Free Will vs Religion

Un4g1vng0dZ

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2017
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Many religions exist in this world. The difference in them vary. One belief most seem to share is a higher being creating the world and in turn creating mankind. Giving mankind ultimate rules of how one should live their life. Also giving us the free will to do what we want. Why? Are we a science experiment? Live this way and be eternally rewarded live the opposite and be eternally damned.. What's the point in creating something set up to ultimately fail..
 
Right Un4g1vng0dZ
It makes no sense if humanity had been set up to fail.
But it does make sense if we were set up to succeed.
As painful and expensive our learning curve is,
the more precious and valued the lessons we learn.
The cost of our self-awareness and the eventual
self-realization as we reach maturity, both spiritually
and socially, make the end game even deeper in value
and in significance for the battles we win and lose along the way,
in the path to achieving lasting justice and peace when all is said and done.
 
Many religions exist in this world. The difference in them vary. One belief most seem to share is a higher being creating the world and in turn creating mankind. Giving mankind ultimate rules of how one should live their life. Also giving us the free will to do what we want. Why? Are we a science experiment? Live this way and be eternally rewarded live the opposite and be eternally damned.. What's the point in creating something set up to ultimately fail..
Emily is correct. I will add, don't worry about the destination. Focus on the journey. Treat everything you do as a sacred act. Live in the present. Live life with passion.
 
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your question is more relevant for what transpired in the early 1st century antiquity than the structural religions such as 4th century christianity.

the 1st century gave hope for the individual to aspire and free their Spirit to accomplish a life in the Everlasting - the structured textural religions remove the individuals Spirit from accomplishing their own reward and relegate living beings as subservient to literature that is partisan and noxious.

1st century requires for all to succeed or non in the final Judgement to complete the meaning for life, the structural religions concern only theirselves in Judgement and reflects the futility of your OP.
 
.
your question is more relevant for what transpired in the early 1st century antiquity than the structural religions such as 4th century christianity.

the 1st century gave hope for the individual to aspire and free their Spirit to accomplish a life in the Everlasting - the structured textural religions remove the individuals Spirit from accomplishing their own reward and relegate living beings as subservient to literature that is partisan and noxious.

1st century requires for all to succeed or non in the final Judgement to complete the meaning for life, the structural religions concern only theirselves in Judgement and reflects the futility of your OP.
07 Judaism

08 Christianity
 
.
your question is more relevant for what transpired in the early 1st century antiquity than the structural religions such as 4th century christianity.

the 1st century gave hope for the individual to aspire and free their Spirit to accomplish a life in the Everlasting - the structured textural religions remove the individuals Spirit from accomplishing their own reward and relegate living beings as subservient to literature that is partisan and noxious.

1st century requires for all to succeed or non in the final Judgement to complete the meaning for life, the structural religions concern only theirselves in Judgement and reflects the futility of your OP.
07 Judaism

08 Christianity
.


you left out Islam, all three of which do not recognize the other two, though they have the same 10,000 page document that defines each simerally ... not one of which have an unblemished history for any time period from the periods of their origination to the present day.


the true 1st century "religion" is comprised of just six words - The Triumph of Good vs Evil. the above three are no where to be found.
 
.
your question is more relevant for what transpired in the early 1st century antiquity than the structural religions such as 4th century christianity.

the 1st century gave hope for the individual to aspire and free their Spirit to accomplish a life in the Everlasting - the structured textural religions remove the individuals Spirit from accomplishing their own reward and relegate living beings as subservient to literature that is partisan and noxious.

1st century requires for all to succeed or non in the final Judgement to complete the meaning for life, the structural religions concern only theirselves in Judgement and reflects the futility of your OP.
07 Judaism

08 Christianity
.


you left out Islam, all three of which do not recognize the other two, though they have the same 10,000 page document that defines each simerally ... not one of which have an unblemished history for any time period from the periods of their origination to the present day.


the true 1st century "religion" is comprised of just six words - The Triumph of Good vs Evil. the above three are no where to be found.
Is this the religion you are talking about? Who knew you were a Mormon?

