Free Will?

[Amzi]

Do we really have any free will? All of our decisions are influenced by our environment and surroundings- thus not 'free'. Even though we make a choice out of several choices it doesn't mean that it was a completely objective, or 'free' choice. In fact, you could easily make the argument it is impossible to reach an objective point of view.

I think it's really hard to explain, but I hope you guys get my point.

Discuss.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Do we really have any free will? All of our decisions are influenced by our environment and surroundings- thus not 'free'. Even though we make a choice out of several choices it doesn't mean that it was a completely objective, or 'free' choice. In fact, you could easily make the argument it is impossible to reach an objective point of view.

I think it's really hard to explain, but I hope you guys get my point.

Discuss.

Decisions are made from the collection of past experiences or knowledge. Your free to decide for good, bad or somewhere in between, so what's the problem?

An true objective point of view would be strictly the facts and therefore not really a point of view.

 

[dilloduck]

Do we really have any free will? All of our decisions are influenced by our environment and surroundings- thus not 'free'. Even though we make a choice out of several choices it doesn't mean that it was a completely objective, or 'free' choice. In fact, you could easily make the argument it is impossible to reach an objective point of view.

I think it's really hard to explain, but I hope you guys get my point.

Discuss.

Decisions are made from the collection of past experiences or knowledge. Your free to decide for good, bad or somewhere in between, so what's the problem?

An true objective point of view would be strictly the facts and therefore not really a point of view.

who decides what those pesky facts are ?

 

[Amzi]

But how do we decide what is 'good bad or somewhere in between'? Its because of your surroundings. If you were raised in a completely different way your views of good and bad would be completely skewed from what they are now.

 

[sboyle24]

Free Will... Smith

 

[Amzi]

Free Will......y

 

[Missourian]

Do we really have any free will? All of our decisions are influenced by our environment and surroundings- thus not 'free'. Even though we make a choice out of several choices it doesn't mean that it was a completely objective, or 'free' choice. In fact, you could easily make the argument it is impossible to reach an objective point of view.

I think it's really hard to explain, but I hope you guys get my point.

Discuss.

Interesting theory, but I disagree.

If our choices were only influenced by our environment and surroundings, wouldn't we make choices based on the least inconvenient (AKA easiest) course of action?

 

[xotoxi]

Do we really have any free will? All of our decisions are influenced by our environment and surroundings- thus not 'free'. Even though we make a choice out of several choices it doesn't mean that it was a completely objective, or 'free' choice. In fact, you could easily make the argument it is impossible to reach an objective point of view.

I think it's really hard to explain, but I hope you guys get my point.

Discuss.

I just took a deep breath.

No one told me to do it.

 

[sboyle24]

do we really have any free will? All of our decisions are influenced by our environment and surroundings- thus not 'free'. Even though we make a choice out of several choices it doesn't mean that it was a completely objective, or 'free' choice. In fact, you could easily make the argument it is impossible to reach an objective point of view.

I think it's really hard to explain, but i hope you guys get my point.

Discuss.

i just took a deep breath.

No one told me to do it.

it's a conspiracy can't you see!!!

 

[Lumpy 1]

But how do we decide what is 'good bad or somewhere in between'? Its because of your surroundings. If you were raised in a completely different way your views of good and bad would be completely skewed from what they are now.

This is why a foundation of Christian belief is important in my opinion.

Not that you have to join an organized religion but that the concepts of good and evil provoke thought and the possibility of being part something greater than self.

 

[FireGod]

Do we really have any free will? All of our decisions are influenced by our environment and surroundings- thus not 'free'. Even though we make a choice out of several choices it doesn't mean that it was a completely objective, or 'free' choice. In fact, you could easily make the argument it is impossible to reach an objective point of view.

I think it's really hard to explain, but I hope you guys get my point.

Discuss.

Yes, you take all the information that you have on hand, all your previous experiences, your beliefs and gut mix them all together and there you go free will.

 

[Amzi]

Do we really have any free will? All of our decisions are influenced by our environment and surroundings- thus not 'free'. Even though we make a choice out of several choices it doesn't mean that it was a completely objective, or 'free' choice. In fact, you could easily make the argument it is impossible to reach an objective point of view.

I think it's really hard to explain, but I hope you guys get my point.

Discuss.

Yes, you take all the information that you have on hand, all your previous experiences, your beliefs and gut mix them all together and there you go free will.

