Fox's death book lie

[EriktheRed]

That's it? That's all you could come up with at your first opportunity to disagree with him?

Color me unimpressed...

He loves his family and is a good father... I appreciate that in him...

What he and his Marxist pals in the DNC are trying to do to the country is going to screw us all for years... For 8 years you bitched and moaned about spending money we didn't have and all of a sudden it's OK when Barry does it...

You're just to blinded with "Barry Love" to see it...

No, I just believe it's an investment worth making for the long-term (unlike a certain invasion/occupation) and I'm not convinced it's gonna be as bad as those who are bashing him are making it out to be.

Barry the Ossiah himself says it's going to get worse... Pay attention...

I have ALWAYS been against spending money we don't have for more gubmint control of our lives... You and Barry want to increase it and I hope you fail... Note, I didn't say I hope the economy fails - I hope your experiment in socialism/Marxism fails...

I could just easily turn it back on you and say that you have the new version of "BDS" when you use the term Marxist (and if you believe he's a "tyrant", too) when he and the Dems are really a long way from what the definition of that is.

More gubmint control and power over our lives is not how this country was designed to operate...

Therefore, you and Xeno can talk about me all you want, but it's pretty obvious you've got your own ideological hangups.

Yeah - I want fewer politicians deciding on how I run my life... I'm funny that way...

You might as well have been cut-and-pasting Limbaugh and/or Hannity.

 

[Dr.House]

Oh, and one more thing:

What started this exchange in the first place was me advising the OP against using such an overtly partisan source as DailyKos on here because of the reaction it would get from cons. Xeno came on and pretty much proved my point.

Thank you captain obvious... Any other words of obviousness?

There was no talk of "Barry love" or anything like that but apparently he saw fit to attack me (again) anyway.

So again, please spare me the hypocritical horseshit.

Stop whining, you fucking baby....

You're still a shill for Barry... I hope you and your hero's policies fail - big time - and I'll fight these harmful policies as hard as I can...

 

[EriktheRed]

Oh, and one more thing:

What started this exchange in the first place was me advising the OP against using such an overtly partisan source as DailyKos on here because of the reaction it would get from cons. Xeno came on and pretty much proved my point.

Thank you captain obvious... Any other words of obviousness?

There was no talk of "Barry love" or anything like that but apparently he saw fit to attack me (again) anyway.

So again, please spare me the hypocritical horseshit.

Stop whining, you fucking baby....

You're still a shill for Barry... I hope you and your hero's policies fail - big time - and I'll fight these harmful policies as hard as I can...

Oh god, you poor guy. You still keep calling me a mindless shill while using worn-out con takling points!

 

[Dr.House]

You might as well have been cut-and-pasting Limbaugh and/or Hannity.

Typical response from a "Barry Lover"... You got a little left on your chin, by the way...


Maybe they're copying me, since I don't watch or listen to either of them... Their agreement with me doesn't make my statements wrong... You're free to tell me where more gubmint control is a good thing...

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Daily Kos: State of the Nation

Fox's "death book" lie
by Jed Lewison


Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 0803 AM PDT

The deathers at Fox "News" have been caught with their pants down, once again.

This time -- led by Chris Wallace of Fox "News" Sunday -- Fox is alleging that President Obama is trying to prematurely end the lives of millions of veterans by forcing them to read a "death book" that urges them to "pull the plug" and commit "assisted suicide."

Not surprisingly, it turns out that Fox's attack is totally made up. Their so-called "death book" is actually an optional guidebook on drafting living wills that had been listed in a Veterans Health Administration (VHA) handbook by the Bush administration in 2007.



Here's more detail on the garbage being spewed by Fox:

1. Fox's alleged "death book" is actually a guidebook on preparing living wills

The thing Fox is calling a "death book" is actually a guidebook called "Your life, your choices" initially developed in 1997 to help veterans understand issues relating to advance directives and living wills should they ever experience a medical condition (such as a permanent coma) where they cannot communicate their treatment preferences. Although the guidebook can be downloaded, it carries a disclaimer noting that is currently being updated and revised for a 2010 release. (See this article for more information on the revisions.)

Despite Fox's claim that the guide encourages assisted suicide and euthanasia, it is solely focused on helping veterans determine what type of care they wish to receive if they should ever became incapable of making their wishes known. The guidebook specifically makes clear that it has nothing to do with assisted suicide, which is illegal.

