Fracking, some very good news

No one's looking to cripple the gas industry, drive away many very needed jobs or bankrupt our national energy security. But people trump profit. Homes beats Executive Suites. It's high time to be careful and thoughtful when an industry invades farmlands.

Seems like a reasonable comment to me. You do realize that the problems which seem to draw the most negative attention on this topic are all legal. I think that more than anything else is what really ticks off the anti's.

I recommend updating the oil and gas regs to better handle the modern technology used to get the natural gas out of the ground. Update the water disposal laws as well. All the angst pointed at the gas producers strikes me as based on a poor understanding of the issues involved, and where the changes need to be made.
 
Don't like websites? Fine...ask me. I spent time in the 80's and 90's drilling, completing, recompleting, fracing and producing oil and gas wells. Every technique I used for all of those activities was industry standard except one, and I ran off the service rig which did it. I don't need a website to know safe drilling practices, and certainly someone ignorant enough to think that reading a website will impart knowledge on any particular of this topic is delusional.
My career has been Environmental engineering. I have monitored air, water, soil, stack emissions and toxic and hazardous waste since 1984. I know something about contractors, industry lobbyists, state and federal regulators and the regulations they promulgate. I also live in the heart of the Marcellus Shale deposits right where Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia meet. The issue is both wholly comprehensible by me and local to me.

The utter lack of regulatory oversight scares the bejeebus out of me. Infrastructure demands, particularly on small, often one lane rural bridges should have been met BEFORE the invasion of drill rigs and the convoy of heavy equipment and trucks.

And, in Pennsylvania for now, those infrastructure demands must be borne by the county township or state. There's no extraction tax imposed to pay for the infrastructure improvements!

Rural wells and small municipal water supplies are at jeopardy because there's not enough in the state's treasuries to pay inspectors and technicians.

While exploiting the natural gas would be a great thing for our energy outlook, there's been very little care taken to protect the environment and the people who staked their claim to the ground before the energy companies staked claim to the stuff beneath it.

No one's looking to cripple the gas industry, drive away many very needed jobs or bankrupt our national energy security. But people trump profit. Homes beats Executive Suites. It's high time to be careful and thoughtful when an industry invades farmlands.

The roads are being repaired by the gas and trucking company's at leat in NE pa they are,

and stating there has been very little care is just so not true.

Watch out, Oldsalt may call you out for making up your degree, like he did to me.

The issue isn't about farmlands, its about aquifers. its also about localities that can use the influx of cash. Also remember, don't you think a locality will increase its property value assesment of a plot that produces gas? Municipalites make most of thier money off of property taxes. I also wouldnt be against the county in question imposing a extraction tax. everyone should make money off this.

The care will come from regulations. I have never been against regulations, only ones that are desgined to be a de facto ban, and not actual controls on a given activity.
 
I guess it depends where you look for your information. If the oil and gas industry websites say their drilling techniques are safe, the it must be true! Why would they lie about something like that?

Don't like websites? Fine...ask me. I spent time in the 80's and 90's drilling, completing, recompleting, fracing and producing oil and gas wells. Every technique I used for all of those activities was industry standard except one, and I ran off the service rig which did it. I don't need a website to know safe drilling practices, and certainly someone ignorant enough to think that reading a website will impart knowledge on any particular of this topic is delusional.
My career has been Environmental engineering. I have monitored air, water, soil, stack emissions and toxic and hazardous waste since 1984. I know something about contractors, industry lobbyists, state and federal regulators and the regulations they promulgate. I also live in the heart of the Marcellus Shale deposits right where Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia meet. The issue is both wholly comprehensible by me and local to me.

The utter lack of regulatory oversight scares the bejeebus out of me. Infrastructure demands, particularly on small, often one lane rural bridges should have been met BEFORE the invasion of drill rigs and the convoy of heavy equipment and trucks.

And, in Pennsylvania for now, those infrastructure demands must be borne by the county township or state. There's no extraction tax imposed to pay for the infrastructure improvements!

Rural wells and small municipal water supplies are at jeopardy because there's not enough in the state's treasuries to pay inspectors and technicians.

While exploiting the natural gas would be a great thing for our energy outlook, there's been very little care taken to protect the environment and the people who staked their claim to the ground before the energy companies staked claim to the stuff beneath it.

No one's looking to cripple the gas industry, drive away many very needed jobs or bankrupt our national energy security. But people trump profit. Homes beats Executive Suites. It's high time to be careful and thoughtful when an industry invades farmlands.

Great post.
 

