Free Educations for All

[DontBeStupid]

No... you simply are not OWED it as an adult... you want to further your education, you fucking pay for it... it is a personal choice or responsibility

No huh? So you think it can't even be a benefit of living in this country? Ok. I know you think that way about health care too. So let me ask you, not counting any "rights" we have, what are the benefits of being a citizen of America?

The right to live your life as you see fit. Being able to keep for yourself the fruits of your labor. Not owing anyone anything by virtue of their birth or color of skin. Property rights in what you own, make or buy. Ask an immigrant from a communist country what benefit there is in being a citizen of America.

Ok. I will. Then you can ask a citizen of any industrialized country in Europe, and we'll compare notes.

 

[SniperFire]

No... you simply are not OWED it as an adult... you want to further your education, you fucking pay for it... it is a personal choice or responsibility

No huh? So you think it can't even be a benefit of living in this country? Ok. I know you think that way about health care too. So let me ask you, not counting any "rights" we have, what are the benefits of being a citizen of America?

The right to live your life as you see fit. Being able to keep for yourself the fruits of your labor. Not owing anyone anything by virtue of their birth or color of skin. Property rights in what you own, make or buy. Ask an immigrant from a communist country what benefit there is in being a citizen of America.

Commies just can't understand the difference between actual rights and privileges.

That, or they find it quite convenient to obfuscate between the two.

 

[DiamondDave]

No huh? So you think it can't even be a benefit of living in this country? Ok. I know you think that way about health care too. So let me ask you, not counting any "rights" we have, what are the benefits of being a citizen of America?

No.. I do not...

Well.. it is ALREADY a benefit (the opportunity to seek out an education for yourself as an adult)... you simply have to do what it takes to use the benefit... you don't get things given to you effortlessly as an adult...

The major benefit of being a US citizen is the guaranteeing of your rights (and no, a free education as an adult is not one of them) and the guaranteeing of your freedom to succeed or fail all on your own....

So ... there is no difference between being an American citizen or French citizen or German citizen? Because everything you just talked about is not unique to America. And this is my point. If we're the greatest country on the planet, and we want people to come here legally and become citizens legally, what benefit do they/we get for that? You think it should be absolutely nothing.

Oh, and if you think getting a 4-year degree is "effortless", then why does less than 30% of the population have one?

I did not say the tasks involved to get the result of an education are effortless... but you do not get the classes etc given to you effortlessly because you fucking want them.... want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up faster....

What benefit do you get as an American citizen (natural or naturalized)? The freedom and opportunity here... you don't get your wants simply fulfilled like the government is a goddamn genie.... you are afforded the right to strive toward your goals, all you want... you have the freedom to make the choices and sacrifices and give the effort all you want.... but you don't get it, nor should you, for just fucking existing... You want it? Go for it... I applaud you as many others will.... and you may even find ones willing to help you out of their personal generosity because you showed them something, r you may find an employer who chooses to invest in you and thinks the risk and gamble is worthwhile... Bully... great... awesome.... but it is up to you to show that, choose to do what it takes, choose to burn the candle at both ends with a side of midnight oil, choose to live off Ramen for a year or 3, choose to serve in the military, choose to put off your goal til you save for it, or whatever else... and your freedom to all of that, some of that, or none of that is your benefit as a citizen

 

[DontBeStupid]

Explain 'free' education.

TIA

Paid for by someone else, naturally.

Leftists are greedy, always looking to pick the pocket of their neighbor to get what they want.

I have two degrees that I worked and paid for. I was fortunate. How is me wanting others who are not as fortunate to have the same opportunities I did, how does that make me greedy?

 

[dblack]

I have two degrees that I worked and paid for. I was fortunate. How is me wanting others who are not as fortunate to have the same opportunities I did, how does that make me greedy?

It doesn't. Which is why I think it's a mistake when conservatives assume liberals are simply looking for free stuff. That's almost never the case in my experience. The dynamic I see is this: You want to do good things for the less fortunate, and you're willing to force your neighbors to help you, whether your neighbors agree with what you want to do or not. That's the crux of it.

