Free masons in the government

[KSigMason]

I believe I said freedom not rights.

Any time one joins a group you give up some freedoms.

do you have the freedom to tell the world about the secret aspects of your order?

I sure do, but I promised I wouldn't and I am a man of my word. Any reprimand for such a disclosure though would only interfere with my membership in Masonry, not my life outside the Craft.

 

[uscitizen]

I believe I said freedom not rights.

Any time one joins a group you give up some freedoms.

do you have the freedom to tell the world about the secret aspects of your order?

I sure do, but I promised I wouldn't and I am a man of my word. Any reprimand for such a disclosure though would only interfere with my membership in Masonry, not my life outside the Craft.

Still it is a freedom you gave up to belong to a group.

 

[KSigMason]

Still it is a freedom you gave up to belong to a group.

I didn't give it up. I just choose not to exercise it. It's something called loyalty...you know fidelity.

 

[editec]

Shriners are an amusing lot.

They do a lot of good works.

Goofy hats, of course.

 

[KSigMason]

Shriners are an amusing lot.

They do a lot of good works.

Goofy hats, of course.

Yeah, they are like the college fraternity of the Masons.

 

[tigerbob]

I believe I said freedom not rights.

Any time one joins a group you give up some freedoms.

do you have the freedom to tell the world about the secret aspects of your order?

I sure do, but I promised I wouldn't and I am a man of my word. Any reprimand for such a disclosure though would only interfere with my membership in Masonry, not my life outside the Craft.

Nicely put. And I would expect no less of a Man of Honor.

 

[KSigMason]

For those interested, here is a degree structure of the fraternity:

 

[Douger]

For one, notice how i say not all masons are bad, ie my grandfather in the scottish rite. I may be ill informed on somethings, but thats only cause my grandfather died before i was rightful age to join, or for him to tell me certain things. My grandfather also told me this old saying "ask a freemason about the faternity and you will get a lie". im not going to sit here and say i know everything there is to know about masonry, but im not going to sit here and believe everything thrown at me. i make educated decisions, with a fair chance for both sides. im not saying freemasonry is the father and creator of the evil elite. im just saying that they probably used freemasonry as a networking medium to meet other elites. now what i do say i only say from the mouths of freemasons, shriners themselves. people like john todd, bill schnoebelen, etc. who have left positions as masons and shriners, who can prove that they were members, who can prove anything they back up, certificates, pictures, documents. so yes i may be in the dark on a portion of things, but i have done my homework, i have listened to masons who have left, and i dont just jump off and believe all masons are evil and intend to take over the world. i do believe though that there are some out there, ruining it for the others, just like you find in any group. hell even on of the freemasons mascot, george washington, denounced masonry towards the end of his death. he went on to say "for the most part child's play," and that "it might be used for the worst of purposes." after 1753 george washington stopped attending lodge meetings all together. towards the end he made some speeches against masonry.

I'm sorry to disagree with your grandfather but generally freemasons (in England anyway, I guess it's the same over here) are quite happy to admit they are freemasons, to talk to you about what freemasonry does and what it is about, and even talk to you about their lodge. They just won't tell you certain things that go on during lodge meetings. If you seriously expect to be told everything without being a mason yourself then, of course, you will not be. I'm not sure why anyone finds this surprising.

You spend a lot of time backing away from what you were insinuating earlier, which I'm glad to see. I have no idea whether anyone "used freemasonry as a networking medium to meet other elites". If it was, again, I'd be extremely surprised, and I'd be absolutely certain that it doesn't happen today. Today I believe that elites who want to meet each other do so through Accenture, Cap Gemini or IBM, not a masonic lodge. Masons generally take a dim view of the craft being used as a means of self advancement.

As for those who claim to be masons and who are happy to discuss openly that which they took a sacred oath not to discuss, well, I tend to be suspicious of the motives of such people. I was going to make another point but I've forgotten what it was so I'll leave it at that for now.

I recommend waterboarding.

 

[KSigMason]

I recommend waterboarding.

Who? The Masons or anti-Masons?

 

[tigerbob]

I recommend waterboarding.

Who? The Masons or anti-Masons?

Either. I think he just likes the idea of waterboarding.