It's not that I would have a problem with REGULATED fracking... but... is it so much to ask that we do things responsibly and in an environmentally friendly way?

Environmental Working Group has documented illegal practices, the use of toxic chemicals and water contamination that is apparently linked to fracking.

Unless high volume fracking and drilling is barred near drinking water sources and carefully regulated elsewhere, gas production will pose an expanding threat to homes, property values and water supplies.

It's critical that policymakers and environmental watchdogs close federal exemptions and intensify federal and state scrutiny to avert serious environmental damage as the pace of fracking accelerates.

What you need to know about fracking | Environmental Working Group
 

It's not that I would have a problem with REGULATED fracking... but... is it so much to ask that we do things responsibly and in an environmentally friendly way?

Environmental Working Group has documented illegal practices, the use of toxic chemicals and water contamination that is apparently linked to fracking.

Unless high volume fracking and drilling is barred near drinking water sources and carefully regulated elsewhere, gas production will pose an expanding threat to homes, property values and water supplies.

It's critical that policymakers and environmental watchdogs close federal exemptions and intensify federal and state scrutiny to avert serious environmental damage as the pace of fracking accelerates.

What you need to know about fracking | Environmental Working Group

Jillian,

I live in the fracking regions of PA. So I looked and look for verified facts. I ignored oil sites and pro-fracking sites. And I have found nothing to says fracking is bad b/c we proved it does .....

Sorry Jillian, it's just not there.

Fracking has been done for 60 years and over 1 million times. The only thing that went wrong was a single water spill that kill the grass and 1/2 the trees in an area the size of a ball park. And that was due to the salt, not the frack chemicals, in the water.

So it would seem to be the safest way to get fuel, b/c not even nuclear has such a clean record.
 

It's not that I would have a problem with REGULATED fracking... but... is it so much to ask that we do things responsibly and in an environmentally friendly way?

Environmental Working Group has documented illegal practices, the use of toxic chemicals and water contamination that is apparently linked to fracking.

Unless high volume fracking and drilling is barred near drinking water sources and carefully regulated elsewhere, gas production will pose an expanding threat to homes, property values and water supplies.

It's critical that policymakers and environmental watchdogs close federal exemptions and intensify federal and state scrutiny to avert serious environmental damage as the pace of fracking accelerates.

What you need to know about fracking | Environmental Working Group

Jillian,

I live in the fracking regions of PA. So I looked and look for verified facts. I ignored oil sites and pro-fracking sites. And I have found nothing to says fracking is bad b/c we proved it does .....

Sorry Jillian, it's just not there.

Fracking has been done for 60 years and over 1 million times. The only thing that went wrong was a single water spill that kill the grass and 1/2 the trees in an area the size of a ball park. And that was due to the salt, not the frack chemicals, in the water.

So it would seem to be the safest way to get fuel, b/c not even nuclear has such a clean record.

The record is there. You're choosing to ignore it, imo. And the fracking that was done over 60 years was not done on the scale proposed now. Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't explore it. I'm not opposed to the concept. I want it regulated. I don't want to hear stories about people's water being set on fire. I don't think that's a particularly untenable position. What I DO think is untenable is not controlling the manner in which the fracking is done.

I'm also not going to say that the anecdotal evidenceis without questions. But those questions need to be explored, not ignored. I have a problem with the level of concern about economic impact of regulation because it's simply disingenuous, particularly given the record profits of the oil and gas industries. Environmental impact studies are done when a traffic light is put into a neighborhood or a stadium is built. Don't you think an appropriate response to this issue is to look into these questions IN ADVANCE of the impact and not after when these places become huge superfund sites?

A Toxic Spew?
Officials worry about impact of 'fracking' of oil and gas.
(Page 1 of 2)
Cathy Behr says she won't forget the smell that nearly killed her. An emergency-room nurse in Durango, Colo.'s Mercy Regional Medical Center, Behr was working the April 17 day shift when Clinton Marshall arrived complaining of nausea and headaches. An employee at an energy-services company, Weatherford International, Marshall, according to Behr, said that he was caught in a "fracturing-fluid" spill. [Fracturing chemicals are routinely used on oil and gas wells where they are pumped deep into the ground to crack rock seams and increase production.] The chemical stench coming off Marshall's boots was buckling, says Behr. Mercy officials took no chances. They evacuated and locked down the ER, and its staff was instructed to don protective masks and gowns. But by the time those precautions were enacted, Behr had been nursing Marshall for 10 minutes--unprotected. "I honestly thought the response was a little overkill, but good practice," says Behr, 54, a 20-year veteran at Mercy

Oil & Gas Exploration: Is
 
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Q: What research is EPA proposing to undertake, what results does EPA expect the research it conducts to provide, and when will the results be available?

