Free Educations for All

[hortysir]

Actually, if we expect people to get an education to prepare our work force, and if we make obtaining a good income contingent on having a good education, then education should be free. There's no getting around that.

^^^^^^ The first Lib in line.

I sincerely hope that education helps, Dragon.

 

[Dragon]

Home school
Community center schools (we have them in Harlem and other neighborhoods already as communities take matters into their own hands)
Charter schools
Private schools

Community center schools and charter schools are still public schools. Private schools are unaffordable for children of poorer families. Home schooling depends on the ability of the parents to teach and is not a good solution for the majority of families.

If you want to say that public schools need some reform and have some problems, I won't argue. If you use this as a way to say that public schools should be abolished, I think that's insane.

 

[Dragon]

My comment was directed at Sniper, not you.

Sorry, my bad.

 

[Katzndogz]

Public schools should become more realistic and start sending the disinterested and unable elsewhere, like a trade school or apprenticeship program. If the student is stilll unable to peform to the lowest criteria, yes, they can pick vegetables.

 

[inALIENable]

Nobody needs college for half the things they offer degrees for. I.E. nobody needs to go to college for a computer science degree, you can learn all you need to know on the internet and in books. You may need a degree to get a job slaving for another, or you can benefit directly from your education by working for yourselves. Problem we have today is too many people want jobs, to become slaves, to work for others as employees, which diminishes the value of slaves and wages offered. Control your own fate and destiny, educate and hire yourself and you won't have to get caught up in all this entitlement mentality crap. I work about one day a week now and do rather well for myself, myself.

 

[Dragon]

No matter how much someone might demand that education is a right, it isn't.

Any statement in the form "X is a right" is a grammatical illusion, created by the fact the English language allows the construction of assertions as statements of fact even when no such statement of fact makes any sense.

Nothing "is" a right. A right is a freedom that we judge to be justified, anything that we believe should be available to all, rather than a privilege restricted to a few. The proper construction, then, is "X should be a right": -- not "is."

And so with respect to education, the question is not whether it "is" a right, but whether it should be one. Should education be available to everyone, or should it be a privilege restricted the children of the wealthy? If we choose the first option, then education becomes a right -- because we say so. If not, then it isn't a right -- because we say so.

Either way, there is no objective, factual way to say either that education is or is not a right. It is, or is not, depending on what we decide, end of story.

 

[DiamondDave]

Actually, if we expect people to get an education to prepare our work force, and if we make obtaining a good income contingent on having a good education, then education should be free. There's no getting around that.

In NO way, as an adult responsible for your own well being/advancement/etc, should you be OWED any 'free' education...

"There is no getting around that"

Idiot

Could it be a benefit for living in the, supposed, greatest country on the planet?

No... you simply are not OWED it as an adult... you want to further your education, you fucking pay for it... it is a personal choice or responsibility

 

[Katzndogz]

College is being dumbed down the same way high school was dumbed down. Make college free, and have "colleges" on every block the way there are high schools and college degrees will shortly be as worthless as high school diplomas. Pretty much the way it's going now.

 

[DiamondDave]

So lets give the ungrateful baffoons more of it?

ON AVERAGE, I said. Not ALL poor families.

Either education is provided at public expense, or it is a privilege of the children of the wealthy. It's quite simple, really. Do you think that, not merely success, but a CHANCE at success, should be reserved for the children of the well-off?

That's the outcome you're arguing for, whether you would approve or not.

By the way, some public schools -- maybe even most of them -- are excellent. The real failures are a minority.

What?? You cannot earn good grades and earn a scholarship for yourself?? You can't work a job and go to school at night?? You can't choose a job that has education reimbursement as a benefit? You can't choose to go to community college for the first 2 years at a cheaper price?? You can't do college over a few extra years doing 1 or 2 classes at a time?? You can't join the military for the GI Bill??

It is not a privilege for the 'wealthy'... it is a privilege for everyone.. and whether you decide to do what it takes or not, is up to you

 

[DontBeStupid]

In NO way, as an adult responsible for your own well being/advancement/etc, should you be OWED any 'free' education...

"There is no getting around that"

Idiot

Could it be a benefit for living in the, supposed, greatest country on the planet?

No... you simply are not OWED it as an adult... you want to further your education, you fucking pay for it... it is a personal choice or responsibility

No huh? So you think it can't even be a benefit of living in this country? Ok. I know you think that way about health care too. So let me ask you, not counting any "rights" we have, what are the benefits of being a citizen of America?

 

[DiamondDave]

Could it be a benefit for living in the, supposed, greatest country on the planet?

No... you simply are not OWED it as an adult... you want to further your education, you fucking pay for it... it is a personal choice or responsibility

No huh? So you think it can't even be a benefit of living in this country? Ok. I know you think that way about health care too. So let me ask you, not counting any "rights" we have, what are the benefits of being a citizen of America?

No.. I do not...

Well.. it is ALREADY a benefit (the opportunity to seek out an education for yourself as an adult)... you simply have to do what it takes to use the benefit... you don't get things given to you effortlessly as an adult...

The major benefit of being a US citizen is the guaranteeing of your rights (and no, a free education as an adult is not one of them) and the guaranteeing of your freedom to succeed or fail all on your own....

 

[Katzndogz]

Could it be a benefit for living in the, supposed, greatest country on the planet?

