France banned all rifles...130 dead in attack on Rock Concert, here...58 killed

[Tilly]

To compare two approaches to gun control.....

France banned all rifles....military rifles are banned, as are self defense rifles with magazines, the semi auto rifles we have here....

At their concert attack...130 were killed...

November 2015 Paris attacks - Wikipedia

Here....58......

I know this doesn't fit your argument, but it wasn't a lone attacker in France.

Oh shit...Lewdog deflecting again.

Not a deflection. You can't compare the two incidents. One had 7-8 attackers, the other had a lone gunman.

So more 'people' managed to go on the rampage with weapons even though they were banned.
How does this help your 'case'?

First off, the weapons in the France incident were purchased in Belgium. They were able to cross country borders without a visa per the Schengen Agreement.

The OP tried to make the assertion that less people died in the U.S. because we can in fact buy rifles legally here. That's not true because the attacker wasn't stopped by a citizen who had legally purchased a rifle.

The point is criminals can and do get weapons even where they are banned.
BTW Guns are very strictly controlled in Belgium, are available only by permit, and are allowed only in certain types. Civilians are not allowed to possess military weapons, automatic firearms or their ammunition, concealable firearms, silencers, laser sights, or high capacity cartridges.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Guns and the banning of them is the argument. What does the number of perpetrators in an incident have to do with France banning guns? If anything it proves they are even MORE readily available. You're like trying to walk a drunk through a doorway.

Do you have problems with logic? The two incidents are not alike, therefor they can't be compared.

France was worse and demonstrated that gun bans do not work....

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Was the Las Vegas shooter stopped by an armed citizen?

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal.

that yet remains to be seen

Your argument doesn't hold water.

that strengthens his position not yours

We do know that. It's not legal to have fully automatic rifles unless you have them registered with the ATF and are given permission to do so.

We do know that.

you dont know shit Sherlock


i do not believe it was "fully automatic" by the sound it was either a bump fire or more likely a binary trigger

not that i would expect a leftard to know the difference

 

[Lewdog]

I know this doesn't fit your argument, but it wasn't a lone attacker in France.

Oh shit...Lewdog deflecting again.

Not a deflection. You can't compare the two incidents. One had 7-8 attackers, the other had a lone gunman.

So more 'people' managed to go on the rampage with weapons even though they were banned.
How does this help your 'case'?

First off, the weapons in the France incident were purchased in Belgium. They were able to cross country borders without a visa per the Schengen Agreement.

The OP tried to make the assertion that less people died in the U.S. because we can in fact buy rifles legally here. That's not true because the attacker wasn't stopped by a citizen who had legally purchased a rifle.

So following your logic train if an attacker is not stopped by an armed citizen the right to carry is moot?

HE IS USING THIS EVENT AS THE REASON FOR HIS ARGUMENT!

If he is going to use this event as his argument, then there needs to be a correlation between the two. There isn't.

You won't answer my question...

What does being legal allowed to buy rifles in the U.S. have to do with the amount of casualties not being higher in Vegas?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Oh shit...Lewdog deflecting again.

Not a deflection. You can't compare the two incidents. One had 7-8 attackers, the other had a lone gunman.

Guns and the banning of them is the argument. What does the number of perpetrators in an incident have to do with France banning guns? If anything it proves they are even MORE readily available. You're like trying to walk a drunk through a doorway.

Do you have problems with logic? The two incidents are not alike, therefor they can't be compared.

France was worse and demonstrated that gun bans do not work....

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Was the Las Vegas shooter stopped by an armed citizen?

Please cite the reference that tells you that the Las Vegas shooter's guns were illegal?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Not a deflection. You can't compare the two incidents. One had 7-8 attackers, the other had a lone gunman.

Guns and the banning of them is the argument. What does the number of perpetrators in an incident have to do with France banning guns? If anything it proves they are even MORE readily available. You're like trying to walk a drunk through a doorway.

Do you have problems with logic? The two incidents are not alike, therefor they can't be compared.

France was worse and demonstrated that gun bans do not work....

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Was the Las Vegas shooter stopped by an armed citizen?

Please cite the reference that tells you that the Las Vegas shooter's guns were illegal?

exactly

 

[BlackSand]

What's an assault rifle?

According to President Clinton's Assault Weapons Ban ... It was classified as an assault weapon and illegal to purchase with more than one of these items on it:

Folding Stock
Pistol Grip
Flash Suppressor
Grenade Launcher

It's not an assault weapon if you have a grenade launcher ... As long as you don't have a folding stock, pistol grip or flash suppressor when you buy it.
Not to mention ... You could order a flash suppressor, pistol grip or folding stock and make after market adjustments.