One true church - Wikipedia
 
God creates humans in the perfect environment.
Free will is acting in accordance with remaining in that environment.
Being an egoistic jackass is one of the attributes that gets you kicked out.
 
God creates humans in the perfect environment.
Free will is acting in accordance with remaining in that environment.
Being an egoistic jackass is one of the attributes that gets you kicked out.
Would it be fair to say then that there is a difference between successful behaviors like treating each act like a sacred act (i.e. praising God), thanking God, especially when times are hard and being humble and failed behaviors like being ungrateful, treating each task lice a choir and being arrogant? In fact, couldn't we say that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure? Sort of like moral laws of nature.
 
God creates humans in the perfect environment.
Free will is acting in accordance with remaining in that environment.
Being an egoistic jackass is one of the attributes that gets you kicked out.
Would it be fair to say then that there is a difference between successful behaviors like treating each act like a sacred act (i.e. praising God), thanking God, especially when times are hard and being humble and failed behaviors like being ungrateful, treating each task lice a choir and being arrogant? In fact, couldn't we say that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure? Sort of like moral laws of nature.

When mankind is exposed to God, such as Adam or when God announced the 10 Commandments, nothing too bad happened because consequences were in accordance with their level of awareness.
We live in a state of almost complete concealment from God, so that when seemingly bad things happen, they must be acknowledged by us as good.
 
God creates humans in the perfect environment.
Free will is acting in accordance with remaining in that environment.
Being an egoistic jackass is one of the attributes that gets you kicked out.
Would it be fair to say then that there is a difference between successful behaviors like treating each act like a sacred act (i.e. praising God), thanking God, especially when times are hard and being humble and failed behaviors like being ungrateful, treating each task lice a choir and being arrogant? In fact, couldn't we say that successful behaviors naturally lead to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failure? Sort of like moral laws of nature.

When mankind is exposed to God, such as Adam or when God announced the 10 Commandments, nothing too bad happened because consequences were in accordance with their level of awareness.
We live in a state of almost complete concealment from God, so that when seemingly bad things happen, they must be acknowledged by us as good.
Suffering has a way of bringing out the best of men. Forgetting tends to bring out the worst.
 
.
your question is more relevant for what transpired in the early 1st century antiquity than the structural religions such as 4th century christianity.

the 1st century gave hope for the individual to aspire and free their Spirit to accomplish a life in the Everlasting - the structured textural religions remove the individuals Spirit from accomplishing their own reward and relegate living beings as subservient to literature that is partisan and noxious.

1st century requires for all to succeed or non in the final Judgement to complete the meaning for life, the structural religions concern only theirselves in Judgement and reflects the futility of your OP.
07 Judaism

08 Christianity
.


you left out Islam, all three of which do not recognize the other two, though they have the same 10,000 page document that defines each simerally ... not one of which have an unblemished history for any time period from the periods of their origination to the present day.


the true 1st century "religion" is comprised of just six words - The Triumph of Good vs Evil. the above three are no where to be found.
The links were from Huston Smith's "Illustrated World Religion." In the book he says, that we are not expected to understand the religion of others, but as long as we remember that they are just like us we don't have to fail miserably. You fail miserably. You condemn respect for anyone of faith not your own which as near as I can tell is humanism.
 
Right Un4g1vng0dZ
It makes no sense if humanity had been set up to fail.
But it does make sense if we were set up to succeed.
As painful and expensive our learning curve is,
the more precious and valued the lessons we learn.
The cost of our self-awareness and the eventual
self-realization as we reach maturity, both spiritually
and socially, make the end game even deeper in value
and in significance for the battles we win and lose along the way,
in the path to achieving lasting justice and peace when all is said and done.
How is humanity set up to succeed? On a global scale humanity uses religion as more of a weapon than anything else.. On an individual scale it's used as more of a judgement of ones character.. It seems it brings on more conflict than resolution. Mankind has taken their free will and religion to assume the roll of God and pass down judgement as they see fit. We sin... everyone does. Nobody is perfect but no one is God either.. The religious system..in every variation is ultimately set up to fail... no one can follow it's laws. My question is why has an all knowing being set us up to fail so miserably?
 
