France Says Gaddafi Can Stay

[LAfrique]

France just stated Muammar Gaddafi can remain in Libya, as if Gaddafi or anyone needs the consent of France to stay in his/her homeland. I guess to some this is supposed to be something - France says Gaddafi could stay in Libya - Africa - Al Jazeera English

I think France, a part of NATO decomposed by Gaddafi, is suddenly looking for ways to keep up appearance. Remember that months ago, Muammar Gaddafi unapologetically informed the world he will not abandon his homeland - Libya's Gaddafi says will not leave his country | Reuters


Bluffing, we are France. I guess some folks just do not know when and who to pick a fight with.

 

[waltky]

Should I stay or should I go now...

Qaddafi could possibly stay in Libya, France says
Fri, Jul 22, 2011 - France’s foreign minister suggested on Wednesday that a possible way out of Libya’s civil war would be to allow Muammar Qaddafi to stay in the country if he relinquishes power.

Qaddafi insists he will neither step down nor flee the country he has led for four decades. With the NATO-led air campaign against Qaddafi’s forces entering its fifth month and the fighting in a stalemate, the international community is seeking exit strategies. French President Nicolas Sarkozy met in Paris on Wednesday with three rebel leaders from the western port city of Misrata who are seeking aid and arms to move toward Tripoli. Sarkozy announced no specific measures in response. French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said France wants to keep “a very close link” with the rebels “to see how we can help.” Asked whether Qaddafi could stay in Libya under house arrest, for example, Juppe said on LCI TV on Wednesday: “One of the hypotheses that is envisaged is that he stays in Libya, on one condition ... that he clearly steps aside from Libya’s political life. This is what we are waiting for before launching a political process.”

The rebels initially insisted that Qaddafi leave the country, and one of those who met on Wednesday with Sarkozy maintained that view — while others are not ruling out the possibility that he could stay in Libya if he gives up power. “I don’t think there is a place for him [in Libya]. He is a criminal now,” Souleiman Fortia, the National Transitional Council’s Misrata representative, told reporters after the meeting with the French president. Misrata rebel military leaders Ramadan Zarmouh and Ahmed Hachem also met with Sarkozy. Rebels and pro-Qaddafi forces have been locked in a stalemate, with the rebels unable to advance beyond pockets in the west despite a NATO air campaign against Qaddafi’s forces. Rebels hold most of the east, but have proven unable over the last week to wrest the strategic oil town of Brega from Qaddafi’s forces.

Mohammed Idris, a doctor at the hospital in the nearby town of Ajdabiya, said 27 rebels were killed and 83 others were wounded on Tuesday in fighting for Brega. That raised the six-day death toll to 60, according to Idris. Rebel military spokesman Ahmed Zleitini said on Wednesday that rebel forces had pulled back from Brega, but still had the city surrounded in hopes that Qaddafi’s forces in the city would surrender “to avoid bloodshed.” Fortia, the rebel representative meeting with French leaders, said Misrata, where rebel forces pushed government troops out of the city center, is “the key” to taking Tripoli and “tightening the noose around this dictator and his lackeys.”

“With a little help from some friends, we will be in Tripoli very soon ... a matter of days,” he said during a news conference. The plan is to move toward Tripoli from Zlitan west of Misrata and then Al-Khums in a step-by-step advance, members of the delegation said. “Their message was the following: what we did to liberate our city, we can do it to move forward toward Tripoli,” said French philosopher Bernard Henri-Levy, who helped organize the meeting and has championed the Libyan rebel cause.

Qaddafi could possibly stay in Libya, France says - Taipei Times

See also:

Qaddafi could step down and stay? That's not going to happen.
July 21, 2011 - France's foreign minister says Muammar Qaddafi could remain in Libya after he leaves power. But that's the least likely of all possible outcomes.

Growing efforts to find a negotiated settlement to Libya's civil war got a boost of attention Wednesday, when French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said that Muammar Qaddafi could stay indefinitely in his home country as long as he steps down from power. "One of the scenarios effectively envisaged is that he stays in Libya on one condition ... that he very clearly steps aside from Libyan political life," Mr. Juppe told French LCI TV. "A cease-fire depends on Qaddafi committing clearly and formally to surrender his military and civilian roles."

Qaddafi and his powerful son Saif al-Islam have insisted they won't leave the country under any circumstances, so Juppe's comments would appear to be reaching for an acceptable compromise conclusion to an increasingly bloody war (a rebel offensive on the tiny eastern oil town of Brega, for instance, has been stalled for days, with dozens of casualties on both sides). The problem is, of all the outcomes one could imagine in Libya, Qaddafi relinquishing power and living out his days as a free man in Tripoli is the least likely.

The reason why has to do with the depth of hatred for the man among the rebels. There are no similarities between the case of Qaddafi and Hosni Mubarak in Egypt, for instance. While corruption flourished under Mubarak and torture was routinely used, executions weren't carried out on the industrial scale of Qaddafi's Libya.

While many young Egyptian protesters would like Mr. Mubarak put on trial, he also has a fair degree of sympathy from the Egyptian public – and the protection of the officer corps, whose military institution is intact and in control. Though there's some momentum for a trial, it's looking like Mubarak will successfully push it off with claims of ill health. That will disappoint many Egyptians and infuriate some, but Mubarak living out his days in Sharm el-Sheikh is something that Egypt by and large is willing to accept.

MORE

 

[CitizenPained]

Ah, well, Obama lost that round.

 

[hortysir]

What's the difference between France saying he can stay and the US saying he has to go???

 

[Zander]

For sale on E-bay. A French army rife. Never fired and only dropped once.

 

[Truthseeker420]

For sale on E-bay. A French army rife. Never fired and only dropped once.

Really? If it wasn't for them there would be no USA.

 

[hortysir]

For sale on E-bay. A French army rife. Never fired and only dropped once.

Really? If it wasn't for them there would be no USA.

And we've repaid that favor

 

[Ragnar]

For sale on E-bay. A French army rife. Never fired and only dropped once.

Really? If it wasn't for them there would be no USA.

And look what the French did to the government that helped us.

 

[Truthseeker420]

For sale on E-bay. A French army rife. Never fired and only dropped once.

Really? If it wasn't for them there would be no USA.

And look what the French did to the government that helped us.

What do you mean?

 

[CitizenPained]

Really? If it wasn't for them there would be no USA.

And look what the French did to the government that helped us.

What do you mean?

Ever heard of this couple?

 

[Ragnar]

Really? If it wasn't for them there would be no USA.

And look what the French did to the government that helped us.

What do you mean?

Révolution Française

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Really? If it wasn't for them there would be no USA.

And look what the French did to the government that helped us.

What do you mean?

A little History, since I doubt the hints already given will help you.

The King of France aided us. And the people of France murdered him his wife and thousands of others.

 

[Trajan]

well, that opens the door to what exactly? what do the rebels say? does sarkozy care? its an admission that they don't see an end game they can win short of assassinating him.

this whole thing was one big folly.

 

[LAfrique]

Well, that opens the door to what exactly? What do the rebels say? Does sarkozy care? It's an admission that they don't see an end game they can win short of assassinating him.

This whole thing was one big folly.

The entire 2011 assault on Gaddafi and Libya is absurd. You are right that France is admitting the folly of our neighborhood bully NATO boys in this case. I guess they had simply assumed we are all defenseless cowards and Gaddafi, like Tommy in Kenny Rogers' The Coward of the County," proved the neighborhood bully NATO Gatlin boys wrong.


(Whistling) "Everyone considered him the coward of the county."

 

[waltky]

Ya know Gadhafi's regime is done fer now...

Libya starts to reconnect to internet
22 August 2011 - Some Twitter activity seemed to be coming out of Tripoli

Libya's internet connections appear to be slowly coming back online after a six-month blackout. The state-run internet service provider (ISP) carried a message on its website that said: "Libya, one tribe". However, local people have reported patchy reliability with connections coming and going. Internet traffic in Libya dropped to almost nothing in early March when Colonel Gaddafi's government pulled the plug in an attempt to suppress dissent.

With Tripoli under siege, and the rebels reportedly gaining the upper hand, the authorities' stranglehold on net connections appeared to be loosening. Both Google's web analytics and Akamai's net monitoring service showed a spike in traffic coming from the country early on 22 August. Akamai's director of market intelligence, David Belson, said that internet activity had increased almost 500%, although it had declined again later in the day.

Writing on the blog of internet intelligence firm Renesys, chief technology officer James Cowie said that Libya's Border Gateway Protocol (BGP) routing appeared to have been taken down briefly, effectively making the country's internal networks disappear from the internet. The BGPs were later restored, although local ADSL broadband connections then became unavailable, wrote Mr Cowie.

Web monitoring companies conceded that it was difficult to know exactly what was going on inside the country to make the internet connections sporadically available. However, it appeared that Libyans were making use of their newly restored connectivity - when available - to chronicle fast-moving events inside the country. Groups such as the Libya Youth Movement posted Twitter messages giving regular updates on attempts to capture Colonel Gaddafi's compound.

BBC News - Libya starts to reconnect to internet

See also:

Analysis: Why Gaddafi's crack troops melted away
22 August 2011 - Rebel troops are securing the Libyan capital, Tripoli, street by street

When one Libyan opposition activist reflected on the rebel advances into the city of Zawiya last week, he mused that "Eid could be a massive celebration indeed". He was wrong - the jubilation came much earlier. As Tripoli was surrounded from three sides - east, south and west - government forces precipitously collapsed. What at first might have been mistaken for a tactical withdrawal into urban areas, emerged more clearly as the disintegration of the government's most feared fighting units.

The vaunted Khamis Brigade - commanded by a son of Col Gaddafi - saw its barracks raided with impunity. Rebel convoys punched deep into Tripoli, meeting virtually no resistance. Why did battle-hardened Libyan soldiers, fed on a diet of anti-rebel propaganda and willing to fight in the face of overwhelming Nato air power, melt away so suddenly?

The answer can only be speculative at this stage, but there are a few possibilities. First, there was an element of retreat rather than a rout. Tripoli is unevenly pacified and the euphoria of Green Square obscures the continuing fighting in several suburbs. Western parts of the city are being progressively secured but enduring sniper fire shows that loyalists still remain willing to risk their lives for a crumbling regime.

Underground groups

 

[waltky]

Looks like Obama's stratergy was the right one...

News analysis: Libya endgame may vindicate Obama's strategy
WASHINGTON — President Obama was in Brazil five months ago when he sent U.S. troops into a third war zone in Libya. Today, he's in Martha's Vineyard as that effort approaches its end.

His distance from the corridors of power could serve as a metaphor for his Libya policy: not too far away to be involved, but not directing the action. From the day in March when Obama announced a series of airstrikes against Moammar Gadhafi's forces to establish a no-fly zone, his strategy has been to set the table for NATO and European allies, and then provide refueling, intelligence and surveillance rather than bombing missions.

As a result, the administration can claim that its limited participation in the NATO-led effort is paying off. No Americans have perished in the 5-month-old military action. Gadhafi, as long desired by the White House, appears to be on the way out. And the United States does not own the aftermath. "In the early days of this intervention, the United States provided the bulk of the firepower, and then our friends and allies stepped forward," Obama said from his vacation compound Monday. "All of this was done without putting a single U.S. troop on the ground."

Some Republicans in Congress and experts on the region question why it took so long, cost the United States nearly $1 billion and resulted in the deaths of so many Libyans to bring down one strongman. They note he had NATO, the European Union, Arab League, United Nations and others arrayed against him. "Americans can be proud of the role our country has played in helping to defeat Gadhafi, but we regret that this success was so long in coming, due to the failure of the United States to employ the full weight of our air power," said Republican Sens. John McCain and Lindsey Graham, who argued for a more full-throated U.S. effort.

Obama, already saddled with wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that he inherited from a Republican administration, had no stomach for a third full-fledged war. By late spring, when it appeared Gadhafi was battling NATO forces to a stalemate, Obama preached patience. "We understand the limits of what the military alone can achieve," he said in May during a trip to Great Britain. "Ultimately, this is going to be a slow, steady process."

MORE

 

[GHook93]

Really? If it wasn't for them there would be no USA.

And look what the French did to the government that helped us.

What do you mean?

Get an education you pot smoking dumbass! Shortly after the American Revolution, the French Revolution occurred and the French executed the monarchy!

 

[LAfrique]

GHook93, there are several "pot smoking dumbass" here: Like robots, they simply parrot whatever they have been programmed to parrot, regardless of facts. Propagandists they surely are, and historical facts and reality mean nothing to them.

 

[waltky]

Take the kids an' go to yer mother's...

Gadhafi's wife, 3 children flee to Algeria
Aug 29,`11 - Moammar Gadhafi's wife and three of his children fled Libya to neighboring Algeria on Monday, firm evidence that the longtime leader has lost his grip on the country.

Gadhafi's whereabouts were still unknown and rebels are worried that if he remains in Libya, it will stoke more violence. In Washington, the Obama administration said it has no indication Gadhafi has left the country. Rebels also said one of Gadhafi's other sons, elite military commander Khamis, was probably killed in battle. The Algerian Foreign Ministry said in a statement that Gadhafi's wife Safia, his sons Hannibal and Mohammed, and his daughter Aisha entered the country across the land border. It said Algerian authorities have informed the United Nations Secretary General, the president of the U.N. Security Council, and the head of the Libyan rebels transitional leadership council. Ahmed Jibril, an aide to rebel National Transitional Council head Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, said officials would "demand that Algerian authorities hand them over to Libya to be tried before Libyan courts."

Gadhafi's children played important roles in Libya's military and economic life. Hannibal headed the maritime transport company; Mohammed the national Olympic committee. Aisha, a lawyer, helped in the defense of toppled Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein in the trial that led to his hanging. Ahmed Bani, military spokesman of the council, said he was not surprised to hear Algeria welcomed Gadhafi's relatives. Throughout the six-month Libyan uprising, rebels have accused Algeria of providing Gadhafi with mercenaries to repress the revolt. Over the weekend, the Egyptian news agency MENA, quoting unidentified rebel fighters, reported that six armored Mercedes sedans, possibly carrying Gadhafi's sons or other top regime figures, had crossed the border at the southwestern Libyan town of Ghadamis into Algeria. Algeria's Foreign Ministry had denied that report.

Bani said Monday that rebel forces may have killed Khamis Gadhafi in a clash Saturday. Rebel clashed with a military convoy near the town of Tarhouna, 50 miles (80 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, destroying two vehicles in the convoy. The bodies in the cars were burned beyond recognition, he said, but captured soldiers said they were Khamis Gadhafi's bodyguards. "We are sure he is dead," Col. Boujela Issawi, the rebel commander of Tarhouna, told AP. But then he cast some doubt, saying it was possible Gadhafi's son was pulled alive from the car and taken to Bani Walid, a contested interior area. Col. Abdullah Hussein, a former pilot in the Libyan airforce who is part of the rebels' command center in Tarhouna, said that "we heard from Bani Walid that he (Khamis) died in the hospital there."

Asked how they knew this, since Bani Walid is still under regime control, he said: "We have some people there." It was possible this was psychological warfare. The rebels claimed to have captured Gadhafi's son Seif al-Islam, a key figure, only to have him turn up the next day and talk to reporters. Rebel leaders have started to set up a new government in the capital Tripoli after their fighters drove Gadhafi's defenders out over the past week. Gadhafi's whereabouts are still unknown, however, and people close to him have claimed he is still in the country and leading a fight to hold onto power. "Gadhafi is still capable of doing something awful in the last moments," rebel leader Abdul-Jalil told NATO officials earlier Monday in Qatar.

MORE

 

[LAfrique]

Take the kids an' go to yer mother's...

Gadhafi's wife, 3 children flee to Algeria
Aug 29,`11 - Moammar Gadhafi's wife and three of his children fled Libya to neighboring Algeria on Monday, firm evidence that the longtime leader has lost his grip on the country.

Gadhafi's whereabouts were still unknown and rebels are worried that if he remains in Libya, it will stoke more violence. In Washington, the Obama administration said it has no indication Gadhafi has left the country. Rebels also said one of Gadhafi's other sons, elite military commander Khamis, was probably killed in battle. The Algerian Foreign Ministry said in a statement that Gadhafi's wife Safia, his sons Hannibal and Mohammed, and his daughter Aisha entered the country across the land border. It said Algerian authorities have informed the United Nations Secretary General, the president of the U.N. Security Council, and the head of the Libyan rebels transitional leadership council. Ahmed Jibril, an aide to rebel National Transitional Council head Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, said officials would "demand that Algerian authorities hand them over to Libya to be tried before Libyan courts."

Gadhafi's children played important roles in Libya's military and economic life. Hannibal headed the maritime transport company; Mohammed the national Olympic committee. Aisha, a lawyer, helped in the defense of toppled Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein in the trial that led to his hanging. Ahmed Bani, military spokesman of the council, said he was not surprised to hear Algeria welcomed Gadhafi's relatives. Throughout the six-month Libyan uprising, rebels have accused Algeria of providing Gadhafi with mercenaries to repress the revolt. Over the weekend, the Egyptian news agency MENA, quoting unidentified rebel fighters, reported that six armored Mercedes sedans, possibly carrying Gadhafi's sons or other top regime figures, had crossed the border at the southwestern Libyan town of Ghadamis into Algeria. Algeria's Foreign Ministry had denied that report.

Bani said Monday that rebel forces may have killed Khamis Gadhafi in a clash Saturday. Rebel clashed with a military convoy near the town of Tarhouna, 50 miles (80 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, destroying two vehicles in the convoy. The bodies in the cars were burned beyond recognition, he said, but captured soldiers said they were Khamis Gadhafi's bodyguards. "We are sure he is dead," Col. Boujela Issawi, the rebel commander of Tarhouna, told AP. But then he cast some doubt, saying it was possible Gadhafi's son was pulled alive from the car and taken to Bani Walid, a contested interior area. Col. Abdullah Hussein, a former pilot in the Libyan airforce who is part of the rebels' command center in Tarhouna, said that "we heard from Bani Walid that he (Khamis) died in the hospital there."

Asked how they knew this, since Bani Walid is still under regime control, he said: "We have some people there." It was possible this was psychological warfare. The rebels claimed to have captured Gadhafi's son Seif al-Islam, a key figure, only to have him turn up the next day and talk to reporters. Rebel leaders have started to set up a new government in the capital Tripoli after their fighters drove Gadhafi's defenders out over the past week. Gadhafi's whereabouts are still unknown, however, and people close to him have claimed he is still in the country and leading a fight to hold onto power. "Gadhafi is still capable of doing something awful in the last moments," rebel leader Abdul-Jalil told NATO officials earlier Monday in Qatar.

MORE

Well, I wish them safety. I never hold child or wife or brother or cousin or any other responsible for sins of another.