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I found the bit about his mental state:
Hasan Charged With 13 Counts of Murder | Online NewsHour | Nov. 12, 2009 | PBSNew reports emerged Thursday about Hasan's mental state, which was allegedly questioned by military officials at Walter Reed Army Medical Center long before Hasan was ever sent to Fort Hood to serve as a psychiatrist.
National Public Radio reported that starting in the spring of 2008, key officials at Walter Reed and the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences held meetings and conversations about Hasan, whose behavior had grown increasingly erratic and unpredictable.
"Put it this way," said one official to NPR, "everybody felt that if you were deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, you would not want Nidal Hasan in your foxhole."
and the next two paragraphs:
Eventually the conversation turned to Hasan's mental state and authorities began to wonder if he was "psychotic."
No action was taken, however, in part because of the lengthy bureaucratic process involved with expelling doctors and also because military officials wanted to avoid the appearance of anti-Muslim prejudice, according to NPR. He was eventually shipped to Killeen, Texas....
There are a lot of people who have some 'splainin' to do.
Yes, yes they do.
I saw an interview with her yesterday...Funny she didn't mention that.
Maybe everything happened so fast that no one was sure who shot who.
I found the bit about his mental state:
Hasan Charged With 13 Counts of Murder | Online NewsHour | Nov. 12, 2009 | PBS
and the next two paragraphs:
Eventually the conversation turned to Hasan's mental state and authorities began to wonder if he was "psychotic."
No action was taken, however, in part because of the lengthy bureaucratic process involved with expelling doctors and also because military officials wanted to avoid the appearance of anti-Muslim prejudice, according to NPR. He was eventually shipped to Killeen, Texas....
I don't understand their reasoning. Wasn't Hassan actively trying to get the hell out? How could they appear anti-Muslim if he they were giving him what he wanted? Or do I have my time table mixed up?
and the next two paragraphs:
I don't understand their reasoning. Wasn't Hassan actively trying to get the hell out? How could they appear anti-Muslim if he they were giving him what he wanted? Or do I have my time table mixed up?
I think their reluctance to let him out is that they sent him through medical school - pretty big investment. I don't think they want to spend that kinda money on a guy only to have him flake out on his end of the deal. Maybe they thought he was just trying to use them to get his degree, bolt on them, and open up his profitable private practice.
and the next two paragraphs:
I don't understand their reasoning. Wasn't Hassan actively trying to get the hell out? How could they appear anti-Muslim if he they were giving him what he wanted? Or do I have my time table mixed up?
I think their reluctance to let him out is that they sent him through medical school - pretty big investment. I don't think they want to spend that kinda money on a guy only to have him flake out on his end of the deal. Maybe they thought he was just trying to use them to get his degree, bolt on them, and open up his profitable private practice.
I found the bit about his mental state:
Hasan Charged With 13 Counts of Murder | Online NewsHour | Nov. 12, 2009 | PBS
and the next two paragraphs:
Eventually the conversation turned to Hasan's mental state and authorities began to wonder if he was "psychotic."
No action was taken, however, in part because of the lengthy bureaucratic process involved with expelling doctors and also because military officials wanted to avoid the appearance of anti-Muslim prejudice, according to NPR. He was eventually shipped to Killeen, Texas....
I don't understand their reasoning. Wasn't Hassan actively trying to get the hell out? How could they appear anti-Muslim if he they were giving him what he wanted? Or do I have my time table mixed up?
As for the terrorism issue, I would contend that if the target is military, it isn't terrorism.
In defining it as 'non-military', I think the key is if the attacker and the target are engaged in combat of any sort. A military base can certainly be the target of a terrorist attack.
How do you define combat?
Army sought ways to channel Hasan's absorption with Islam
Walter Reed psychiatrists ordered him to attend university lectures on religion
By Ann Scott Tyson and Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, November 12, 2009
Army psychiatrists at Walter Reed Army Medical Center who supervised Maj. Nidal M. Hasan's work as a psychiatric fellow tried to turn his growing preoccupation with religion and war into something productive by ordering him to attend a university lecture series on Islam, the Middle East and terrorism, according to a Walter Reed staff member familiar with Hasan's medical training.