Right Un4g1vng0dZ
It makes no sense if humanity had been set up to fail.
But it does make sense if we were set up to succeed.
As painful and expensive our learning curve is,
the more precious and valued the lessons we learn.
The cost of our self-awareness and the eventual
self-realization as we reach maturity, both spiritually
and socially, make the end game even deeper in value
and in significance for the battles we win and lose along the way,
in the path to achieving lasting justice and peace when all is said and done.
How is humanity set up to succeed? On a global scale humanity uses religion as more of a weapon than anything else.. On an individual scale it's used as more of a judgement of ones character.. It seems it brings on more conflict than resolution. Mankind has taken their free will and religion to assume the roll of God and pass down judgement as they see fit. We sin... everyone does. Nobody is perfect but no one is God either.. The religious system..in every variation is ultimately set up to fail... no one can follow it's laws. My question is why has an all knowing being set us up to fail so miserably?

Dear Un4g1vng0dZ
As horrible as the destruction is, the war the rape and genocides, even the mass cult and drug addictions and abuses where people kill themselves or other people either slowly and painfully over time or quickly without blinking,
as much horror as there is and has been,
I have also seen nobility and charity that far outweighs the worst side of humanity.

I have seen people come back from these depths of depravity, turn their lives around, and be so BEYOND grateful for the chance to use their lives for good instead of evil, that they go OVERBOARD in the OTHER direction.

If this transformation and redemption is possible for one person here, another person there (who usually end up starting nonprofit outreach to help others the same way they got help to change their lives 360), then the same can happen for all humanity collectively, given the trajectory of this learning curve. For all the bad that happens, the good not only exceeds it, but outlives it and multiplies and sustains while the bad only feeds on itself until it collapses or implodes. Only the good energy can keep replicating and expanding, but the bad can't keep supporting itself. So eventually the good outlasts the bad, but it takes time. Like running clothes through the wash several times before all the dirt finally gets cleared out.

I just happen to have seen enough proof of this to know it works, the good in humanity can beat the bad side of this same learning curve.

I don't think you and I would have anything to discuss if it were truly hopeless. There is always more we can be doing to SPEED UP the positive cycle and cut down on the negative patterns repeating.

Just you being here and asking why and how is enough to start the ball rolling in the right direction.

You have more power than you think. And I hope in asking and sharing with others here, you realize your true potential to make that difference in the world that is greater than the bad side going on around us.

What one monk said that kind of hits home with me, even if a cave has been cloaked and sealed in darkness for thousands of years, all it takes is a single lit match, the tiniest flicker of light to enter that darkness and BOOM you can see. You can beat the darkness that has been there longer and is greater in volume than that tiny light that defeats its ability to blind and scare or render people helpless.

Well our job is to take our tiny light, and help light the candle for the next person who feels overwhelmed in the dark. There can still be more darkness than there is light, but we will be able to see and we can do what we need to do despite the darkness around us. It doesn't have to get in our way or obstruct us.

So we don't have to have bigger numbers, we just have to work smarter with what we have, and we can achieve what we need to do here.

I hope that helps you see it isn't a matter of being outnumbered because that's always going to be so. Look at math, the quantity and probability of WRONG answers is always going to far outnumber the right answers where in many cases there is only 1. So of course those right answers are outnumbered, by probability alone. There are infinite wrong ways to do the same problem.

Well with people problems there are many ways we can do things right. We just have to agree which combination to try in what order or timing. So yes it's hard to get an agreement. But once we align and intersect where we agree, it's pretty clear what will work. If we only agree on one or two points, well, at least it's clear where to focus.

Like those tiny flickers of light, they stand out in the darkness even if they are few and far between. Those right answers will work and we will recognize them because they are so rare and precious.

Remember the value of the tiny diamonds are priceless next to the huge chunks of coal and dirt that mask them which are practically worthless in comparison. But that doesn't stop miners from going after those rare diamonds in all that coal and dirt filling up the caves.

