Free Market or State Control?

Discussion in 'Economy' started by PoliticalChic, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    1. Milton Friedman asked, “Who makes the decisions?” Well, in some cases, the government:
    a. The only entity capable of serving and protecting individual liberty, as in defense.
    b. The administration of justice.
    c. The maintenance and oversight of federal infrastructure: roads, waterways, parks, etc.

    2. But…government in education? Healthcare? Automobile production? And dubious and absurd programs designed to bring about “equality”? Shouldn’t these decisions be left to the individual, or to the free market, in which forces compete to serve the individual, who will be the arbiter of their success?

    3. But what about the abuses of the free market?
    a. Some will be corrected by the law, and if there is no current law, the citizenry will demand such.
    b. Some abuse run afoul of custom….these will be corrected by censure, withdrawal of custom, or may be criminalized.
    c. Alas, some must be endured, as they would be under any system of government, business or administration.

    4. Now, here is the determining criterion as to which is better: which is better able to correct itself? This is the difference between, as Thomas Sowell would say, the free market (constrained) and the Liberal (unconstrained) view of the world. Either side may be wrong about plans, or about programs. But which system is better able to discard the failed and experiment to find the new.
    a. The constrained view is that no human beings, nor any conglomeration of same, are omnipotent, nor omniscient, nor omnibenevolent. We are even incapable of knowing the true nature of the problems we face. This may be called the Tragic View. The values of one generation are seen later as absurd: slavery, phenology, lobotomy, women as property, etc.

    5. The answer is the free market. It is not perfect; it is simply better than state control. It is the one that has to respond quickly and effectively to dissatisfaction and to demand.
    a. In the free market, if a product or service does not please, it is discontinued. Compare that to government persistence and expansion of programs that proven to have failed decades ago: farm subsidies, aid to Africa, busing, etc.

    6. In the free market, every man, woman and child is scheming to find a better way to make a product or service that will make a fortune!

    7. Hayek points out that there are no solutions, merely tradeoffs. Come up with a way to provide healthcare insurance to all the uninsured…but at the cost of dismantling the healthcare system to the remaining millions? Rationing, shortages, abuse, delay and injustice.

    8. All civilizations need and get government. And many of these began as welfare states, dedicated, supposedly, to distributing the abundant good things to all. The results can be seen in the failures of communist states, socialist states, with the resultant costs, rationing, dissolution. We get to choose between liberty- the freedom from the state to pursue happiness- and some imaginery ‘equality’ which would require a state capable and empowered to function in all facets of life, which means totalitarianism, dictatorship.

    9. The individual must demand the reduction of state, and state powers to the point necessary to carry out legitimate purposes. We have the instructions, called the Constitution.
    Mamet, “The Secret Knowledge,” p. 58-61
     
  2. Supposn
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    Supposn Senior Member

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    Reduce the trade deficit; increase GDP & median wage

    Warren Buffett’s concept to significantly reduce USA’s trade deficit.

    I’m a proponent of a market (rather than a government) driven Import certificate, (IC) trade policy. It grants government no policy discretion; (assessment of goods is a technical rather than a policy determination). Expenses are eventually and entirely borne by U.S. purchasers of foreign goods,

    The proposal excludes values of specifically listed scarce or precious minerals integral to goods being assessed and it completely eliminates the aggregate trade deficit of all assessed goods.

    The basic concept is for exporters who choose to pay the federal fees to acquire TRANSFERABLE IMPORT CERTIFICATES, (ICs) for the assessed value of their goods leaving the USA.

    Importers would be required to surrender ICs for the assessed value of their goods entering the USA. Surrendered certificates are cancelled.
    This may seem as a boon to exporters of USA goods but it’s actually an indirect and effective export subsidy.

    Refer to:
    The topic of “Warren Buffett's concept to significantly reduce USA's trade deficit”
    Posted at 8:10PM, August 30, 2009;
    or www.USA-Trade-Deficit.Blogspot.com
    or Google: “wikipedia, import certificates “.

    Respectfully, Supposn
     
  3. Supposn
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    Supposn Senior Member

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    Political Chic, the Import Certificate proposal is not pure free trade but it’s certainly pure free enterprise. It may not be perfect but it is superior to all other proposed or existing trade policies.

    This trade policy would significantly decrease USA’s trade deficit of goods and increase the aggregate sum of USA’s imports plus exports and our GDP more than otherwise. The GDP bolsters the median wage.

    Wage earning families benefit from cheaper imported goods but every day of every year they’re dependent upon their U.S. wages. Regardless of how small the additions to imports’ prices due to Import Certificates, (unlike tariffs) USA’s assessed imports could never exceed that of our exports. USA consumers will be able to purchase cheap, (but not the absolute cheapest) imported goods. We cannot afford the absolute cheapest.

    Refer to: www.USA-Trade-Deficit.Blogspot.com
    or Google: “wikipedia, import certificates “.

    Respectfully, Supposn
     
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  4. Widdekind
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    Widdekind Member

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    Prices reflect Supply vs. Demand. Prices mandated "too low" anger Producers; those mandated "too high" anger Consumers, e.g. "minimum wages" anger businesses, who must "consume" the labor (cp. Prohibition-inflated prices, of drugs-and-alcohol). Ipso facto, prima facie, wielding of "Government" (i.e. Force), to mandate Prices, reflects extra-economic politicking by Producer or Consumer interest groups, cp. "bullying".
     
  5. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    What happens when too big to fail corporations mostly control our government?
    When many of our people think that whatever is good for Wall Street is good for America?

    For one thing all the old economic rules are thrown out the window.
     
  6. Crackerjack
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    Crackerjack Too sick for a cure

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    Crony capitalism ≠ free market capitalism.
     
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  7. percysunshine
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    percysunshine Gold Member

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    Like General Motors, General Electric, Goldman Sachs, and Solyndra?

    Does it bother you that you voted for a Fascist in 2008?
     
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  8. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    Enron, Goldman Sachs, etc as well?

    Yes it does bother me but it did not take me nearly 8 years to see the truth now did it?

    Both parties are now basically politicorps
     
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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  9. percysunshine
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    percysunshine Gold Member

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    Enron donated their political influence cash to Clinton.

    What a hoot.
     
  10. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    Of course they did he was president during their rise.

    I did say both parties.

    And the selling of our government is tragic, not a hoot.

    We have the best government that money can buy and that is why we are such a mess with no clear way out.
     

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