The psychiatric staff at Walter Reed did not discuss kicking him out of the service, according to the staff member. In fact, Hasan was initially considered a good medical school candidate because he had spent time as an enlisted soldier and had cared for his siblings after his parents died, both attributes that supervisors believed indicated he had a healthy work ethic.
An Army official also said that Hasan, who is believed to have killed 13 people last week at Fort Hood, Tex., did not formally seek to leave the military as a conscientious objector or for any other reason. It is unclear whether Hasan, whose aunt has said he sought to leave the military, made informal efforts to leave through contacts with his immediate superiors, and if so how his chain of command at lower levels might have responded to such efforts.
But any formal request by Hasan to separate early would have been submitted to the Department of the Army, according to the official, who saw Hasan's file before it was recently sealed by Army investigators. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly....
I found the bit about his mental state:
Hasan Charged With 13 Counts of Murder | Online NewsHour | Nov. 12, 2009 | PBSNew reports emerged Thursday about Hasan's mental state, which was allegedly questioned by military officials at Walter Reed Army Medical Center long before Hasan was ever sent to Fort Hood to serve as a psychiatrist.
National Public Radio reported that starting in the spring of 2008, key officials at Walter Reed and the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences held meetings and conversations about Hasan, whose behavior had grown increasingly erratic and unpredictable.
"Put it this way," said one official to NPR, "everybody felt that if you were deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan, you would not want Nidal Hasan in your foxhole."
Found it:
washingtonpost.com
Army sought ways to channel Hasan's absorption with Islam
Walter Reed psychiatrists ordered him to attend university lectures on religion
By Ann Scott Tyson and Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, November 12, 2009
Army psychiatrists at Walter Reed Army Medical Center who supervised Maj. Nidal M. Hasan's work as a psychiatric fellow tried to turn his growing preoccupation with religion and war into something productive by ordering him to attend a university lecture series on Islam, the Middle East and terrorism, according to a Walter Reed staff member familiar with Hasan's medical training.
The psychiatric staff at Walter Reed did not discuss kicking him out of the service, according to the staff member. In fact, Hasan was initially considered a good medical school candidate because he had spent time as an enlisted soldier and had cared for his siblings after his parents died, both attributes that supervisors believed indicated he had a healthy work ethic.
An Army official also said that Hasan, who is believed to have killed 13 people last week at Fort Hood, Tex., did not formally seek to leave the military as a conscientious objector or for any other reason. It is unclear whether Hasan, whose aunt has said he sought to leave the military, made informal efforts to leave through contacts with his immediate superiors, and if so how his chain of command at lower levels might have responded to such efforts.
But any formal request by Hasan to separate early would have been submitted to the Department of the Army, according to the official, who saw Hasan's file before it was recently sealed by Army investigators. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly....
I don't understand their reasoning. Wasn't Hassan actively trying to get the hell out? How could they appear anti-Muslim if he they were giving him what he wanted? Or do I have my time table mixed up?
I think their reluctance to let him out is that they sent him through medical school - pretty big investment. I don't think they want to spend that kinda money on a guy only to have him flake out on his end of the deal. Maybe they thought he was just trying to use them to get his degree, bolt on them, and open up his profitable private practice.
Were they reluctant to let him out? I don't know if Hassan was trying to get out. Art15 might be correct about that. If he was, they should have let him out and gotten him to pay them back for his education.
I think their reluctance to let him out is that they sent him through medical school - pretty big investment. I don't think they want to spend that kinda money on a guy only to have him flake out on his end of the deal. Maybe they thought he was just trying to use them to get his degree, bolt on them, and open up his profitable private practice.
Were they reluctant to let him out? I don't know if Hassan was trying to get out. Art15 might be correct about that. If he was, they should have let him out and gotten him to pay them back for his education.
He'd hired an attorney to get him discharged. I want to say that was in the fall of '08?
Were they reluctant to let him out? I don't know if Hassan was trying to get out. Art15 might be correct about that. If he was, they should have let him out and gotten him to pay them back for his education.
He'd hired an attorney to get him discharged. I want to say that was in the fall of '08?
According to the post above yours, he never took any formal steps to get out. I'm guessing he knew he'd be on the hook for the cost of his education.