We need to go after the diamonds hidden in each of us, even the most stubborn lump of coal.

No matter how much digging and cutting it takes, the effort pays off in the end. The more we invest, the greater the reward. And once we start investing our energy and focus on the positive cycle, the negative cycle can't compete with that. A few people with the right idea can outweigh and defeat the competition that far outnumber us.

Take care Un4g1vng0dZ
and I hope this helps!

Yours truly,
Emily
 
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Mankind has taken their free will and religion to assume the roll of God and pass down judgement as they see fit. We sin... everyone does. Nobody is perfect but no one is God either.. The religious system..in every variation is ultimately set up to fail... no one can follow it's laws. My question is why has an all knowing being set us up to fail so miserably?


the all knowing being, if you must, rendered free will and not a "religious system" for an individual to accomplish Admission to the Everlasting by their own accord when there is a desire to do so or to just enjoy life to its fullest. either way an honest person should prevail in a rich life.

the "religious system" is the human construct for a false Almighty.
 
.
Mankind has taken their free will and religion to assume the roll of God and pass down judgement as they see fit. We sin... everyone does. Nobody is perfect but no one is God either.. The religious system..in every variation is ultimately set up to fail... no one can follow it's laws. My question is why has an all knowing being set us up to fail so miserably?


the all knowing being, if you must, rendered free will and not a "religious system" for an individual to accomplish Admission to the Everlasting by their own accord when there is a desire to do so or to just enjoy life to its fullest. either way an honest person should prevail in a rich life.

the "religious system" is the human construct for a false Almighty.
Horseshit. In any society or organization there will necessarily be a hierarchy. That does not negate our free will or imply we are "ruled" by men. Nor does it make it a false god.
 
Right Un4g1vng0dZ
It makes no sense if humanity had been set up to fail.
But it does make sense if we were set up to succeed.
As painful and expensive our learning curve is,
the more precious and valued the lessons we learn.
The cost of our self-awareness and the eventual
self-realization as we reach maturity, both spiritually
and socially, make the end game even deeper in value
and in significance for the battles we win and lose along the way,
in the path to achieving lasting justice and peace when all is said and done.
How is humanity set up to succeed? On a global scale humanity uses religion as more of a weapon than anything else.. On an individual scale it's used as more of a judgement of ones character.. It seems it brings on more conflict than resolution. Mankind has taken their free will and religion to assume the roll of God and pass down judgement as they see fit. We sin... everyone does. Nobody is perfect but no one is God either.. The religious system..in every variation is ultimately set up to fail... no one can follow it's laws. My question is why has an all knowing being set us up to fail so miserably?
Religion does not judge people. People judge people. In any society or organization there will necessarily be a hierarchy. That does not negate free will. Your problem is with free will. What you don't realize is what it would be like in a world without religion, for a world without religion would be a world that did not believe in God. You have never lived in a world like that to make a proper comparison.
 
Right Un4g1vng0dZ
It makes no sense if humanity had been set up to fail.
But it does make sense if we were set up to succeed.
As painful and expensive our learning curve is,
the more precious and valued the lessons we learn.
The cost of our self-awareness and the eventual
self-realization as we reach maturity, both spiritually
and socially, make the end game even deeper in value
and in significance for the battles we win and lose along the way,
in the path to achieving lasting justice and peace when all is said and done.
How is humanity set up to succeed? On a global scale humanity uses religion as more of a weapon than anything else.. On an individual scale it's used as more of a judgement of ones character.. It seems it brings on more conflict than resolution. Mankind has taken their free will and religion to assume the roll of God and pass down judgement as they see fit. We sin... everyone does. Nobody is perfect but no one is God either.. The religious system..in every variation is ultimately set up to fail... no one can follow it's laws. My question is why has an all knowing being set us up to fail so miserably?
Religion does not judge people. People judge people. In any society or organization there will necessarily be a hierarchy. That does not negate free will. Your problem is with free will. What you don't realize is what it would be like in a world without religion, for a world without religion would be a world that did not believe in God. You have never lived in a world like that to make a proper comparison.
So god won't judge me? Cool. :cool:
 

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