Fourth reactor on fire

[Chris]

A fire is now burning at a fourth reactor Japan's quake-stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, with Prime Minister Naoto Kan warning a meltdown is likely.

Mr Kan says radiation levels have risen considerably, and has told people within 30 kilometres of the plant to stay indoors.

Authorities are also telling everyone within a 20-kilometre radius of the plant to leave, with a new warning for people within 10 kilometres of the nearby Fukushima Daini plant to do the same.

Mr Kan's announcement on national television followed a fresh explosion on Tuesday at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, which damaged the roof above the third reactor to suffer problems there.

Radio New Zealand : News : World : Nuclear plant on fire

 

[Liability]

This is unGodly bad news. It just keeps piling up.

Those poor people.

Somebody there was quoted today as noting (bitterly, perhaps) that first they lose their houses and then the government tells them to stay indoors. It would almost be funny if it weren't for the fact that far too many lives are literally in peril.

 

[Liability]

This is one of the worst case scenarios explained, briefly and graphically:

-- Another explosion at Fukushima nuclear reactor as Japan admits meltdown 'likely' | Courier Mail

 

[Old Rocks]

For the next 24 hours, the winds will be blowing inland from the reactor site.

 

[Wicked Jester]

This is unGodly bad news. It just keeps piling up.

Those poor people.

Somebody there was quoted today as noting (bitterly, perhaps) that first they lose their houses and then the government tells them to stay indoors. It would almost be funny if it weren't for the fact that far too many lives are literally in peril.

It's seriously bad news.......You're talkin up to four possible meltdowns in the works......Not only is it bad for the Japanese (God, please look down upon them) but, this could also have serious implications for our citizens in Hawaii, and those of us on the west coast under the right weather conditions......One Autralian Nuclear Scientist said that if the weather conditions are right, we could see rad levels between 1000-1500 carried as far as the west coast.. If I remember correctly, through my NBC training in the ARMY, 500 or more is not good.

And, we have 17 confirmed members of the NAVY aboard the USS Reagan who have had to be decontaminated.........They've now moved far out to sea.

 

[Old Rocks]

The fourth reactor building stores spent fuel rods. Now the rational question, what is burning, and how dangerous are those 'spent' rods?

 

[Mini 14]

Reported that the fire in #4 was caused by a hydrogen explosion, so I think it is a safe bet the "spent rods" aren't completely spent. Probably just not enough fuel left to be profitable.

Don't know if they could still melt down as well? But they keep them cool, so they must still be very volatile.

Just reported snow expected tomorrow.

Good Lord, how much can they take????

 

[skeptic]

1. (exodus 7:14–25&#708 water turned to blood killing all fish and other water life. (Dam)
2. (exodus 8:1–8:15&#708 frogs (Tsifardeah)
3. (exodus 8:16–19&#708 lice or gnats (Kinim)
4. (exodus 8:20–30&#708 gnats and flies (Arov)
5. (exodus 9:1–7&#708 disease on livestock (Dever)
6. (exodus 9:8–12&#708 unhealable boils (Shkhin)
7. (exodus 9:13–35&#708 hail and thunder (Barad)
8. (exodus 10:1–20&#708 locusts (Arbeh)
9. (exodus 10:21–29&#708 darkness (Choshech)
10. (exodus 11˄,12&#708 death of the first-born of all humans and animals who do not have marked doorposts. (Makat b'chorot)

 

[Chris]

dogs and cats living together...

 

[Chris]

Tokyo (CNN) -- Spent fuel rods containing radioactive material may have burned in Tuesday's fire at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant -- causing a spike in radiation levels, the plant's owner said.

The blaze started Tuesday morning but was later extinguished, Tokyo Electric Power Company said. It was unclear how much radioactive material may have been emitted, or what kind of health threat that could pose.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said Tuesday afternoon that radiation readings at the plant's front gate had returned to a level that would not cause "harm to human health."

Japanese officials earlier told the International Atomic Energy Agency that radioactivity was "being released directly into the atmosphere" during the fire, according to a statement from the UN watchdog organization.

High temperatures inside the building that houses the plant's No. 4 reactor may have caused fuel rods sitting in a pool to ignite or explode, the plant's owner said.

Officials: Spent fuel rods may have burned in blaze at nuclear plant - CNN.com

 

[JBeukema]

Are there no more ideas on how to cool this thing? At this point, we're open to just about anything, aren't we?

 

[boedicca]

It's too bad there isn't a Red Adair equivalent for the nuclear industry.

The more I read the sadder I get. It's not Chernobyl, but it is very ugly.

My heart is especially with the workers in the reactors who are diligently doing their jobs while looking into the mouth of hell.

 

[Liability]

I hate to be the bringer of even more gloom and doom dimensions to this discussion, but even though the likely meltdown of one or more of the reactor cores in Japan may not be "as bad" as Chernobyl, in certain respects, there are reasons to think that they could ultimately prove even worse.*

In any event, it is a dark discussion either way. I mean, who the hell gets solace out of the expression, "well, at least it wasn't as bad as Chernobyl?"