And to get back to the definition of terrorism, I see what you mean, but that isn't the common definition of the term. I'm always reluctant to change definitions to fit specific circumstances. Perhaps there's nothing different about this than any other loon who gets on a water tower and starts shooting; or someone who "goes postal", or someone like the kids at columbine or VA Tech.
I remember reading that, too. This is really confusing.I think their reluctance to let him out is that they sent him through medical school - pretty big investment. I don't think they want to spend that kinda money on a guy only to have him flake out on his end of the deal. Maybe they thought he was just trying to use them to get his degree, bolt on them, and open up his profitable private practice.
Were they reluctant to let him out? I don't know if Hassan was trying to get out. Art15 might be correct about that. If he was, they should have let him out and gotten him to pay them back for his education.
He'd hired an attorney to get him discharged. I want to say that was in the fall of '08?
Found it:
washingtonpost.com
Army sought ways to channel Hasan's absorption with Islam
Walter Reed psychiatrists ordered him to attend university lectures on religion
By Ann Scott Tyson and Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, November 12, 2009
Army psychiatrists at Walter Reed Army Medical Center who supervised Maj. Nidal M. Hasan's work as a psychiatric fellow tried to turn his growing preoccupation with religion and war into something productive by ordering him to attend a university lecture series on Islam, the Middle East and terrorism, according to a Walter Reed staff member familiar with Hasan's medical training.
The psychiatric staff at Walter Reed did not discuss kicking him out of the service, according to the staff member. In fact, Hasan was initially considered a good medical school candidate because he had spent time as an enlisted soldier and had cared for his siblings after his parents died, both attributes that supervisors believed indicated he had a healthy work ethic.
An Army official also said that Hasan, who is believed to have killed 13 people last week at Fort Hood, Tex., did not formally seek to leave the military as a conscientious objector or for any other reason. It is unclear whether Hasan, whose aunt has said he sought to leave the military, made informal efforts to leave through contacts with his immediate superiors, and if so how his chain of command at lower levels might have responded to such efforts.
But any formal request by Hasan to separate early would have been submitted to the Department of the Army, according to the official, who saw Hasan's file before it was recently sealed by Army investigators. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly....
Thanks Annie. This is all still very confusing. In one article we have people saying that kicking him out wasn't discussed but we have another one saying that they didn't want to kick him out because of the bureaucratic process and fears of appearing anti-Muslim.
...The concerns about Hasan's performance and religious views were shared with other military officials considering his assignment after he finished his medical training, and the consensus was to send the 39-year-old psychiatrist to Fort Hood, the official said.
Fort Hood, one of the country's largest military installations, was considered the best assignment for Hasan because other doctors could handle the workload if he continued to perform poorly and his superiors could document any continued behavior problems, the official said.
The group saw no evidence that Hasan was violent or a threat. It was more that he repeatedly referred to his strong religious views in discussions with classmates, his superiors and even in his research work, the official said. His behavior, while at times perceived as intense and combative, was not unlike the zeal of others with strong religious views. But some doctors and staff were concerned that their unfamiliarity with the Muslim faith would lead them to unfairly single out Hasan's behavior, the official said.
Some in the group questioned Hasan's sympathies as an Army psychiatrist, whether he would be more aligned with Muslims fighting U.S. troops. And there was some concern about whether he should continue to serve in the military, the official said.
Sharon Willis, a spokeswoman for the Uniformed Services University, referred questions Wednesday about Hasan to his lawyer. The attorney, John Galligan of Belton, Texas, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment.
The revelations about the concerns that Hasan's superiors had before sending him to Fort Hood come amid a growing debate over what warning signs the military and law enforcement officials might have missed before last week's massacre.
A joint terrorism task force overseen by the FBI learned late last year of Hasan's repeated contact with a radical Muslim cleric who encouraged Muslims to kill U.S. troops in Iraq.
The FBI said in a statement late Wednesday that the task force did not refer early information about Hasan to superiors because it concluded he wasn't linked to terrorism.
The doctors and staff who discussed concerns about Hasan had several group conversations about him that started in early 2008 during regular monthly meetings and ended as he was finishing a fellowship in disaster and preventive psychology this summer, the official familiar with the discussions said.
