Fossil Fuel Free In Ten Years

[wihosa]

Yea, Ok, you win.

In ten years we can shut down oil drilling, production, and refineries.

We're not going to shut down production or refining. We're just going to stop burning oil.

One brainwashed righty down, millions to go!

 

[Sunni Man]

We're not going to shut down production or refining. We're just going to stop burning oil.

One brainwashed righty down, millions to go!

Where did you get the idea I am a righty??

You really are quite full of yourself Whosa.

 

[wihosa]

Where did you get the idea I am a righty??

You really are quite full of yourself Whosa.

My apology, you're not a righty, just brainwashed.

A little too uppity?

 

[Sunni Man]

My apology, you're not a righty, just brainwashed.

Brain washed about what?

 

[wihosa]

About how difficult it is to stop using fossil fuels.

 

[dilloduck]

About how difficult it is to stop using fossil fuels.

Apparently it ain't all that hard if we can do it in 10 years as you claim.

 

[wihosa]

Apparently it ain't all that hard if we can do it in 10 years as you claim.

Not saying it'll be easy, only acheivable, and with huge payoffs in environmental, economic and geo-political terms.

 

[dilloduck]

Very naive OP

Factorys and industries need massive amounts of fossil fuels to operate.

So does our military

You ain't just a whistling Dixie. The logic on this one is sure to spin you head around.

 

[wihosa]

What logic?

 

[dilloduck]

what Logic?

bingo

 

[wihosa]

bingo

Your favorite game?

 

[midcan5]

Thoughtful post.

Two observations: if outsourcing continues we won't have to worry about an industrial base, and why not use synthetic lubricants, my wife's new car requires it.

It is curious to me the irony and outright silliness of the wingnuts in issues of energy and business (markets), they want to drill all over America to gain a minuscule amount of oil that will only enter the same market that has pushed prices too high. Their argument is the money will stay here. But then they argue for outsourcing and a global economy in which most everything is made over there. They worship walmart, China's biggest ally and buy stuff made everywhere but here because it cost too much to earn a decent living. Boggles my mind on a daily basis.

 

[Charles_Main]

Okay, so how does that mean they can't be converted?

Yes, but not with out a massive amount of Money being spent, and NOT in 10 years. More like 30 or 40 years if you ask me.

 

[Chris]

Yes, but not with out a massive amount of Money being spent, and NOT in 10 years. More like 30 or 40 years if you ask me.

30 or 40 years if we keep electing Republicans.

 

[jreeves]

30 or 40 years if we keep electing Republicans.

You mean if Pelosi allows a vote it won't take us 30 or 40 years....

House Republicans have introduced a comprehensive energy reform bill we call the American Energy Act. The American Energy Act calls for “all of the above” when it comes to the reforms needed to lower gas prices and liberate America from its dependence on foreign oil: more conservation, more alternative and renewable energy, and more production of American-made energy. It would accelerate the development and implementation of clean, renewable fuels; create new incentives for conservation and development of alternative energy sources; and lift the government ban on drilling in the frozen North Slope of Alaska and deepwater ocean energy zones far off the U.S. coast. We need to make use of these untapped American resources for affordable energy in the short-term as we work to develop and implement new, cleaner energy sources for the 21st Century.

John Boehner - 8th District of Ohio

 

[chapstic]

About how difficult it is to stop using fossil fuels.

until you have stepped foot into any factory, refinery, power plant, you have no idea what you are talking about. all those machines require proper lubricant to operate.

you think a wind turbine is oil free? dream on, that gear box has the be properly lubricated.

do you enjoy the food you eat? hate to break it to ya, most of the machines that process that food require proper lubrication.

ethanol plants burn more oil making the ethanol than what we actually get from the corn.

electric cars. you do realize a power plant of some sort powers your house, which therefore recharges the batteries in your cars.

 

[editec]

This is a classic example of why clean energy has failed.

People either do not support clean energy, or they do support clean energy but they overestimate their own wisdom and consequently micro manage the solution to death.

How to solve the problem: create incentives for clean energy, and remove incentives for dirty energy. Then, let people innovate. Sit back and watch a spectacular show.

Examples of current barriers to clean energy:

Example 1) Fossil fuel energy is not required to pay collateral costs, while clean energy is. Coal plants are free of any responsibility for the pollution they produce the minute it leaves the exhaust stack, but a nuclear power producer is liable for the nuclear fuel indefinitely. Petroleum production/imports pay no tax and suffer virtually zero regulation, but bio ethanol production/imports are required to pay crippling import taxes, are subject to draconian import quota, and are often regulated by multiple federal and state agencies.

Example 2) Infrastructure for fossil fuel use is partly tax payer funded, while infrastructure for more economically friendly alternatives enjoys no subsidies. The gasoline tax (25 cents per gallon or so) pays for only a small fraction of upkeep costs for our roads, with taxpayers footing the rest of the bill. Alternatives such as light rail enjoy no such subsidies.

This is madness. Ecologically friendly solutions will arise on their own accord if government takes its enormous heel off of them.

Perceptive.

The government distorts the market.

That is true. So far, I can agree with our libertarian chums who bitch about this.

Now here's the rest of the story...the special interests of the market itself are demanding that the government distort the market...to their benefit

Not the tree huggers, not the environmentalists (like we constantly being told by our neo-cns, cums) but those enormous players which control the market control the government to control the market.

So the simplistic view that the existence of government is THE PROBLEM misses the point.

Governments aren't inherently bad, BAD government is inherently bad.

Capitalists aren't inherently bad, BAD capitalist are inherently bad.

The sooner we end this revolving door game of lobbyists and Congressional players and government regulators moving between being the the regulator and being the regulated, the sooner we can start really dealing with these problems rationally.

I think its unconsionable that former Congress members and their aids, people who'd been deciding issues effecting industry, then become lobbyists for those industies.

This is not a partisan slam since members of BOTH parties play this game.

 

[Chris]

The oil lobbyists and their Republican allies do not want fuel conservation or alternative energy.

It is up to the American people to move in that direction and screw Big Oil.

 

[jreeves]

The oil lobbyists and their Republican allies do not want fuel conservation or alternative energy.

It is up to the American people to move in that direction and screw Big Oil.

Sure that's the reason the Democrats are blocking the vote on a Republican bill that pushes new drilling, alternative energy sources and a plan to make us oil independent altogether.....

 

[AllieBaba]

Thoughtful post.

Two observations: if outsourcing continues we won't have to worry about an industrial base, and why not use synthetic lubricants, my wife's new car requires it.

It is curious to me the irony and outright silliness of the wingnuts in issues of energy and business (markets), they want to drill all over America to gain a minuscule amount of oil that will only enter the same market that has pushed prices too high. Their argument is the money will stay here. But then they argue for outsourcing and a global economy in which most everything is made over there. They worship walmart, China's biggest ally and buy stuff made everywhere but here because it cost too much to earn a decent living. Boggles my mind on a daily basis.

And what boggles my mind are the nuts who think we can tell how much oil is there, or how long it will last.

Since the TURN OF THE CENTURY the same tired argument has been out there. Oil is limited, we only have enough for 30 more years, there isn't enough to bother with, etc. and so on and so forth.

It's all just hysterical and hopeful theorizing on the part of negativity junkies who just can't bring themselves to believe that we are capable of doing anything for ourselves.