And people wonder why President Clinton's Assault Weapons Ban was allowed to expire ... It was totally useless ...
It was just meant to appear to be something of substance ... And ultimately failed at doing anything more than doubling the number of people who legally own an assault weapon ... Assault weapons sold like hotcakes just prior to and after the ban was enacted.

.

 

[Lewdog]

Do you have problems with logic? The two incidents are not alike, therefor they can't be compared.

France was worse and demonstrated that gun bans do not work....

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Was the Las Vegas shooter stopped by an armed citizen?

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal.

that yet remains to be seen

Your argument doesn't hold water.

that strengthens his position not yours

We do know that. It's not legal to have fully automatic rifles unless you have them registered with the ATF and are given permission to do so.

We do know that.

you dont know shit Sherlock


i do not believe it was "fully automatic" by the sound it was either a bump fire or more likely a binary trigger

not that would expect a leftard to know the difference

Not a Leftard... but if that's how you try to prove your argument, it doesn't work.

 

[xotoxi]

Not a deflection. You can't compare the two incidents. One had 7-8 attackers, the other had a lone gunman.

Guns and the banning of them is the argument. What does the number of perpetrators in an incident have to do with France banning guns? If anything it proves they are even MORE readily available. You're like trying to walk a drunk through a doorway.

Do you have problems with logic? The two incidents are not alike, therefor they can't be compared.

France was worse and demonstrated that gun bans do not work....

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Was the Las Vegas shooter stopped by an armed citizen?

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal.

that yet remains to be seen

Do you have problems with logic? The two incidents are not alike, therefor they can't be compared.

France was worse and demonstrated that gun bans do not work....

But the fact that the US has 10.5 deaths per 100,000 people compared to France's 2.83 per 100,000 means absolutely nothing.

Yeap and they are a Social Democracy, drink more wine than we do per capita and have a 35 hour work week. Your point? If you want to be like France be like the rest of the Middle East and move there.

Hilarious .gif BTW...that shit makes me laugh every time I see it.

My point is that I'm comparing France to the US just like the OP is comparing France to the US.

Your point?

I am comparing the ease of gaining weaponry in a banned state versus the ease of gaining weaponry in an open state. We can easily by example provided at the Bataclan that when people WANT weapons they are certainly readily available. If you would like a little more education on radical Islam and their immense gun caches in Europe the information is readily available.
Post Bataclan they seized thousands of firearms...some in Mosques. Banning guns really bans nothing.

But it does cut down on the murder rate.

You can also see it in the states.

Firearm death rate per 100,000:
Alaska 19.59
Louisiana 19.15
Alabama 17.79
Mississippi 17.55
Wyoming 17.51
Montana 16.94
Arkansas 16.93
Oklahoma 16.41
Tennessee 15.86
New Mexico 15.63
South Carolina 15.60
West Virginia 15.10
Missouri 14.56
Arizona 14.20
Nevada 14.16
Kentucky 14.15
Idaho 14.08
Indiana 13.04
Georgia 12.63
Florida 12.49
North Carolina 12.42
Michigan 12.03
Maine 11.89
North Dakota 11.89
Oregon 11.76
Colorado 11.75
Utah 11.69
Kansas 11.44
Pennsylvania 11.36
Ohio 11.14
Delaware 10.80
Texas 10.50
Virginia 10.46
Vermont 10.37
Wisconsin 9.93
Maryland 9.75
South Dakota 9.47
Washington 9.07
Nebraska 8.99
Illinois 8.67
Iowa 8.19
California 7.89
Minnesota 7.88
New Hampshire 7.03
New Jersey 5.69
Rhode Island 5.33
Connecticut 4.48
New York 4.39
Massachusetts 3.18
Hawaii 2.71

 

[AVISSSER]

France was worse and demonstrated that gun bans do not work....

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Was the Las Vegas shooter stopped by an armed citizen?

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal.

that yet remains to be seen

Your argument doesn't hold water.

that strengthens his position not yours

We do know that. It's not legal to have fully automatic rifles unless you have them registered with the ATF and are given permission to do so.

We do know that.

you dont know shit Sherlock


i do not believe it was "fully automatic" by the sound it was either a bump fire or more likely a binary trigger

not that would expect a leftard to know the difference

Not a Leftard... but if that's how you try to prove your argument, it doesn't work.

Lew...you're so damned far left you could kiss Stalin's ass.

 

[jon_berzerk]

France was worse and demonstrated that gun bans do not work....