 

[KSigMason]

I forgot to add that the dashed lines indicate that it is a invitation-only body.

Either. I think he just likes the idea of waterboarding.

Whatever gets him off.

 

[KSigMason]

THE GREAT SEAL OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Let us start with the Great Seal. Conspirators try to point out that Masons designed it, but what they don't realize it that Ben Franklin was only on the 1st committee. There were a few more committees that didn't include any Masons.

Let's start with the the hidden anagram. If you look at the 13-stars above the Eagles head you are able to draw a 6-pointed star (Star of David). Then take that star and place it over the disc with the pyramid and all-seeing eye. Five of the points point toward the letters: A, S, N, O, and M. Switch them around and you get 'MASON'. Many conspirators believe this "definitively" proves the Masons have their hand in the making of the One Dollar Bill and from that the government. I personally think this is folly. It's the same argument conspirators use to say Masons designed the roads in Washington DC.

The Eagle. There are a couple things I have heard about the Eagle on the bill: a) it's really a Phoenix and b) the Eagle connects Freemasonry to the Egyptian god Aman-Ra. To start out, Ben Franklin originally wanted a Turkey to be the American bird. He believed it be a courageous bird. As for the Phoenix twist, I have yet to see the Phoenix in any of my ceremonies. Nor do we have a connection to the Egyptian sun god Aman-Ra. Some point out the whole All-Seeing Eye is the Eye of Ra, but I'll get to that later. Some point out that the wings have 32-feathers on one wing and 33-feathers on another. I believe this to be a spectacular coincidence and not some connection to the Scottish Rite. The American Bald Eagles seemed like a symbol for strength and freedom, thus the reason it was picked. Also, Ben Franklin wanted the turkey as the national bird, not the eagle, and Ben was the only Freemason on any of the committees.

E Pluribus Unum is not often used as a conspiracy support, but lets cover it. Out of Many, One. It refers to one nation created out of many individual states. That's it.

Let's jump to the other disc. At the top is written, Annuit Coeptis: God has favored our undertaking. At the bottom is written, Novus Ordo Seclorum: New Order of the Ages, though conspiracy theorists say it means "New World Order. Conspirators say that the two phrases taken together means "God has favored this New World Order". But anyone who has the smallest knowledge of Latin would know it really says "New Order of the Ages".

To a very familiar symbol to all the Craft, the All-Seeing Eye. A very "(*)(*)(*)(*)ing" piece of evidence for the conspiracy, supposedly. While the All-Seeing Eye is frequently used in Freemasonry this symbol is also used and has been used in mainstream religions with the same meaning; God. No symbol has a finite, singular meaning, but rather depends for its meaning on the knowledge of the viewer.

As for the pyramid, I have heard from the same "Egyptian mythology" conspirators that the pyramid is where Masons are initiated. Masons know otherwise as the Pyramid is not a Masonic symbol.

At the base of the pyramid are some plants. Some say it is the acasia which certainly would be a symbol of Freemasonry. While it seems too small to depict, it would be very funny if it was an acasia.

Let's play the number game. The theory is that the number 13 is a number held in high esteem by Masons. I laugh because while 13 is used every on the dollar bill it couldn't possibly be a reference to the original 13-colonies.

Let's also look at the committees that created the Great Seal:

Of the four men involved in designing the USA seal in 1776, only Benjamin Franklin was a freemason, and he contributed nothing of a masonic nature to the committee’s proposed design for a seal. The committeemen were Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams, with Pierre Du Simitiere as artist and consultant.1

---

Congress declined the first committee’s suggestions as well as those of its 1780 committee. Francis Hopkinson, consultant to the second (1782) committee, used an unfinished pyramid in his design. Charles Thomson, Secretary of Congress, and William Barton, artist and consultant, borrowed from earlier designs and sketched what at length became the United States Seal. None of the final designers of the seal—William Baron, Charles Thomson, Sir John Prestwick—were freemasons.

"The single eye was a well-established artistic convention for an 'omniscient Ubiquitous Deity' in the medallic art of the Renaissance. In 1614 the frontispiece of The History of the World by Sir Walter Raleigh showed an eye in a cloud labeled "Providentia" overlooking a globe. Du Simitiere, who suggested using the symbol, collected art books and was familiar with the artistic and ornamental devices used in Renaissance art."3

The all-seeing eye of God is noted several times in the Christian Bible*)
Psalm 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.(*)
Psalm 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;(*)
Ezekiel 20:17 Nevertheless mine eye spared them from destroying them, neither did I make an end of them in the wilderness.