No... you simply are not OWED it as an adult... you want to further your education, you fucking pay for it... it is a personal choice or responsibility

No huh? So you think it can't even be a benefit of living in this country? Ok. I know you think that way about health care too. So let me ask you, not counting any "rights" we have, what are the benefits of being a citizen of America?

The right to live your life as you see fit. Being able to keep for yourself the fruits of your labor. Not owing anyone anything by virtue of their birth or color of skin. Property rights in what you own, make or buy. Ask an immigrant from a communist country what benefit there is in being a citizen of America.

 

[Dragon]

What?? You cannot earn good grades and earn a scholarship for yourself??

Everyone can't.

You can't work a job and go to school at night??

Everyone can't.

You can't choose a job that has education reimbursement as a benefit?

Everyone can't.

You can't choose to go to community college for the first 2 years at a cheaper price??

Everyone can't. And it's only a partial solution even for those who can.

You can't do college over a few extra years doing 1 or 2 classes at a time??

Everyone can't.

You can't join the military for the GI Bill??

Everyone can't.

It is not a privilege for the 'wealthy'... it is a privilege for everyone.

That's an oxymoron. Something that is reasonably and realistically available to everyone is a right, not a privilege.

 

[DiamondDave]

What?? You cannot earn good grades and earn a scholarship for yourself??

Everyone can't.

You can't work a job and go to school at night??

Everyone can't.



Everyone can't.



Everyone can't. And it's only a partial solution even for those who can.



Everyone can't.

You can't join the military for the GI Bill??

Everyone can't.

It is not a privilege for the 'wealthy'... it is a privilege for everyone.

That's an oxymoron. Something that is reasonably and realistically available to everyone is a right, not a privilege.

It is indeed a privilege.... the freedom is the right... whether you can do what it takes to become a metalurgical engineer or you do what you have to do to be a stripper.... you are not guaranteed outcome, nor are you guaranteed that your efforts, ability, choices, etc, lead you to your wants and dreams

You have choices to do what it takes to strive toward your goal... ones like you simply don't want or like the sacrifices it takes... nor do you like that you have the freedom to fail that goes hand in hand with the freedom to succeed

 

[DontBeStupid]

No... you simply are not OWED it as an adult... you want to further your education, you fucking pay for it... it is a personal choice or responsibility

No huh? So you think it can't even be a benefit of living in this country? Ok. I know you think that way about health care too. So let me ask you, not counting any "rights" we have, what are the benefits of being a citizen of America?

No.. I do not...

Well.. it is ALREADY a benefit (the opportunity to seek out an education for yourself as an adult)... you simply have to do what it takes to use the benefit... you don't get things given to you effortlessly as an adult...

The major benefit of being a US citizen is the guaranteeing of your rights (and no, a free education as an adult is not one of them) and the guaranteeing of your freedom to succeed or fail all on your own....

So ... there is no difference between being an American citizen or French citizen or German citizen? Because everything you just talked about is not unique to America. And this is my point. If we're the greatest country on the planet, and we want people to come here legally and become citizens legally, what benefit do they/we get for that? You think it should be absolutely nothing.

Oh, and if you think getting a 4-year degree is "effortless", then why does less than 30% of the population have one?

 

[Claudette]

No, the federal govt. got in the business of giving out anyone who wants one a loan to go to college. That program is now in the process of bursting the bubble created by such a lousy program. It's also the reason costs to go to college have run through the roof over the last 15-20 years.

I really do not see how much more "free" you want to make it. But I'll tell you, it isn't going to work the way you like. Public schools are failing because the system is uncompetitive, to put it real simply. The puvblic schools in my city are atrocious. Making charter and private schools much more appealing. Another example of how social programs fail miserably. All of them.

You bet.

Anyone who thinks anything is free is an idiot.

Someone else is providing the money for all that "free" shit.

As for public ed I again agree.

Charter and private shools are the way to go. Competition brings out the best schools and teachers. If they have to compete for students then you can bet they will be the best you can get.

Again. Nothing is free. Someone else will be paying for it.

 

[hortysir]

What?? You cannot earn good grades and earn a scholarship for yourself??

Everyone can't.

You can't work a job and go to school at night??

Everyone can't.



Everyone can't.



Everyone can't. And it's only a partial solution even for those who can.



Everyone can't.

You can't join the military for the GI Bill??

Everyone can't.

It is not a privilege for the 'wealthy'... it is a privilege for everyone.

That's an oxymoron. Something that is reasonably and realistically available to everyone is a right, not a privilege.

Then everyone doesn't deserve a college education.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Explain 'free' education.

TIA

Paid for by someone else, naturally.

Leftists are greedy, always looking to pick the pocket of their neighbor to get what they want.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Please quote the specific articles in the Bill of Rights that states any of these "Pre-school, education, food, medical care, housing, employment, and retirement" are protected rights.


Fact is dumbass, you have the right to be homeless, unhealthy and uneducated.....which apparently you have taken full advantage of the latter.

Yeah...

I think there may have been a hint of sarcasm in the opening post...

 

[dblack]

Something that is reasonably and realistically available to everyone is a right, not a privilege.

Availability has nothing to do with rights. Because rights aren't goods and services, they're freedoms. And the status of a freedom has nothing with whether you are empowered to exercise it. This is what I was identifying earlier as the principal assumption behind the idea that education is a right (and the idea that healthcare is a right, or most of the other caretaker state campaigns).