2. Although Fox said VHA practitioners must give the guidebook to each of the 24 million vets they serve, there is no such requirement

According to a directive issued in 2007 under President Bush, the guidebook is merely an example of the type of document that VHA practitioners should give to patients who ask for help with living wills.

3. The Bush administration, not the Obama administration, included the guidebook in the VHA handbook.

In February 2007 the Bush administration's VA issued a directive listing the guidebook as an example of the type of documents VHA practitioners should give to patients who want help drafting living wills. In July 2009, the Obama administration issued a minor update to portions of that directive, but did not language on the guidebook at all.

Here's a comparison of the language contained in the Bush directive of February 2007 and the Obama update of July 2009. <more>

So Then Bush is a total doucebag too for letting this booklet be distributed.

Have you read it yet? IF you READ THE PAMPHLET it backs up what chris wallace said.

Here just in case you didn't actually reasearch this yourself and just ran with the dailyKos talking points.
http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

You can skip up to the main point of contention on page 21 but if you dont read the previous pages you miss the context which chris wallace was talking about.

Or just keep on keeping on with those talking points....its up to you.

Seriously people, try actually reading the pamphlet.

DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dr.House]

Oh god, you poor guy. You still keep calling me a mindless shill while using worn-out con takling points!

You are a mindless shill... Wear the badge proudly... Barry is counting on you to spread his message...

 

[Emma]

So, you didn't get past item #1 in my post?

No. For now I don't have time to get to the rest.

Why did you bother to post this???

Just checked a few posts made on subscribed threads while I grabbed a quick bite to eat... and to be polite and answer your question.

Sorry 'bout that.

 

[EriktheRed]

Oh god, you poor guy. You still keep calling me a mindless shill while using worn-out con takling points!

You are a mindless shill... Wear the badge proudly... Barry is counting on you to spread his message...

Okie-doke.


And you just keep right on channeling Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, et. al.

 

[Dr.House]

Oh god, you poor guy. You still keep calling me a mindless shill while using worn-out con takling points!

You are a mindless shill... Wear the badge proudly... Barry is counting on you to spread his message...

Okie-doke.

That a girl!

 

[rdean]

I'm shocked you are stupid enough to listen to Daily Kos.

I saw the show, Wallace asked why the book is referened on the web site, and was told (by a member of the administration) that it is not 'recommended' but by law it has to remain as it was PAID FOR BY GOVERNMENT FUNDS.

Wallace also read passages from the book THAT HE WAS HOLDING that asked ludicrous questions such as 'do you feel life is not worth living' and asked vets to check a box to indicate it was not.

When will you start to understand that Daily Kos is a shill for the administration, that these people will say and do ANYTHING to support their party?

As opposed to Fox?

 

[EriktheRed]

You are a mindless shill... Wear the badge proudly... Barry is counting on you to spread his message...

Okie-doke.

That a girl!

Let the record show that when I pointed out how this man lives in a glass house, all he could do was keep throwing stones.


See ya, Sparky!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I'm shocked you are stupid enough to listen to Daily Kos.

I saw the show, Wallace asked why the book is referened on the web site, and was told (by a member of the administration) that it is not 'recommended' but by law it has to remain as it was PAID FOR BY GOVERNMENT FUNDS.

Wallace also read passages from the book THAT HE WAS HOLDING that asked ludicrous questions such as 'do you feel life is not worth living' and asked vets to check a box to indicate it was not.

When will you start to understand that Daily Kos is a shill for the administration, that these people will say and do ANYTHING to support their party?

As opposed to Fox?

Nope as opposed to actually reading the pamphlet yourself. Read it, i dont like the language in it very much.....it does strike the chord that Chris Wallace claims. It doesn't call for them to kill themselves or anything but it is structured in a very depressing way, as i read it.

Do you want the link?

Check the questions on page 21, those are probably the worst part.

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

 

[Dr.House]

Okie-doke.

That a girl!

Let the record show that when I pointed out how this man lives in a glass house, all he could do was keep throwing stones.

Whom do I shill for, doofus?

You're really not very good at following conversations... You should have paid attention in class this year when they went over that....

 

[Emma]

I'm shocked you are stupid enough to listen to Daily Kos.

I saw the show, Wallace asked why the book is referened on the web site, and was told (by a member of the administration) that it is not 'recommended' but by law it has to remain as it was PAID FOR BY GOVERNMENT FUNDS.

Wallace also read passages from the book THAT HE WAS HOLDING that asked ludicrous questions such as 'do you feel life is not worth living' and asked vets to check a box to indicate it was not.