A: By 2012, EPA expects to have results from data analysis, modeling and retrospective case studies available to inform a preliminary assessment of potential impacts of hydraulic fracturing on drinking water resources.

By 2014, we will have additional results from data analysis and modeling, as well as results from laboratory work and the prospective case studies to expand our assessment of impacts of potential impacts of hydraulic fracturing on drinking water resources.

While research is under way, if EPA finds results of urgent concern regarding public health or environmental impacts, particularly in evaluation of local situations, we will immediately notify the appropriate parties and begin action.

Questions and Answers About EPA's Hydraulic Fracturing Study | Hydraulic Fracturing | US EPA

The EPA has been at it for a year and have not informed us of any hazards.

Considering how anti-oil / pro-green the current admin is, I think this is very telling.
 
It's not that I would have a problem with REGULATED fracking... but... is it so much to ask that we do things responsibly and in an environmentally friendly way?



What you need to know about fracking | Environmental Working Group

Jillian,

I live in the fracking regions of PA. So I looked and look for verified facts. I ignored oil sites and pro-fracking sites. And I have found nothing to says fracking is bad b/c we proved it does .....

Sorry Jillian, it's just not there.

Fracking has been done for 60 years and over 1 million times. The only thing that went wrong was a single water spill that kill the grass and 1/2 the trees in an area the size of a ball park. And that was due to the salt, not the frack chemicals, in the water.

So it would seem to be the safest way to get fuel, b/c not even nuclear has such a clean record.

The record is there. You're choosing to ignore it, imo. And the fracking that was done over 60 years was not done on the scale proposed now. Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't explore it. I'm not opposed to the concept. I want it regulated. I don't want to hear stories about people's water being set on fire. I don't think that's a particularly untenable position. What I DO think is untenable is not controlling the manner in which the fracking is done.

I'm also not going to say that the anecdotal evidenceis without questions. But those questions need to be explored, not ignored. I have a problem with the level of concern about economic impact of regulation because it's simply disingenuous, particularly given the record profits of the oil and gas industries. Environmental impact studies are done when a traffic light is put into a neighborhood or a stadium is built. Don't you think an appropriate response to this issue is to look into these questions IN ADVANCE of the impact and not after when these places become huge superfund sites?

A Toxic Spew?
Officials worry about impact of 'fracking' of oil and gas.
(Page 1 of 2)
Cathy Behr says she won't forget the smell that nearly killed her. An emergency-room nurse in Durango, Colo.'s Mercy Regional Medical Center, Behr was working the April 17 day shift when Clinton Marshall arrived complaining of nausea and headaches. An employee at an energy-services company, Weatherford International, Marshall, according to Behr, said that he was caught in a "fracturing-fluid" spill. [Fracturing chemicals are routinely used on oil and gas wells where they are pumped deep into the ground to crack rock seams and increase production.] The chemical stench coming off Marshall's boots was buckling, says Behr. Mercy officials took no chances. They evacuated and locked down the ER, and its staff was instructed to don protective masks and gowns. But by the time those precautions were enacted, Behr had been nursing Marshall for 10 minutes--unprotected. "I honestly thought the response was a little overkill, but good practice," says Behr, 54, a 20-year veteran at Mercy

Oil & Gas Exploration: Is

A worker got some chemicals on him?

and they stunk.

Don't get me wrong, I never said the work can't be dangerous, but no one has ever died from a bad smell.
 
The record is there. I don't want to hear stories about people's water being set on fire.

Water being set on fire isn't a "record". People near coal mines have been doing it longer than you have been alive. And certainly even the anecdotal claims of Gasland have nothing to do with how the fracing process itself could produce such a result.

jillian said:
What I DO think is untenable is not controlling the manner in which the fracking is done.

The frac engineer is always doing his best to control the manner in which the fracing is done. Why would you pretend otherwise? Is this yet another one of those Gasland claims? Do you really think that the pump truck is turned on, and then everyone runs off for a smoke break while the formation is being pressured up against, broken down, the pad being run followed by the proppant? All of this is controlled very closely, which is also why the frac engineer is the first person to know something has gone wrong. Not the landowner somewhere off in the distance looking for a pay off because he didn't happen to have the mineral rights and is irritated that his neighbor does.

jillian said:
Don't you think an appropriate response to this issue is to look into these questions IN ADVANCE of the impact and not after when these places become huge superfund sites?