The misinterpretation of the seal as a masonic emblem may have been first introduced a century later in 1884. Harvard professor, Eliot Charles Norton (1827-190, wrote that the reverse was "practically incapable of effective treatment; it can hardly, (however artistically treated by the designer), look otherwise than as a dull emblem of a masonic fraternity."4

The first "official" use and definition of the all-seeing eye as a masonic symbol seems to have come in 1797 with The Freemasons Monitor of Thomas Smith Webb — 14 years after Congress adopted the design for the Seal: "...and although our thoughts, words and actions, may be hidden from the eyes of man yet that All-Seeing Eye, whom the Sun Moon and Stars obey, and under whose watchful care even comets perform their stupendous revolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human heart, and will reward us according to our merits."

SOURCE

You can also read the official history of the Seal here: http://www.state.gov/www/publications/great_seal.pdf. In it we see that Ben Franklin was only in the first and his designs were not accepted and the 1st committee's design was rejected. The pyramid didn't make an appearance until the 3rd committee composed of no Masons. The fourth and final committee was formed 6-years after the 1st committee and with no Masons. You have no stand on this issue and your continued ignorance will just prove you a fool.

The Eye of Providence had been a well-known classical symbol of the deity since at least the Renaissance, which Du Simitiere was familiar with.

---

On June 13, 1782, the Congress turned to its Secretary Charles Thomson, and provided all material submitted by the first three committees. Thomson was 53 years old, and had been a Latin master at a Philadelphia academy. Thomson took elements from all three previous committees, coming up with a new design which provided the basis for the final seal.

---

The motto was E Pluribus Unum, taken from the first committee, and was on a scroll held in the eagle's beak.

---

The final design was a combination of elements provided by all three committees:

First committee:

E Pluribus Unum
Eye of Providence in a triangle (used by Masons)
1776 in Roman numerals

Second committee:

Thirteen red and white stripes and blue chief on shield
Constellation of 13 stars, surrounded by clouds and glory
War and peace theme, including olive branch and (on first draft) arrows

Third committee:

Eagle (though not a bald eagle)
Unfinished pyramid
Overall design of the reverse

Charles Thomson:

Overall design of the obverse
Bald eagle
Annuit Cœptis
Novus Ordo Seclorum

William Barton:

Vertical stripes on shield
Position of eagle's wings

---

Some conspiracy theories state that the Great Seal shows a sinister influence by Freemasonry in the founding of the United States. Such theories usually claim that the Eye of Providence (found, in the Seal, above the pyramid) is a common Masonic emblem, and that the Great Seal was created by Freemasons. These claims, however, misstate the facts.

While the Eye of Providence is currently a common Masonic motif, this was not the case during the 1770s and 1780s (the decades when the Great Seal was being designed and approved). According to David Barrett, a Masonic researcher, the Eye seems to have been used only sporadically by the Masons in those decades, and was not adopted as a common Masonic symbol until 1797, several years after the Great Seal of the United States had already been designed. The Eye of Providence was, on the other hand, a fairly common Christian motif throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and was commonly used as such in Europe as well as America throughout the 18th century.

SOURCE

MASONS ARE SATANISTS

Albert Pike, a Confederate General, author, and well-known Freemason scribed the famous Masonic book, "Morals and Dogma". Inside this book the following passage is cited:

Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!

For semantics sake, many people don't realize that Biblical scholars still argue over the fact that Lucifer may not be Satan since the only reference to Lucifer is in Isaiah:

Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Also, in Roman mythology was the name of the morning star, commonly known as the planet Venus. The morning star preceded the sun (light) of the day. In the 4th century when St. Jerome was translating the Bible the morning or day star was called Lucifer. Also note that there was a Bishop from Cagliari named Lucifer in the 4th century. Also note that earlier in Isaiah it refers to Lucifer as a king of Babylon.

Also, here is quite an interesting verse:

Revelation 22:16 - I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The Bible also says:

2 Peter 1:19 - We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: