France, Now Officially A Socialist State

bitterlyclingin

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Aug 4, 2011
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The French have historically been quite in tune with reality, politically and militarily. When it came time in the 30's to fund the remainder of the Maginot Line in front of the Ardennes, the French body politic argued that 'Les Bosch" could simply never make their way through such an entanglement of vegetation and the money would be better spent providing wine to the winos in exchange for their votes. When the Germans finally made their move in Poland and the French Army Reserves were called up, the Government noticed that the wine harvest would not occur due to the lack of manpower, so the Army reserves were put to work harvesting grapes instead of preparing for a German assault. When the German assault finally came, it was mostly over and done with in seven days, but all was not lost, the French still had their wine. These ladies in the photo at the link all look like they're prepared to host DSK or maybe even his successor, Mssr Hollande. Just gotta love them Socialists. 75 per cent income taxes and no balanced budget for five years.

Weasel Zippers » Blog Archive » France Now Officially a Socialist State, Sweeping Election Victory Gives Them Absolute Majority In Parliament Along With Presidency…

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and the French were beat by German socialsts, the French at that time had a republic.
So we see what political party beat whom.
 
Will be interesting to sit back and see how long it takes France to implode.

Taxing the rich and business will only get you so far.

Of course the French citizens just love that nannyism so they voted the Socialist back into power.

Good luck to em. They are gonna need it.
 
France, Now Officially A Socialist State

and the United States of America not to far behind:

A Look at the Communist Manifesto


Here are the 10 measures the proletariat will use to bring about the full realization of the communist utopian dream, once they have the political power:

Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

.
 
Nazis aren't socialists, morons-were you born yesterday with this brand new "absolute drivel" installed?France was socialist 1936 and on, and wine had nothing to do with it- they're not drunk Americans...

Take a pill and relax, cold war dinosaurs. Their effective tax on the wealthy will be much less, and the EU needs more growth policies. AS do we, Pub dupes. Thanks for the depression and obstructing the recovery. GTH.tyvm
 
the french attempts at republics has been dismal without Charles DeGulle, any form of government can succeed if you can run it right. One of the shortest lived political groups was religious eutopian communes during the 1800's in the USA
 
Nazis aren't socialists, morons-were you born yesterday with this brand new "absolute drivel" installed?France was socialist 1936 and on, and wine had nothing to do with it- they're not drunk Americans...

Take a pill and relax, cold war dinosaurs. Their effective tax on the wealthy will be much less, and the EU needs more growth policies. AS do we, Pub dupes. Thanks for the depression and obstructing the recovery. GTH.tyvm

well they are repubs, so they think that naxies were socialists, just like thay think Stalin was a real communist. So I was defeating their said mistatement with my own to beat their premis
 
Check yourself for brainwashed gloom and doom, chumps for the greedy, incompetent rich who got us in this mess. Pub dupes-stupidest, most hateful voters in the world...
 
Claiming true Fascism, not Hitleresque Nazism, is not a socialist type of government is like claiming slavery had nothing to do with the American Civil War. Fascism is a nationalistic form of Socialism with strict government controls over a nation's economy, labor and businesses.
The problem is most people associate Nazism with Fascism simply because the Germans themselves called it such, in fact it wasn't. Roehm, who was the leader of the SA was a true Fascist which is one of the reasons he was killed, he was stridently calling for strong socialistic controls over Germany's industry, the same industry that helped Hitler get into the Reichstag. That was the day Nazism won out over Fascism.
 
Claiming true Fascism, not Hitleresque Nazism, is not a socialist type of government is like claiming slavery had nothing to do with the American Civil War. Fascism is a nationalistic form of Socialism with strict government controls over a nation's economy, labor and businesses.

Not at all - both Fascism and Nazism are extreme right wing forms of government - based on the flow of capital and the role of class. Nazism, in particular, was a movement driven by the middle and upper classes, and which sought to enrich them through dividends and stock ownership.

It's worth remembering that the best chart we have of political beliefs is the horseshoe - in which both extremes are closer to each other than they are to the centre.

Both Nazism and Communism are totaliratian in nature - but that doesn't mean they are both the same.

I recommend Michael Marris and Kershaw's 'The Nazi Dictatorship' on these questions of fascist theory.

Also, there is no conflict between 'Nazism' and 'Fascism'. The former is a manifestation of the latter, although there are theorists who say that Nazism does not deserve its own mantle, as it had no fixed ideology apart from whatever happened to flit through Hitler's fevered brain. Most historians consider Franco's Spain and Antonescu's Romania to be Fascist rather than Nazi, but it would be a brave man who would try to explain quite why Antonescu was not a Nazi.
 
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Claiming true Fascism, not Hitleresque Nazism, is not a socialist type of government is like claiming slavery had nothing to do with the American Civil War. Fascism is a nationalistic form of Socialism with strict government controls over a nation's economy, labor and businesses.

Not at all - both Fascism and Nazism are extreme right wing forms of government - based on the flow of capital and the role of class. Nazism, in particular, was a movement driven by the middle and upper classes, and which sought to enrich them through dividends and stock ownership.

It's worth remembering that the best chart we have of political beliefs is the horseshoe - in which both extremes are closer to each other than they are to the centre.

Both Nazism and Communism are totaliratian in nature - but that doesn't mean they are both the same.

