, he cannot be Born Again...."

That clearly tells us that the onus is NOT on us, but it's on the Spirit...

We also know that the Spirit won't waste his time convicting someone who won't respond...


"... For who resists his will?"

Romans 9:19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "[h] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
 
-Cp said:
You guys seem to be under the assumption that mankind can somehow find God on his own accord... nothing could be further from the truth...

"Unless the Spirit Convicts a man, he cannot be Born Again...."

That clearly tells us that the onus is NOT on us, but it's on the Spirit...

We also know that the Spirit won't waste his time convicting someone who won't respond...


"... For who resists his will?"

Romans 9:19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "[h] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

I Googled this..couldn't find it.

Reference?
 
-Cp said:
Umm.. the Bible? :)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 9&version=31

You should read that entire Chapter...

I think he meant this specifically: "Unless the Spirit Convicts a man, he cannot be Born Again...." Is that supposed to be from John 3:5? If it is, the quote is "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

And I don't think anyone will argue that man can save himself - salvation is a gift, granted by God's grace, not by our effort. But one cannot receive a gift that one does not accept. Therefore, man must accept the gift, through faith.
 
gop_jeff said:
I think he meant this specifically: "Unless the Spirit Convicts a man, he cannot be Born Again...." Is that supposed to be from John 3:5? If it is, the quote is "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

And I don't think anyone will argue that man can save himself - salvation is a gift, granted by God's grace, not by our effort. But one cannot receive a gift that one does not accept. Therefore, man must accept the gift, through faith.

Correct. And if that is the verse, it doesn't mean what you think it does. Unless one is born of water (baptism) and Spirit (acceptance).....

That does not relate in any way to the Spirit convicting a man, he cannot be Born Again.
 
Perhaps you refer to these passages from John?

3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

"Paraphrased, verse 3:5 means that unless one obeys the gospel of Jesus Christ by believing in him, repenting of sin, confessing his name, and being baptized into Jesus Christ (no genuine baptism is possible without the three antecedents mentioned here), and as a consequence of such obedience, receives the Holy Spirit, he can never enter God's kingdom, i.e., he cannot be saved."
 
Abbey Normal said:
Perhaps you refer to these passages from John?

3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

"Paraphrased, verse 3:5 means that unless one obeys the gospel of Jesus Christ by believing in him, repenting of sin, confessing his name, and being baptized into Jesus Christ (no genuine baptism is possible without the three antecedents mentioned here), and as a consequence of such obedience, receives the Holy Spirit, he can never enter God's kingdom, i.e., he cannot be saved."


Yeah...what she said.
 
gop_jeff said:
I know we've talked about this topic before. Here are my thoughts.

Here is where I will disagree with you (not actually you, but the author). It's not that free-will advocates believe that God is unable to force a person to act according to His will; it's that God chooses not to act in such a manner. See Ezekiel 18:30-32 (NASB):

"Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!"

We can see that the will of God is that mankind does not sin, and that we will be held accountable for the choices we make. However, what is the last sentence? Repent, and live! God puts the decision in our hands, making us accountable for our actions.

I will agree that God has free will; it's God who made the choice to create the universe. And while I agree that there is freedom in Christ (see Galatians 3-5), that freedom means nothing if it is forced upon us. Forcing someone to choose freely is a logical impossibility, akin to God creating a stone so big He can’t lift it.



That sounds like LDS doctrine to me. Maybe you should research your sources a bit closer. If sin and death were part of God’s plan, then mankind could complain that it was God’s will (or God’s plan) that caused them to sin; therefore, God would have no right to judge sin.

So much truth intermingled with so many wrong conclusions.

Re: the Judgment, 2 Cor. 5:10:”For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”
Heb. 10:26-27: “For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. “

Regarding God “stepping in and making it happen,” Rev. 3:10: “'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.” The onus is on us to accept the gift of God through Jesus Christ.


God does what he wants, when He wants, look at Saul who became Paul. God changed him, Paul didn't have much of a choice. Judas was chosen and the list goes on.

God's Sovereign Purpose
God's Sovereign Purpose, mankind's choice is limited to God's Choice! **

He placed a scoop of Clay upon another until a form lay lifeless on the ground. All of the garden inhabitants paused to witness the event. Cherubims hovered, Seraphims stretched, Eagles paused on rocky cliffs to watch.

"You will love me, nature" God said. "I made you that way, you will love Me universe, for you were designed to do so, you will reflect My glory, heavens, for that is how you were created. Ps. 19:1. But this one will be like Me....
this one will be able to choose, through my choice.**

All were silent the Creator reached into himself and removed something unseen, a seed, "it is called 'Man,' Seed of the woman.(Gen. 3:15, Holy Spirit guarded seed until Messiah). Creation stood still in silence and gazed upon the lifeless form.

And the angel spoke, "But what if... "what if he chooses** not to love?" the Creator finished His masterpiece!

"Come I will show you." Unbound by time, God and the angel walked into the realm of tomorrow. "There, see the fruit of the seed of man, both sweet and bitter."

The angel gasped at what he saw, spontaneous love, voluntary devotion, chosen tenderness, never had he seen anything like these. He felt the love of the Adams. He heard the joy of the Eve and her daughter, he saw the food and the burdens shared, he absorbed the kindness and marveled at the warmth.

"Heavens has never seen such beauty, my Lord truly, this is your greatest creation."

"Ah, but you've only seen the sweet, now witness the bitter."
A stench enveloped the pair. the angel turned in horror and proclaimed:
"What is this?" the Creator spoke only one word. "Selfishness."
The angel stood speechless as they passed through the centuries of repugnance, never had he seen such filth, rotten hearts, ruptured promises, forgotten loyalties, children of creation wandering blindly in lonely labyrinths.