Previous experiences- Influenced/Controlled by your environment
Beliefs- Based on previous experiences and how you were brought up (environment)
Gut- Instinct. Most certainly not free will.

 

[foggedinn]

Freewill vs. predestination. It seems most churches teach that we have freewill. Scripture clearly states that some things are predestinate. Some of the "elect" will clearly act in a certain way. Most churches also teach that we have a sinful nature married to that freewill. We will chose greed, lust, envy, pride over the virtues taught by the church.

It's an old arguement. Maybe there's someone on the board smart enough to resolve it.

 

[Ragnar]

Yes we all have free will. It is self-evident.

It's part of what makes humans different from all the other animals. Conceptual knowledge means human knowledge. As opposed to sensations and preceptual knowledge. All living things use preception to survive. (sight, sound, touch ect integrated into precepts) Humans can use precepts and concepts. Our conceptual tool is our free will, our consciousness. We decide what knowledge to seek out, use, discard or intigrate into conceptual knowledge.

We can even choose not to think. To unfocus our brains as we might our eye's. However we can't choose to escape the rules of reality. We can't evade the consequences of our choices.

We not only "think therefore we are" we do so in a volitional way.

 

[casper4020322]

After Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge is when God decided to give all men (and women) free will of thought, decisions, etc. How you use it is up to you but there are consequences in how you choose to use your free will. For instance, if you steal which is a sin according to the Ten Commandments then you will eventually get caught and if not, then you will reap what you sow in some other way. Free will is not a gift from God, it is a punishment of what Adam and Eve did after being told by him of what not to do!!

 

[Amzi]

After Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge is when God decided to give all men (and women) free will of thought, decisions, etc. How you use it is up to you but there are consequences in how you choose to use your free will. For instance, if you steal which is a sin according to the Ten Commandments then you will eventually get caught and if not, then you will reap what you sow in some other way. Free will is not a gift from God, it is a punishment of what Adam and Eve did after being told by him of what not to do!!

Let's think for ourselves here.....

Anyways, just for the record I am not saying that I buy that we don't have free will I am merely theorizing.

'We decide what knowledge to seek out, use, discard or intigrate into conceptual knowledge'

Isn't the knowledge we seek out to survive? Or if not, if you look something up just because you really want to know it, there has to be a reason. Perhaps it is because you heard about it and were wondering. You couldn't stand to not know it, so you looked it up. And....

I don't know where I am going. I am just saying if you dig deep enough, there is usually a reason other than 'I just wanted to' for why you did something which could be interpreted as a lack of free will.

 

[Ragnar]

Isn't the knowledge we seek out to survive? Or if not, if you look something up just because you really want to know it, there has to be a reason. Perhaps it is because you heard about it and were wondering. You couldn't stand to not know it, so you looked it up. And....

I don't know where I am going. I am just saying if you dig deep enough, there is usually a reason other than 'I just wanted to' for why you did something which could be interpreted as a lack of free will.

Yeah, to survive and to thrive as well.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that having a reason for doing something means free will was not involved. (or maybe I need to understand the argument better?)

Reason qua reason IS the result, is our free will put to it's most effective use. I can't fight a bear or wolf but I can out-think them. I can see the leaves changing colors and reason that winter is coming. Perhaps a good time to acquire a bearskin rug and some wolf fur boots. I can also chart the stars to determine the seasons and use them for navigation as well. Our conceptual consiousness not only allows our brains to hold great amounts of data but our free will allows us to abstract that data. We alter it and project multiple possibilities and choose among the most likely.

Our simple ability to focus and unfocus our minds is the most self evident proof in my opinion. Though free will is no guarantee that my knowledge is correct no matter how focused I might be.

I once heard free will described in psychological terms thus... " The id mocks the ego with the formulation 'it occured to me' ".

 

[casper4020322]

My question is: Why did God give us free will when he created us? It's obvious so that we could make our own decisions be they good or bad but was it to test us? What do you think?

 

[foggedinn]

My question is: Why did God give us free will when he created us? It's obvious so that we could make our own decisions be they good or bad but was it to test us? What do you think?

God gave a pretty simple rule to Adam; don't eat from this tree. He also gave him an advisary, who is more subtle than any beast of the garden.

It is a simple truth. Accept it as a child accepts truth.

 

[Amzi]

My question is: Why did God give us free will when he created us? It's obvious so that we could make our own decisions be they good or bad but was it to test us? What do you think?

I don't think anyone 'gave' us free will. I think we developed it.

@Ragnar- Again, I am just theorizing.