Places with lots of water and sand are called beaches, not superfund sites. Using that type of language reveals exactly what level of fair examination you are willing to display towards the practice.
 
A worker got some chemicals on him?

and they stunk.

Don't get me wrong, I never said the work can't be dangerous, but no one has ever died from a bad smell.

What if I doused you with water and forced you to stand in a sandbox? Good Gods man, some of it might stick to your feet if you happened to be bare footed! THE INHUMANITY!!!!
 
I live in Pennsylvania. Everyone within miles of me used to have good wells. Then Marcellus Shale started drilling and fracking for natural gas. Now we all have to buy water for drinking and cooking and all our laundry has an orangish hue or plain rust spots from the iron that has been released into our water sources. Sinks and toilets and shower walls have all turned rust colored and I personally have to clean the inside of my toilet tanks a couple times a week to get the black slime out. The water in our rivers that are the major sources of city water have increasing contamination with bromides. In some areas they have reached dangerous levels.

Bromide: A concern in drilling wastewater
Sunday, March 13, 2011

Ballooning bromide concentrations in the region's rivers, occurring as Marcellus Shale wastewater discharges increase, is a much bigger worry than the risk of high radiation levels, public water suppliers say.

Unlike radiation, which so far has shown up at scary levels only in Marcellus Shale hydraulic fracturing wastewater sampling done at wellheads, the spike in salty bromides in Western Pennsylvania's rivers and creeks has already put some public water suppliers into violation of federal safe drinking water standards.



Read more: Bromide: A concern in drilling wastewater


Read more: Bromide: A concern in drilling wastewater
 
I live in Pennsylvania. Everyone within miles of me used to have good wells. Then Marcellus Shale started drilling and fracking for natural gas. Now we all have to buy water for drinking and cooking and all our laundry has an orangish hue or plain rust spots from the iron that has been released into our water sources. Sinks and toilets and shower walls have all turned rust colored and I personally have to clean the inside of my toilet tanks a couple times a week to get the black slime out. The water in our rivers that are the major sources of city water have increasing contamination with bromides. In some areas they have reached dangerous levels.

Bromide: A concern in drilling wastewater
Sunday, March 13, 2011

Ballooning bromide concentrations in the region's rivers, occurring as Marcellus Shale wastewater discharges increase, is a much bigger worry than the risk of high radiation levels, public water suppliers say.

Unlike radiation, which so far has shown up at scary levels only in Marcellus Shale hydraulic fracturing wastewater sampling done at wellheads, the spike in salty bromides in Western Pennsylvania's rivers and creeks has already put some public water suppliers into violation of federal safe drinking water standards.



Read more: Bromide: A concern in drilling wastewater


Read more: Bromide: A concern in drilling wastewater

The bromide issue is solvable by requring the treatment plants to change thier process to inlcude bromide reduction.

As for your first statement, sources?
 
I live in Pennsylvania. Everyone within miles of me used to have good wells. Then Marcellus Shale started drilling and fracking for natural gas. Now we all have to buy water for drinking and cooking and all our laundry has an orangish hue or plain rust spots from the iron that has been released into our water sources. Sinks and toilets and shower walls have all turned rust colored and I personally have to clean the inside of my toilet tanks a couple times a week to get the black slime out. The water in our rivers that are the major sources of city water have increasing contamination with bromides. In some areas they have reached dangerous levels.

Bromide: A concern in drilling wastewater
Sunday, March 13, 2011

Ballooning bromide concentrations in the region's rivers, occurring as Marcellus Shale wastewater discharges increase, is a much bigger worry than the risk of high radiation levels, public water suppliers say.

Unlike radiation, which so far has shown up at scary levels only in Marcellus Shale hydraulic fracturing wastewater sampling done at wellheads, the spike in salty bromides in Western Pennsylvania's rivers and creeks has already put some public water suppliers into violation of federal safe drinking water standards.




Read more: Bromide: A concern in drilling wastewater


Read more: Bromide: A concern in drilling wastewater

The bromide issue is solvable by requring the treatment plants to change thier process to inlcude bromide reduction.

As for your first statement, sources?

No sources, just personal observation since I, along with my neighbors are the people having to deal with this. The gas company did come in and test. They admitted that the iron content had gone up over 400% since they tested before drilling. They said all that was needed was a water softener. We now have soft red water that we cannot drink. I buy 'The Works' by the gallon trying to keep my sinks, tubs and toilets looking decent.


Actually, we are lucky. It could have been much worse.
Lawsuit: Gas Drilling Fluid Ruined Pa. Water Wells


http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=11646036
 
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