I recommend Michael Marris and Kershaw's 'The Nazi Dictatorship' on these questions of fascist theory.

Also, there is no conflict between 'Nazism' and 'Fascism'. The former is a manifestation of the latter, although there are theorists who say that Nazism does not deserve its own mantle, as it had no fixed ideology apart from whatever happened to flit through Hitler's fevered brain. Most historians consider Franco's Spain and Antonescu's Romania to be Fascist rather than Nazi, but it would be a brave man who would try to explain quite why Antonescu was not a Nazi.

Ah, the 1970s and 80s revisionist movement. I go with the proven authorities on thiese issues, people who the understand classical definitions, not the revised ones:

The Common definition of fascism: "A governmental system with strong centralized power, permitting no opposition or criticism, controlling all affairs of the nation (industrial, commercial, etc.)" (American College Dictionary, New York: Random House, 1957).

The current Merriam-Webster:

Definition of FASCISM
A political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
LUSO: Socialism and Fascism

Fascism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Socialism is a form of Statism to one degree or another, again Merriam-Webster:

Definition of STATISM
Concentration of economic controls and planning in the hands of a highly centralized government often extending to government ownership of industry.

Statism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Pure socialism means complete state ownership, control of all economic resources, Fascism allows individual ownership in name but can exercise complete control over said property at any time it wants in any way it wants, essentially no real difference. Not all socialist entities are peace loving regimes, many have been quite war like and nationalistic when it suited them, a so called right wing attribute. Simply stated the term "socialism" encompasses a very broad range of ideological, political and economic realities just as right wing, left wing is in all reality subjective. A full blown communist would potentially see a social democrat as far right wing in their own microcosm as an ardent capitalist might view the same social democrat as extreme left wing form their own personal paradigm.
 
Ringel -

Anyway you cut it, Fascism is still a right wing movement, and no dictionary will ever say otherwise.

Fascism: authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices: this is yet another example of health fascism in action

The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43); the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also Fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.

Definition for fascism - Oxford Dictionaries Online (World English)

As I mentioned earlier, extreme right wing and extreme left wing movements share a lot of similiarities, but that does not, and could not mean that they are the same thing. They are simply inversions of the other.


btw, This has nothing to do with revisionism. Fascism was defined as being a right wing movement at least as far back as the 1930s, and possibly earlier.
 
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What is "official" and what is "socialist"?

And what has changed? Looking at France and the current social ambiance, little is different. People are a bit more relaxed, a bit relieved at getting rid of an often obnoxious little man. François is easy to accept, truly French.

Socialist in France is not what Americans think when they hear and use the word. We could call it a faux amis. The UMP (the party of Sarkozy) and PS are not much more than center-right vs center-left. Neither are in any way extremist (except in the eyes of their opponents, of course).

The French have always been very inventive, sophisticated and organized. They have top-level tech. It is very possible they will survive the present 'crisis' quite well. It was certainly not of their making (nor was WWII for everyone who seems to want to 'go there'). At the same time, world-wide failure may bring France down, too.

In general, the US should admire, respect and learn from their longest-running European ally. France, in turn, could learn from their American cousins as well. There is much to exchange. Just calling France 'socialist' as a dismissive is a shame and a waste.
 
Ringel -

Anyway you cut it, Fascism is still a right wing movement, and no dictionary will ever say otherwise.

Fascism: authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices: this is yet another example of health fascism in action

The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43); the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also Fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.

Definition for fascism - Oxford Dictionaries Online (World English)

As I mentioned earlier, extreme right wing and extreme left wing movements share a lot of similiarities, but that does not, and could not mean that they are the same thing. They are simply inversions of the other.


btw, This has nothing to do with revisionism. Fascism was defined as being a right wing movement at least as far back as the 1930s, and possibly earlier.

Never said it wasn't right wing, simply pointed out that left and right can be a matter of perspective and that not all "socialisms" are truly left wing except in the very narrow context. That narrow context was applied for justification reasons during the revisionist period to give credence to specific beliefs and ideals that had come out of the 60s and 70s and to disassociate any and all elements of fascist socialistic make up while applying the less savory aspects to the far right in this country. It's the politics of ideas.
Yes while there are a lot of differences there are many similarities as they both derive from the same ideological parent, Statism.
Again, do not confuse Nazism with real fascism. Would you associate Stalinism or Maoism with true communism? The current American capitalism with real capitalism? I would hope not.
 
I'm not sure there has ever been a "real" capitalism or a "real" communism...even less so a "real" fascism.

Real exists in theory, but rarely passes into reality. I'm not even sure what a "real" communist state might look like...possibly more like kibbutz than the USSR, anyway.

Nazism is a form of Fascism, a variation on it, but I agree that it is markedly different from the (Italian) origins of Fascism.
 
I'm not sure there has ever been a "real" capitalism or a "real" communism...even less so a "real" fascism.

Real exists in theory, but rarely passes into reality. I'm not even sure what a "real" communist state might look like...possibly more like kibbutz than the USSR, anyway.

Nazism is a form of Fascism, a variation on it, but I agree that it is markedly different from the (Italian) origins of Fascism.

No man made constructs fit the theoretical models, never have, never will, but it doesn't change the fact that, based on the model, and in most cases the actuality, fascism is the far right's version of socialism.
 

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