 

[Claudette]

No huh? So you think it can't even be a benefit of living in this country? Ok. I know you think that way about health care too. So let me ask you, not counting any "rights" we have, what are the benefits of being a citizen of America?

The right to live your life as you see fit. Being able to keep for yourself the fruits of your labor. Not owing anyone anything by virtue of their birth or color of skin. Property rights in what you own, make or buy. Ask an immigrant from a communist country what benefit there is in being a citizen of America.

Ok. I will. Then you can ask a citizen of any industrialized country in Europe, and we'll compare notes.

It ain't free in Europe either.

The folks who pay taxes support that "free" shit. Anyone can take advantage of it even if they supply no taxes to the effort.

Talks about idiots.

 

[DontBeStupid]

No huh? So you think it can't even be a benefit of living in this country? Ok. I know you think that way about health care too. So let me ask you, not counting any "rights" we have, what are the benefits of being a citizen of America?

The right to live your life as you see fit. Being able to keep for yourself the fruits of your labor. Not owing anyone anything by virtue of their birth or color of skin. Property rights in what you own, make or buy. Ask an immigrant from a communist country what benefit there is in being a citizen of America.

Commies just can't understand the difference between actual rights and privileges.

That, or they find it quite convenient to obfuscate between the two.

Then explain it to us. Because what I'm hearing from "conservatives" in this thread is that there are NO benefits to being an American citizen. None. Nothing more special than German citizens or French citizens.

So please, explain to us the "privileges" of being an American citizen.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Lol the US was one of the first countries to provide "free" k-12 education. It helped to build a better workforce and gave America a competitive edge. An employer needs people who can read, write, add, problem solve, etc.

Not even close to true.

America operated on a community education system for the first 150 years. Communities usually built schools for the common education of their children. The state generally had no involvement, the federal government certainly had none.

What changed was the embracing of the Prussian educational system, a systematic method of enforcing a de facto caste system.

{Modern compulsory schooling began in Prussia in 1819, the first time in human history that education was foisted upon a nation by force. The goals were simple: obedient soldiers to the army, subservient workers to the mines, submissive civil servants to the government, compliant clerks to industry and citizens who thought alike about major issues. The results were no doubt pleasing to the Prussian ruling elites; industry boomed and warfare was successful.

In Prussia, the Volksshule educated 92 percent of the children. Its purpose was not to develop the intellect, but to socialize the children in obedience and subordination. Only eight percent of children were schooled in Real Schulen. For the masses, intellectual development was seen as the major contributing factor causing armies to lose battles.}

Compulsory Government Education: Origins and Solutions - Anti-School Articles

The basis and PURPOSE of the American mal-education system is modeled on the Prussian system.

American government schools exist to train the masses in obedience.

 

[kwc57]

What?? You cannot earn good grades and earn a scholarship for yourself??

Everyone can't.

You can't work a job and go to school at night??

Everyone can't.



Everyone can't.



Everyone can't. And it's only a partial solution even for those who can.



Everyone can't.

You can't join the military for the GI Bill??

Everyone can't.

It is not a privilege for the 'wealthy'... it is a privilege for everyone.

That's an oxymoron. Something that is reasonably and realistically available to everyone is a right, not a privilege.

My dad always told me the "can't" never did anything.

 

[DiamondDave]

The right to live your life as you see fit. Being able to keep for yourself the fruits of your labor. Not owing anyone anything by virtue of their birth or color of skin. Property rights in what you own, make or buy. Ask an immigrant from a communist country what benefit there is in being a citizen of America.

Commies just can't understand the difference between actual rights and privileges.

That, or they find it quite convenient to obfuscate between the two.

Then explain it to us. Because what I'm hearing from "conservatives" in this thread is that there are NO benefits to being an American citizen. None. Nothing more special than German citizens or French citizens.

So please, explain to us the "privileges" of being an American citizen.

Are you here, in all the opportunity available, or are you in Germany or Cuba or wherever else??? And you know what.. you also have the freedom to renounce this US citizenship and embrace the freedoms somewhere else and what they have in opportunity...