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Was the Las Vegas shooter stopped by an armed citizen?

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal.

that yet remains to be seen

Your argument doesn't hold water.

that strengthens his position not yours

We do know that. It's not legal to have fully automatic rifles unless you have them registered with the ATF and are given permission to do so.

We do know that.

you dont know shit Sherlock


i do not believe it was "fully automatic" by the sound it was either a bump fire or more likely a binary trigger

not that would expect a leftard to know the difference

Not a Leftard... but if that's how you try to prove your argument, it doesn't work.

--LOL your not a leftard --LOL

it is more then obvious you do not have a clue what you are talking about

 

[AVISSSER]

Guns and the banning of them is the argument. What does the number of perpetrators in an incident have to do with France banning guns? If anything it proves they are even MORE readily available. You're like trying to walk a drunk through a doorway.

Do you have problems with logic? The two incidents are not alike, therefor they can't be compared.

France was worse and demonstrated that gun bans do not work....

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Was the Las Vegas shooter stopped by an armed citizen?

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal.

that yet remains to be seen

France was worse and demonstrated that gun bans do not work....

But the fact that the US has 10.5 deaths per 100,000 people compared to France's 2.83 per 100,000 means absolutely nothing.

Yeap and they are a Social Democracy, drink more wine than we do per capita and have a 35 hour work week. Your point? If you want to be like France be like the rest of the Middle East and move there.

Hilarious .gif BTW...that shit makes me laugh every time I see it.

My point is that I'm comparing France to the US just like the OP is comparing France to the US.

Your point?

I am comparing the ease of gaining weaponry in a banned state versus the ease of gaining weaponry in an open state. We can easily by example provided at the Bataclan that when people WANT weapons they are certainly readily available. If you would like a little more education on radical Islam and their immense gun caches in Europe the information is readily available.
Post Bataclan they seized thousands of firearms...some in Mosques. Banning guns really bans nothing.

But it does cut down on the murder rate.

You can also see it in the states.

Firearm death rate per 100,000:
Alaska 19.59
Louisiana 19.15
Alabama 17.79
Mississippi 17.55
Wyoming 17.51
Montana 16.94
Arkansas 16.93
Oklahoma 16.41
Tennessee 15.86
New Mexico 15.63
South Carolina 15.60
West Virginia 15.10
Missouri 14.56
Arizona 14.20
Nevada 14.16
Kentucky 14.15
Idaho 14.08
Indiana 13.04
Georgia 12.63
Florida 12.49
North Carolina 12.42
Michigan 12.03
Maine 11.89
North Dakota 11.89
Oregon 11.76
Colorado 11.75
Utah 11.69
Kansas 11.44
Pennsylvania 11.36
Ohio 11.14
Delaware 10.80
Texas 10.50
Virginia 10.46
Vermont 10.37
Wisconsin 9.93
Maryland 9.75
South Dakota 9.47
Washington 9.07
Nebraska 8.99
Illinois 8.67
Iowa 8.19
California 7.89
Minnesota 7.88
New Hampshire 7.03
New Jersey 5.69
Rhode Island 5.33
Connecticut 4.48
New York 4.39
Massachusetts 3.18
Hawaii 2.71

It sure does. No denying that. It sure as shit does. Welcome to America! Aint it grande? BTW where did you get those stats? They seem a bit wonky.

 

[Lewdog]

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal. Your argument doesn't hold water.

Was the Las Vegas shooter stopped by an armed citizen?

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal.

that yet remains to be seen

Your argument doesn't hold water.

that strengthens his position not yours

We do know that. It's not legal to have fully automatic rifles unless you have them registered with the ATF and are given permission to do so.

We do know that.

you dont know shit Sherlock


i do not believe it was "fully automatic" by the sound it was either a bump fire or more likely a binary trigger

not that would expect a leftard to know the difference

Not a Leftard... but if that's how you try to prove your argument, it doesn't work.

Lew...you're so damned far left you could kiss Stalin's ass.

And you still won't answer my question. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm actually against many laws that restrict gun ownership, however I'm not going to make false arguments like the OP in order to try and advance my agenda.

 

[gallantwarrior]

What's an assault rifle?

According President Clinton's Assault Weapons Ban ... It was classified as an assault weapon and illegal to purchase with more than one of these items on it:

Folding Stock
Pistol Grip
Flash Suppressor
Grenade Launcher

It's not an assault weapon if you have a grenade launcher ... As long as you don't have a folding stock, pistol grip or flash suppressor when you buy it.
Not to mention ... You could order a flash suppressor, pistol grip or folding stock and make after market adjustments.