They saw no signs of mental problems, no risk factors that would predict violent behavior. And the group discussed other factors that suggested Hasan would continue to thrive in the military, factors that mitigated their concerns, the official said.
According to the official, records reviewed by Hasan's superiors described nearly 20 years of military service, including nearly eight years as an enlisted soldier; completion of three rigorous medical school programs, albeit as a student the group characterized in their discussions as mediocre; his resilience after the deaths of his parents early in his medical education, and an otherwise polite and gentle nature when not discussing religion.
The Army has said it has no record of enlisted service for Hasan, instead noting that his military service began when he started the medical school program in 1997.
The official said the group became increasingly concerned about Hasan's religious views after he completed two research projects that took a decidedly religious tone one at the end of his residency at Walter Reed that advocated allowing Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars against other Muslims, and the other as he pursued his master's degree in public health that discussed religious conflicts for Muslim U.S. soldiers.
Some in the group shared their experiences with Hasan, all telling similar stories about repeated instances when he made religion an issue.
Officials involved at various times in the meetings about Hasan included John Bradley, Walter Reed's chief of psychiatry; Scott Moran, Walter Reed's psychiatric residency program director; Robert Ursano, chairman of the Uniformed Services University's psychiatry department; Charles Engel, the university's assistant chair of psychiatry, and David Benedek, an associate professor of psychiatry at the university.
Those officials either declined to comment or did not return telephone calls and e-mails seeking comment Wednesday.
Meanwhile, the Pentagon has found no evidence that Hasan formally sought release from the Army as a conscientious objector or for any other reason, two senior military officials told The Associated Press. Family members have said he wanted to get out of the Army and had sought legal advice, suggesting that Hasan's anxiety as a Muslim over his pending deployment overseas might have been a factor in the deadly rampage.
Hasan had complained privately to colleagues that he was harassed for his religion and that he wanted to get out of the Army. But there is no record of Hasan filing a complaint with his chain of command regarding any harassment he may have suffered for being Muslim or any record of him formally seeking release from the military, the officials told the AP.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the case is under investigation.
Another Army official, Lt. Col. George Wright, said Wednesday that Hasan likely would have had to commit to another year in the military when he was transferred to Fort Hood earlier this summer. It is common for an officer to incur a one-year service extension when they receive a transfer to another post.
I think their reluctance to let him out is that they sent him through medical school - pretty big investment. I don't think they want to spend that kinda money on a guy only to have him flake out on his end of the deal. Maybe they thought he was just trying to use them to get his degree, bolt on them, and open up his profitable private practice.
Were they reluctant to let him out? I don't know if Hassan was trying to get out. Art15 might be correct about that. If he was, they should have let him out and gotten him to pay them back for his education.
He'd hired an attorney to get him discharged. I want to say that was in the fall of '08?
Hasan prober feared backlash
By JOHN DOYLE in Fort Hood, Texas, and CHUCK BENNETT in NY
Last Updated: 10:26 AM, November 12, 2009
Posted: 3:11 AM, November 12, 2009
An Army investigator claimed he would have been "crucified" if he blew the whistle on Fort Hood killer Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's correspondence with a Yemeni jihadist.
"Had we launched an investigation of Hasan, we'd have been crucified," one government investigator told Fox News.
He said investigators feared that a probe into Hasan's embrace of militant Islam could be viewed as a violation of his First Amendment freedoms of religion and speech.
Since Hasan's rampage against unarmed troops and civilians at the Fort Hood deployment center, which left 13 dead and 29 injured, the FBI and Pentagon have been pointing fingers over who should have seen it coming.
An FBI counter-terrorism task force intercepted e-mails that Hasan, 39, wrote to Anwar Aulaqi, a Yemen-based imam who is a propagandist for al Qaeda.
"[Hasan] appeared to be at a moral impasse, a moral dilemma who was reaching out for advice," the investigator told Fox of the e-mails.
The startling new revelation counters previous reports that Hasan's 10 to 20 e-mails to Aulaqi were merely for Hasan's research as a psychiatrist studying war stress.
Pentagon officials also said Hasan never formally asked for an early discharge even though his family said he hired an attorney to get him out of deployment to Afghanistan.
Separately, Yemen authorities now say they've lost track of Aulaqi, who praised Hasan as a "hero" on his jihadist Web site.