Privileges available in this society are many... and they all stem from the freedom you are afforded here

 

[SniperFire]

The right to live your life as you see fit. Being able to keep for yourself the fruits of your labor. Not owing anyone anything by virtue of their birth or color of skin. Property rights in what you own, make or buy. Ask an immigrant from a communist country what benefit there is in being a citizen of America.

Commies just can't understand the difference between actual rights and privileges.

That, or they find it quite convenient to obfuscate between the two.

Then explain it to us. Because what I'm hearing from "conservatives" in this thread is that there are NO benefits to being an American citizen. None. Nothing more special than German citizens or French citizens.

So please, explain to us the "privileges" of being an American citizen.

Privileges are granted by law. Rights supersede any laws granted by government.

If you don't even understand the most basic of such Constitutional concepts, why are you posting in this thread?

 

[Big Fitz]

SANTA MONICA, Calif. (AP) - Campus police pepper-sprayed as many as 30 demonstrators after Santa Monica College students angry over a plan to offer high-priced courses tried to push their way into a trustees meeting, authorities said.

Raw video posted on the Internet Tuesday evening showed students chanting "Let us in, let us in" and "No cuts, no fees, education should be free."
My Way News - Students angry over pricey courses pepper-sprayed


Shouldnt it though.....................Pre-school, education, food, medical care, housing, employment, and retirement too........these are basic human rights !!!

For the Public Good !!!!!!! lol

So apparently these students do not believe that:

-Teachers should be paid
-Books and materials should be bought
-Buildings should be bought and paid for when built
-maintenance should be paid
-utilities paid
-administrators paid and offices maintained

and a host of other education related expenses.

After all, how else is it going to be free?

 

[DiamondDave]

Explain 'free' education.

TIA

Paid for by someone else, naturally.

Leftists are greedy, always looking to pick the pocket of their neighbor to get what they want.

I have two degrees that I worked and paid for. I was fortunate. How is me wanting others who are not as fortunate to have the same opportunities I did, how does that make me greedy?

If you want it for others.. you have the freedom to set up a scholarship.. you have the freedom to give education benefits to employees that you might have as a business owner.... you have the freedom to give that fortune to someone else as payback or whatever other word you wish to use... but nobody is OWED it at your expense, the government's expense or whomever else's expense...

People are their own adults and have the freedom to use (or not to use) their own personal responsibility to provide for their own wants or needs.... and their outcome is WIDE OPEN to all the choices, efforts, abilities, etc that they muster

 

[Dragon]

My dad always told me the "can't" never did anything.

Find a building and try to walk through the wall. You will discover that the word does have a proper application.

 

[Dragon]

It is indeed a privilege.... the freedom is the right... whether you can do what it takes to become a metalurgical engineer or you do what you have to do to be a stripper.... you are not guaranteed outcome

Blah blah blah . . . I don't think you know what those words mean.

It's really a very simple thing, cut to the chase. How HARD do we want to make it to succeed? The harder it is, the fewer people will succeed; on the other hand, the harder it is, the bigger a reward goes to the few who do succeed.

The many, or the few. That's always what it's about. Everything else is just fig-leaves.

 

[Lovebears65]

Actually, if we expect people to get an education to prepare our work force, and if we make obtaining a good income contingent on having a good education, then education should be free. There's no getting around that.

And if the union professors would take a cut in pay the prices would not be so high. Most professors make over 100K and that is before benefits !

 

[Dragon]

It ain't free in Europe either.

The folks who pay taxes support that "free" shit.

Europeans pay high taxes and get education, public welfare, and first-quality health care and coverage.

Americans pay high taxes and get an imperial-grade military force that costs as much as all other nations' combined, along with inferior education, stingy public services, and a health-care system that's an international joke.

Europeans are better off.

 

[SniperFire]

It is indeed a privilege.... the freedom is the right... whether you can do what it takes to become a metalurgical engineer or you do what you have to do to be a stripper.... you are not guaranteed outcome

Blah blah blah . . . I don't think you know what those words mean.

Notice how 'dragon' puts his fingers in his ears to ignore the actually Constitutional argument that applies here.


LOL

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Europeans are better off.

Well, the option to move there is only available instead of trying to turn this country into Europe.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

If you are looking to become a social worker, state civil servant, community organizer or "rights" activist little education is required.....