"This is the result of choice?" the angel asked. "Yes, But, The creature
(creation) was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who has subjected the same in Hope." Rom. 8: 20.

"Will they forget you?"
"YES"
"Will they never come back?"
"Some will, most won't, for aions, but ultimately all will." "I turn man to
destruction: and say, Return you children of men." Psalm 90: 3. "None can resist my will." Rom. 9: 15-22.

"What will it take to make them listen?"
The Creator walked on in time, further and further into the future, until he stood by a tree, a tree that would be fashioned one day into a cradle, even then He could smell the hay that would surround Him.

With another step into the future, He paused before another tree, it stood alone, a stubborn ruler on a bald hill, the trunk was thick and strong. Soon it would be trimmed, soon it would be mounted on the stony brow of another hill, and soon He would be hung on it. He felt the wood run against a back He did not wear yet.

"Will you go there?" the angel asked.
"I Will"
"Is there no other way?"
"There is not."
"Wouldn't it be easier to not plant the seed? Wouldn't it be easier to not subject the man to a choice?"**

"It would" the Creator spoke slowly. "But to remove the choice** is to remove the love." He looked around the hill and fore saw a scene, three figures hung on a cross, arms spread, heads fallen forward, they moaned with the wind.
John 19: 18.

Men clad in soldier's garb sat on the ground near to the trio, they played games in the dirt and laughed. Men clad in religion stood off to one side, they smiled, arrogantly, cocky, they had protected God, they thought by killing this false one. Women clad in sorrow huddles at the foot of the hill.
Speechless, faces streaked with tears, one put her arms around the other and tried to lead her away but she wouldn't leave.

"I will stay, she said softly... I will stay."
All heaven stood to awe, all nature rose to rescue, all eternity poised in agony, but the Creator gave no command.

"It must be done....." He said, and withdrew.
But as he stepped in time, He heard the cry that He would someday scream.
"MY GOD, MY GOD WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"

He wrenched at tomorrow's agony. the angel spoke again "it would be less painful"

The Creator interrupted softly. "But man wouldn't love." They stepped into the garden again, the Maker looked earnestly at the clay creation, a monsoon of love swelled up within Him. He had died for creation before He had made it.
Rev. 13:8. God's form bent over the sculptured face and breathed. Dust stirred on the lips of the new one, the chest rose, cracking the red mud, the cheeks fleshed up, a finger moved, an eye opened. But more incredible than the moving of the flesh was the stirring of the spirit, those who could see the unseen gasped.

Perhaps it was the wind who said it first, perhaps what the star saw that moment is what has made it blink ever since. " It looks like..... it appears to be so much like... it is Him!" The angel wasn't speaking of the face, the features or the body, he was looking inside--- at the spirit. Ecc. 3: 21, 11:7 "It is eternal!" gasped another.

Within the Redeemed man, God has placed a divine seed. A seed of Himself.
the God of might had created earth's masterpiece. The creator had created, not a creature, but another creator, and the one who had chosen to love had created one who could love in return.

"I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways; he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price, nor reward, says the Lord of hosts." Isaiah 45: 12, 13.

Now it is our Choice** to Love our Father, the Creator, because of Jesus??
**"You have not chosen me, but, I have Chosen you." John 15: 16.
 
-Cp said:
God does what he wants, when He wants, look at Saul who became Paul. God changed him, Paul didn't have much of a choice. Judas was chosen and the list goes on.

I'm not denying that God has the ability to act whenever and wherever He chooses. But to say that mankind has absolutely no free will is incorrect. When I see a person who is forced by God into never sinning, then I will give up my belief in free will. Otherwise, how could God be just when judging someone for sinning? Even Jesus - fully human and fully divine - did nothing out of compulsion, but out of voluntary, loving obedience to the Father.
 
gop_jeff said:
I'm not denying that God has the ability to act whenever and wherever He chooses. But to say that mankind has absolutely no free will is incorrect. When I see a person who is forced by God into never sinning, then I will give up my belief in free will. Otherwise, how could God be just when judging someone for sinning? Even Jesus - fully human and fully divine - did nothing out of compulsion, but out of voluntary, loving obedience to the Father.

Let me put it this way. You have the free will to buy a Ford or a Chevy, to eat meat or veggies, but concerning your salvation, Christ paid the ultimate price to take that decision out of the hand of man.
 
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods; (Joshua 24:15-16)

I think that settles the question right there. The Prophet of the Lord and leader of Israel told the people they had a choice to serve the idols or they could serve the Lord and Israel chose to serve the Lord.

I think there are those who wrest the words of Paul and somehow think that if we choose whether we serve the Lord that means we somehow trying to "work" our way into heaven or somehow we aren't in control. But God doesn't force us to come to Him, He invites us. We enter into a covenant with God. God's covenant with Israel is often typed as a marriage covenant. In marriage, a husband chooses a bride and a bride chooses a groom. There is choice on both sides. If we are faithful to the covenant we make, God will be faithful to the covenant He made and cover us through the Blood of His Son.
 
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-Cp said:
Let me put it this way. You have the free will to buy a Ford or a Chevy, to eat meat or veggies, but concerning your salvation, Christ paid the ultimate price to take that decision out of the hand of man.

So if God has decided who is saved and who is not (since youve now jumped into predestination), what is the point of righteous behavior or confessions of faith, if it has no bearing on one's salvation?

BTW - great post Avatar, and great Scripture reference.
 

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