When will you start to understand that Daily Kos is a shill for the administration, that these people will say and do ANYTHING to support their party?

As opposed to Fox?

Nope as opposed to actually reading the pamphlet yourself. Read it, i dont like the language in it very much.....it does strike the chord that Chris Wallace claims it does.

Do you want the link?

Check the questions on page 21, those are probably the worst part.

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

What's wrong with page 21?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

it just reads all creepy....i mean look at the only possible options to respond to the questions. one of 4 choices.

Difficult but acceptable
Worth living, but just barely
Not worth living
Can't Answer Now


I mean can we have one positive answer for people to pick. Do you personally know any handicapped people? I do and when i showed him this he was offended at the lack of a positive choice for an answer to quote "What does the government think just because i have disability my life must suck?"

If you read the whole document its all worded in a very "negative to be alive" manner.

Thats my beef and from what i saw of the chris wallace stuff it was his beef too. A lot of people are exagerating what wallace was saying and taking stuff out of context IMO.

Again thats In my Opinion IMO

 

[Chris]

it just reads all creepy....i mean look at the only possible options to respond to the questions. one of 4 choices.

Difficult but acceptable
Worth living, but just barely
Not worth living
Can't Answer Now


I mean can we have one positive answer for people to pick. Do you personally know any handicapped people? I do and when i showed him this he was offended at the lack of a positive choice for an answer to quote "What does the government think just because i have disability my life must suck?"

If you read the whole document its all worded in a very "negative to be alive" manner.

Thats my beef and from what i saw of the chris wallace stuff it was his beef too. A lot of people are exagerating what wallace was saying and taking stuff out of context IMO.

Again thats In my Opinion IMO

So you are complaining that they are positive enough about dying?

 

[DiveCon]

it just reads all creepy....i mean look at the only possible options to respond to the questions. one of 4 choices.

Difficult but acceptable
Worth living, but just barely
Not worth living
Can't Answer Now


I mean can we have one positive answer for people to pick. Do you personally know any handicapped people? I do and when i showed him this he was offended at the lack of a positive choice for an answer to quote "What does the government think just because i have disability my life must suck?"

If you read the whole document its all worded in a very "negative to be alive" manner.

Thats my beef and from what i saw of the chris wallace stuff it was his beef too. A lot of people are exagerating what wallace was saying and taking stuff out of context IMO.

Again thats In my Opinion IMO

So you are complaining that they are positive enough about dying?

no, that they arent positive enough about LIVING

but it figures a moron like you wouldnt understand it

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

DiveCon beat me to it.

The pamphlet just has this depressing aura about it, they should have some positive options.....some of us actually use postive thinking to overcome/cope with illness and disability.


Its just creepy to me to have the govt asking stuff in that manner. Now that i think about the govt asking me just about anything seem wrong and creepy.

 

[finebead]

August 25, 2009

Health Care Reform Hysteria:
‘Death Book’ Scare Tactics Inexcusable

(Washington, D.C.) – “Health care reform is a legitimate topic for discussion and debate,” said John Rowan, National President of Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA), “but it is outrageous for some partisans to politicize the debate by targeting veterans with blatant scare tactics.

“The issue du jour is the so-called Death Book for veterans,” Rowan said. In an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, the person who headed the office of faith-based initiatives for the Bush White House attacked ‘Your Life, Your Choices,’ a 52-page booklet of end-of-life options to be considered by veterans and their families that has been given out by the VA as per federal law. This booklet, developed in 1997 when Bill Clinton was President, was given to veterans and their families, if requested, under a directive in 2007 from President Bush. It was updated last month, under President Obama.

“This booklet was developed with guidance from clerics,” Rowan said, “and it addresses options most of us and our loved ones will have to sort through as we live our final years. To play politics with veterans’ end-of-life choices is not only irresponsible politically, but it is cruel. We agree with Congressman Joe Sestak, a retired Navy Admiral, who is outraged at the ‘Death Book’ charges and has called them ‘inexcusable.’

“It is our hope that sane minds reject fear-mongering, and that veterans recognize these scare tactics for what they are,” Rowan said.
-- 30 --
Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA) is the nation's only congressionally chartered veterans service organization dedicated to the needs of Vietnam-era veterans and their families.

VVA Press Release: Health Care Reform Hysteria: &lsquo;Death Book&rsquo; Scare Tactics Inexcusable

Posted without further comment!