Fossil Fuel Free In Ten Years

[wihosa]

Could it be done?

Yes, and here's why.

First, the needed technologies exist right now. No need to wait for some time way out in the future when we can all line up to buy hydrogen from multi national corporations who have cornered the market on hydrogen.

Second, we are Americans. We have historically risen to the challange to inovate. We spanned a continent with railroads, built the Panama Canal, electrified rural America, built the interstate highway system, and put a man on the moon. The challange is not too great.

One immediate question is how will we run our cars? The answer is electric cars. Again the technologies exist right now. You say "but electric cars can only go 75 to 100 miles with out a re-charge". True, but answer this question; What is the range of an electric car, if instead of pulling into a gas station you pulled into a battery exchane station? Answer;Unlimited.

Where will we get the needed electricity? Existing hydro generation, wind, solar and geo-thermal. Temporary use of natural gas (a relatively clean buring fossil fuel) during the transitional period will help bridge the gap.

Wind generation is a proven producer right now. Science News reported a couple years ago that virtually all the power needs of the US could be met with wind power alone. Wind is far cheaper than nuclear power and competitve with fossil fuels.

Solar panels (photovoltaic or PV panels) could become ubiquitous with legislation requiring all new buildings to produce a portion of their useage, say 10%. This would immediately create a market for PV, competition and mass production would drive the price down to the point that it would make economic sense for indiviuals to install PV panels. Who wouldn't invest a few hundred dollars for PV if the payback period was just a couple years and thereafter the panels would actually make money. There would also have to be requirements for power providers to install two way metering upon request.

These are the basics. Just immagine what would happen to the price of oil if we announced to the world our intention to be fossil fuel free in ten years. And where would the terrorists get the money to carry on world wide jihad if their benefactors where suddenly without their sea of oil profits?

 

[Chris]

Could it be done?

Yes, and here's why.

First, the needed technologies exist right now. No need to wait for some time way out in the future when we can all line up to buy hydrogen from multi national corporations who have cornered the market on hydrogen.

Second, we are Americans. We have historically risen to the challange to inovate. We spanned a continent with railroads, built the Panama Canal, electrified rural America, built the interstate highway system, and put a man on the moon. The challange is not too great.

One immediate question is how will we run our cars? The answer is electric cars. Again the technologies exist right now. You say "but electric cars can only go 75 to 100 miles with out a re-charge". True, but answer this question; What is the range of an electric car, if instead of pulling into a gas station you pulled into a battery exchane station? Answer;Unlimited.

Where will we get the needed electricity? Existing hydro generation, wind, solar and geo-thermal. Temporary use of natural gas (a relatively clean buring fossil fuel) during the transitional period will help bridge the gap.

Wind generation is a proven producer right now. Science News reported a couple years ago that virtually all the power needs of the US could be met with wind power alone. Wind is far cheaper than nuclear power and competitve with fossil fuels.

Solar panels (photovoltaic or PV panels) could become ubiquitous with legislation requiring all new buildings to produce a portion of their useage, say 10%. This would immediately create a market for PV, competition and mass production would drive the price down to the point that it would make economic sense for indiviuals to install PV panels. Who wouldn't invest a few hundred dollars for PV if the payback period was just a couple years and thereafter the panels would actually make money. There would also have to be requirements for power providers to install two way metering upon request.

These are the basics. Just immagine what would happen to the price of oil if we announced to the world our intention to be fossil fuel free in ten years. And where would the terrorists get the money to carry on world wide jihad if their benefactors where suddenly without their sea of oil profits?

Great post.

Our dependence on oil is the greatest problem facing America today. Alternative energy is all around us. We just need to harness it.

 

[wihosa]

"Alternative energy is all around us. We just need to harness it."

Exactly, unfortunately multi national corporation propaganda is also all around us.

The answers are there, but not the leadership.

 

[Sunni Man]

Very naive OP

Factorys and industries need massive amounts of fossil fuels to operate.

So does our military

 

[wihosa]

Very naive OP

Factorys and industries need massive amounts of fossil fuels to operate.

So does our military

Okay, so how does that mean they can't be converted?

There are certainly challanges, but there are also answers. There may be some things that simply cannot be converted to electricity, for instance heavy constructon equipment but such equipment can run just as efficiently on clean buring bio-diesel.

Don't be surprised when the oil corporations pull out all the stops to persuade us no to end their gravy train.

 

[Sunni Man]

I have worked in industrial environments all of my life.

Factory machinery needs and runs on lubricants.

Sure homes and businesses and cars can be converted to solar or bio fuels.

But it takes heavy fossil fuels to maintain an industrial base.

Also, think about everything that you have made from plastic. It is made from fossil fuels.

 

[thrimironaxe]

This is a classic example of why clean energy has failed.

People either do not support clean energy, or they do support clean energy but they overestimate their own wisdom and consequently micro manage the solution to death.

How to solve the problem: create incentives for clean energy, and remove incentives for dirty energy. Then, let people innovate. Sit back and watch a spectacular show.

Examples of current barriers to clean energy:

Example 1) Fossil fuel energy is not required to pay collateral costs, while clean energy is. Coal plants are free of any responsibility for the pollution they produce the minute it leaves the exhaust stack, but a nuclear power producer is liable for the nuclear fuel indefinitely. Petroleum production/imports pay no tax and suffer virtually zero regulation, but bio ethanol production/imports are required to pay crippling import taxes, are subject to draconian import quota, and are often regulated by multiple federal and state agencies.