And people wonder why President Clinton's Assault Weapons Ban was allowed to expire ... It was totally useless ...
It was just meant to appear to be something of substance ... And ultimately fail at doing anything more than doubling the number of people who legally own an assault weapon ... Assault weapons sold like hotcakes just prior to and after the ban was enacted.

.

Well, considering the shooter in this most recent incident has been cited as having assault rifles, I would be interested in knowing which of those features were prevalent on the firearms used, and how do so many usmb members and social media specialists already know conclusively that these features were present on the weapons used in the LV murders?

 

[francoHFW]

To compare two approaches to gun control.....

France banned all rifles....military rifles are banned, as are self defense rifles with magazines, the semi auto rifles we have here....

At their concert attack...130 were killed...

November 2015 Paris attacks - Wikipedia

Here....58......

Ridiculous comparison, dupe. they have Isis terrorists we have nuts who can buy machine guns anywhere. Thanks GOP!

 

[jon_berzerk]

The guns the Las Vegas shooter used were illegal.

that yet remains to be seen

Your argument doesn't hold water.

that strengthens his position not yours

We do know that. It's not legal to have fully automatic rifles unless you have them registered with the ATF and are given permission to do so.

We do know that.

you dont know shit Sherlock


i do not believe it was "fully automatic" by the sound it was either a bump fire or more likely a binary trigger

not that would expect a leftard to know the difference

Not a Leftard... but if that's how you try to prove your argument, it doesn't work.

Lew...you're so damned far left you could kiss Stalin's ass.

And you still won't answer my question. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm actually against many laws that restrict gun ownership, however I'm not going to make false arguments like the OP in order to try and advance my agenda.

what question

 

[xotoxi]

It sure does. No denying that. It sure as shit does. Welcome to America! Aint it grande? BTW where did you get those stats? They seem a bit wonky.

Good question. I found it on wikipedia.

But now that I looked back at the source of data, I see it was from a report from a biased source. I will look elsewhere to see if it is true or untrue.

 

[Lewdog]

We do know that. It's not legal to have fully automatic rifles unless you have them registered with the ATF and are given permission to do so.

We do know that.

you dont know shit Sherlock


i do not believe it was "fully automatic" by the sound it was either a bump fire or more likely a binary trigger

not that would expect a leftard to know the difference

Not a Leftard... but if that's how you try to prove your argument, it doesn't work.

Lew...you're so damned far left you could kiss Stalin's ass.

And you still won't answer my question. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm actually against many laws that restrict gun ownership, however I'm not going to make false arguments like the OP in order to try and advance my agenda.

what question

How did the fact we are able to legal buy rifles in the U.S. help to keep down the number of people killed in Las Vegas?

 

[xotoxi]

It sure does. No denying that. It sure as shit does. Welcome to America! Aint it grande? BTW where did you get those stats? They seem a bit wonky.

Good question. I found it on wikipedia.

But now that I looked back at the source of data, I see it was from a report from a biased source. I will look elsewhere to see if it is true or untrue.

Those numbers are good.

Here is CDC.gov with similar data.

Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

 

[xotoxi]

We do know that.

you dont know shit Sherlock


i do not believe it was "fully automatic" by the sound it was either a bump fire or more likely a binary trigger

not that would expect a leftard to know the difference

Not a Leftard... but if that's how you try to prove your argument, it doesn't work.

Lew...you're so damned far left you could kiss Stalin's ass.

And you still won't answer my question. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm actually against many laws that restrict gun ownership, however I'm not going to make false arguments like the OP in order to try and advance my agenda.

what question

How did the fact we are able to legal buy rifles in the U.S. help to keep down the number of people killed in Las Vegas?

Because the shooter wasn't as aggressive with his shooting if he wasn't afraid that gun-carrying people in the crowd might start shooting back. Maybe?

 

[AVISSSER]

We do know that.

you dont know shit Sherlock


i do not believe it was "fully automatic" by the sound it was either a bump fire or more likely a binary trigger

not that would expect a leftard to know the difference

Not a Leftard... but if that's how you try to prove your argument, it doesn't work.

Lew...you're so damned far left you could kiss Stalin's ass.

And you still won't answer my question. Thanks for proving my point.

I'm actually against many laws that restrict gun ownership, however I'm not going to make false arguments like the OP in order to try and advance my agenda.

what question

How did the fact we are able to legal buy rifles in the U.S. help to keep down the number of people killed in Las Vegas?

Complete bullshit, unanswerable question and you know it.