___________________
* For instance: Radioactive leak in Japan can prove worse Also, Japan has advised the International Atoic energy Agency that the radiation from the crippled reactors is leaking DIRECTLY into the air. Japan radiation leaking directly into air: IAEA | Reuters

 

[Ravi]

Are there no more ideas on how to cool this thing? At this point, we're open to just about anything, aren't we?

I read earlier today that they are going to try using fire engines and helicopters to blast water to cool things down.

 

[Jos]

You Can Stop Worrying About A Radiation Disaster In Japan -- Here's Why
Read this and calm down

 

[Liability]

You Can Stop Worrying About A Radiation Disaster In Japan -- Here's Why
Read this and calm down

That platitudinous crap is not persuasive. We are all calm, though. But thanks for worrying about that all the same.

Since that dopey nonsense was printed, there have been more explosions and likely breaches of the containment vessel.

The "calm down" blather is nice. I know I feel all better reading that stuff. Except, there is one small problem. The evidence to the CONTRARY of what your author wrote a couple of days ago is pretty starkly a contradiction of his very premise. See, for instance: Japanese crisis worsens, all eyes on reactor vessel - International Business Times

IF the explosions have not caused a leak or cracks in the very foundation of the containment structures (which is not yet known), then maybe the meltdowns can end up being more or less contained and the damages mitigated. BUT, if such foundational structures have been damaged -- particularly where the prospect of more explosions or quakes are so prominent -- then the assurances offered in that article end up having pretty much no value at all.

And when Dr. O starts off by claiming, "I repeat, there was and will *not* be any significant release of radioactivity from the damaged Japanese reactors" it is time to second guess your own "reliance" on that researcher.

Dr. O:

He does qualify what he means, "By 'significant' I mean a level of radiation of more than what you would receive on - say - a long distance flight, or drinking a glass of beer that comes from certain areas with high levels of natural background radiation." Except, that's already wrong.

Dr. O has an interesting background (MIT notwithstanding) for you to place such stock in his platitudes anyway:

The main research interest of Dr. Josef Oehmen is risk management in the value chain, with a special focus on lean product development. Risk management allows companies to design and achieve the optimal risk-return balance in their portfolio of activities, successfully take entrepreneurial risks, increase their performance, and focus their attention on where it is needed most.

 

[Liability]

Now, for a slightly DIFFERENT view on how bad the Japanese nuclear meltdowns are, here are some folks (possibly not including anyone from MIT, admittedly) who MIGHT have some actual expertise, nonetheless, IN the field:

Fukushima nuke plant situation 'worsened considerably': think tank

WASHINGTON, March 15, Kyodo

The situation at the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant in northeastern Japan ''has worsened considerably,'' the Institute for Science and International Security said in a statement released Tuesday.

Referring to fresh explosions that occurred earlier in the day at the site and problems in a pool storing spent nuclear fuel rods, the Washington-based think tank said, ''This accident can no longer be viewed as a level 4 on the International Nuclear and Radiological Events scale that ranks events from 1 to 7.''

Noting that a level 4 incident involves ''only local radiological consequences,'' it said the ongoing crisis is ''now closer to a level 6, and it may unfortunately reach a level 7'' -- a worst case scenario with extensive health and environmental consequences.

''The international community should increase assistance to Japan to both contain the emergency at the reactors and to address the wider contamination. We need to find a solution together,'' it said.

==Kyodo

Fukushima nuke plant situation 'worsened considerably': think tank | Kyodo News

By the way, the group, Institute for Science and International Security, can be evaluated by looking at it, starting here: Institute for Science and International Security

 

[Mini 14]

The fire in #4 is burning again.

 

[skeptic]

I read thats a new fire in reactor 4 and there has been a fourth explosion.

The press is disgusting. They report 12 hour old news and don't bother to clarify basic points like when they say "another explosion occurred tuesday" whether that was the explosion that happened last night which was Tuesday in Japan, or whether it happened when the report was posted online an hour ago.

And the stats and terminology are all over the place. The newest radiation spike following this most recent explosion is allegedly 143 times the safe limit. Whatever the hell that means.

I am beginning to agree that the press coverage sucks.

Those poor people in Japan must be frazzled. They will likely be dealing with this for months, and you never know if the news is being suppressed to avoid panic or to protect the nuclear industry.

Somebody pointed it out on this board there is a safe nuclear reactor, it's called a thorium reactor, but it doesn't produce plutonium which we need for nuclear weapons.

We spread nuclear technology around the globe 40 years ago because we wanted to reap the byproducts, so we did so setting up agreements to dispose of their waste. Well we haven't been so hot at waste disposal and we have spawned an industry that we can't control.

Mean while a nearly perfect alternative exists in thorium reactors and we suppress them for obvious reasons. In light of this series of accidents I am sickened by it.

knock yourself out, it's a real eye opener:

Google

Thorium fuel cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thorium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, Skeptic, finally you are recognizing the gravity of this situation.

Right now, it appears that we are headed for a multiple meltdown, with a high possibility of the containment vessels being breached, and, of course, the open to atmosphere, containment pond already spewing.

Heard one commentator quote a physicist that stated this may hit level 8 on nuclear scale. In other words, a magnitude larger than Chernobyl. Let's hope the fellow being quoted doesn't know what he is talking about.