Example 2) Infrastructure for fossil fuel use is partly tax payer funded, while infrastructure for more economically friendly alternatives enjoys no subsidies. The gasoline tax (25 cents per gallon or so) pays for only a small fraction of upkeep costs for our roads, with taxpayers footing the rest of the bill. Alternatives such as light rail enjoy no such subsidies.

This is madness. Ecologically friendly solutions will arise on their own accord if government takes its enormous heel off of them.

 

[wihosa]

I have worked in industrial environments all of my life.

Factory machinery needs and runs on lubricants.

Sure homes and businesses and cars can be converted to solar or bio fuels.

But it takes heavy fossil fuels to maintain an industrial base.

Also, think about everything that you have made from plastic. It is made from fossil fuels.

The need for petrolium products will not be eliminated, but that is not the objective. The objective is to stop burning fossil fuels for energy, but your comment points out another reason to stop burning oil; Will people of the future not need plastics? Fertilizers? Chemicals?

How foolish it would be to literally burn up such a valuable resource.

"But it takes heavy fossil fuels to maintain an industrial base" What does that mean specifically? What is a heavy fossil fuel? Deisel?

 

[wihosa]

This is a classic example of why clean energy has failed.

People either do not support clean energy, or they do support clean energy but they overestimate their own wisdom and consequently micro manage the solution to death.

How to solve the problem: create incentives for clean energy, and remove incentives for dirty energy. Then, let people innovate. Sit back and watch a spectacular show.

Examples of current barriers to clean energy:

Example 1) Fossil fuel energy is not required to pay collateral costs, while clean energy is. Coal plants are free of any responsibility for the pollution they produce the minute it leaves the exhaust stack, but a nuclear power producer is liable for the nuclear fuel indefinitely. Petroleum production/imports pay no tax and suffer virtually zero regulation, but bio ethanol production/imports are required to pay crippling import taxes, are subject to draconian import quota, and are often regulated by multiple federal and state agencies.

Example 2) Infrastructure for fossil fuel use is partly tax payer funded, while infrastructure for more economically friendly alternatives enjoys no subsidies. The gasoline tax (25 cents per gallon or so) pays for only a small fraction of upkeep costs for our roads, with taxpayers footing the rest of the bill. Alternatives such as light rail enjoy no such subsidies.

This is madness. Ecologically friendly solutions will arise on their own accord if government takes its enormous heel off of them.

Well I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, but I do know that without the clear intent to reach a destination it is impossible to get there.

To throw government "of by and for the People" out of the mix is deny ourselves the most powerful tool available to lead the way to that destination.

 

[Sunni Man]

"But it takes heavy fossil fuels to maintain an industrial base" What does that mean specifically? What is a heavy fossil fuel? Deisel?

Kerosine and vasoline are very light and clean lubricants made from fossil fuels.

Thick grease and tars would be examples of heavy lubricants need by machinery.

 

[wihosa]

Kerosine and vasoline are very light and clean lubricants made from fossil fuels.

Thick grease and tars would be examples of heavy lubricants need by machinery.

Lubricants are not fuels. Petrolium is not neccessarily fuel. I think you're getting you terms mixed up.

 

[Sunni Man]

Oil is a fossil fuel.

Both gasoline and grease are made from oil.

The difference is in how you refine it.

 

[wihosa]

Oil is a fossil fuel.

Both gasoline and grease are made from oil.

The difference is in how you refine it.

Oil canbe a fuel but regardless, how does the need for lubricants preclude converting to non-fossil fuels?

 

[Sunni Man]

Oil canbe a fuel but regardless, how does the need for lubricants preclude converting to non-fossil fuels?

You would have to come up with a synthetic lubricants with the same fossil fuel lubricating properties to replace the oil based ones.

They have done that with cars. Mobile 1 is an example of a synthetic oil, but it costs twice as much as conventional motor oil.

 

[Denny Crane]

Even if it wasn't doable in 10 years at least we would be ontrack to accomplish it at some point, hopefully within 15-20 years. I've been reading a lot lately about geothermal energy sources and came across this site which uses it along with other fossil-free sources.

Colorado Creating US’s First Fossil Fuel-Free Community

EcoGeek - Technology for the Environment

 

[wihosa]

You would have to come up with a synthetic lubricants with the same fossil fuel lubricating properties to replace the oil based ones.

They have done that with cars. Mobile 1 is an example of a synthetic oil, but it costs twice as much as conventional motor oil.

? Why couldn't we continue to use petrolium based lubricants?

 

[Sunni Man]

The title of this thread was "Fossil Fuel free in 10 years".

I was just showing that it isn't possible.

 

[wihosa]

Even if it wasn't doable in 10 years at least we would be ontrack to accomplish it at some point, hopefully within 15-20 years. I've been reading a lot lately about geothermal energy sources and came across this site which uses it along with other fossil-free sources.

Colorado Creating US’s First Fossil Fuel-Free Community

EcoGeek - Technology for the Environment

The potential of geo-thermal power generation is quite viable but I would lower it on the priority list because of the centralized, large investment nature of it. I'm not as interested in power production which lends itself to price manipulation. The de-centralized nature of wind and PV would allow typical citizens to get into the power production game.

 

[wihosa]

The title of this thread was "Fossil free in 10 years".

I was just showing that it isn't possible.

No, the title is Fossil Fuel Free in Ten Years

And you haven't shown that it is not possible.

 

[Sunni Man]

Yea, Ok, you win.

In ten years we can shut down oil drilling, production, and refineries.