FORT HOOD: Now that I took Obama's advice and didn't jump to conclusions I think.....

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I feel this may have actually been a terrorist attack. I've had several days now to process all the different facts and opinions in relation to fort hood and in light of everything I think this guy actually intended to use violence for a political purpose to intimidate his fellow US soldiers that were deploying to fight against people of Muslim faith.

I know I know I was bitching and moaning at all of you who were saying this the day it happened and the day after but I didn't like how everyone just immediately jumped to that conclusion.

I've had time to look at what happened and look at the stuff the shooter actually said and posted on-line and it does seem like "terrorism" For purposes of this discussion I will include the definition of terrorism below from dictionary.com

1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorizing.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way, I'm not saying he did it because he was a Muslim. I still hold to my position that he did this because he is a psychopathic a-hole. However, it does appear to be at the least politically (internally within the base) motivated shooting that was done to make a statement and instill fear into people.

 

[Mr. Capitalism]

Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way, I'm not saying he did it because he was a Muslim. I still hold to my position that he did this because he is a psychopathic a-hole. However, it does appear to be at the least politically (internally within the base) motivated shooting that was done to make a statement and instill fear into people.

I think that is a fair statement. I think the idea of terrorism has been used to talk more about a coordinated effort than your definition (also a valid one). Certainly I think this guy was nuts and was either inspired by, or used as justification, the political/religious reasons. Though I doubt very seriously this was any plan beyond this one guy.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way, I'm not saying he did it because he was a Muslim. I still hold to my position that he did this because he is a psychopathic a-hole. However, it does appear to be at the least politically (internally within the base) motivated shooting that was done to make a statement and instill fear into people.

I think that is a fair statement. I think the idea of terrorism has been used to talk more about a coordinated effort than your definition (also a valid one). Certainly I think this guy was nuts and was either inspired by, or used as justification, the political/religious reasons. Though I doubt very seriously this was any plan beyond this one guy.

I agree.

I do think he planned to do this and didn't just "snap" but I dont think he was directed by al-quaeda or some other terrorist network.

 

[Navy1960]

You know I posted something earlier on this topic and was about the stories being floated around that he somehow did this because he wanted out of the Military because he didn't want to fight his fellow Muslims. Here is something to consider.

Article 88—Contempt toward officials

“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Maximum punishment.

Dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.


One more thing, once this man's obligation was served if the Military was so abhorant to his belif structure he could have resigned his commission. It is worth noting though that the best thing to say in all cases like this is that the US Military is a professional Military and as such requries everyone to join knowing what it is the Military does and where they may be called upon to go.

 

[nodoginnafight]

It's not an act of terrorism. It MAY wind up being the act of a terrorist - but THIS was not an act of terrorism.
By definition.

("2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;"

U.S. Law Definition of Terrorism

What he did was a reprehensible, indefensible act. But every deplorable act isn't terrorim.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It's not an act of terrorism. It MAY wind up being the act of a terrorist - but THIS was not an act of terrorism.
By definition.

("2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;"

U.S. Law Definition of Terrorism

What he did was a reprehensible, indefensible act. But every deplorable act isn't terrorim.

Oh in that defintion i think you are right. I would need one bit of clarification....if the soldiers he was shooting at weren't actively in the field fighting does that make them non-combatants?

 

[nodoginnafight]

It's not an act of terrorism. It MAY wind up being the act of a terrorist - but THIS was not an act of terrorism.
By definition.

("2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;"

U.S. Law Definition of Terrorism

What he did was a reprehensible, indefensible act. But every deplorable act isn't terrorim.

Oh in that defintion i think you are right. I would need one bit of clarification....if the soldiers he was shooting at weren't actively in the field fighting does that make them non-combatants?

I think that's a good point and I think there's also some mud in the water over contractors. And I'm sure lawyers could do a terrific job of spinning that muddy water into a cloud if it suited their purposes.

But as despicable and deplorable as I find the act - I have to think that a U.S. Military base and everyone on that base would have to be viewed as a legitimate military target.

Having said that .... fry the bastard (and I'm not even a death penalty supporter). But folks in Texas sure are. This guy better hope he winds up in a military court because civilian courts in Texas shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[AllieBaba]

Don't take what I'm saying the wrong way, I'm not saying he did it because he was a Muslim. I still hold to my position that he did this because he is a psychopathic a-hole. However, it does appear to be at the least politically (internally within the base) motivated shooting that was done to make a statement and instill fear into people.

I think that is a fair statement. I think the idea of terrorism has been used to talk more about a coordinated effort than your definition (also a valid one). Certainly I think this guy was nuts and was either inspired by, or used as justification, the political/religious reasons. Though I doubt very seriously this was any plan beyond this one guy.

What do you people think is the defining characteristic of terrorism is?

It's a call out to individuals to act independently to reach a collective goal. Terrorism is, by definition, a collection of indpendently acting people who follow a common code. They are not typically groups who gather to work in an organized manner with their leaders, though that happens as well. It's what makes them so difficult to deal with because decent human beings don't work that way.

The Imans put out the call for ALL Muslims to act against us. So just because this guy wasn't working "with" three of four buddies does not mean it's not terrorism or even an act which is not typical.

And the fact that people are more willing to attirubute this brutish behavior to GUN CONTROL, or our imagined SUPPRESSION of Muslims is nauseating. It's a TERRORIST ACT. He wanted to do this for Islam. He was in contact with a radical iman. He yelled Alahu Akbar as he slaughtered innocents. It's terrorism. And it's here to stay until the bleeding hearts quit burying their heads, making excuses, and refusing to meet it head on.

 

[saveliberty]

He was a terrorist. Terrorist by definition commit terrorism. He was attempting to protect his group from actions by another group. He didn't target his immediate superiors, but random targets. He had given it thought well in advance.

Obama doesn't want this labeled a terrorist act, because it would be the first since 9/11. He should have held Muslim leaders up to curbing these activities. Harboring them in your mosque doesn't sound like a very strong condemnation.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

PTSD?? I can't believe the MSM is still pushing that farce. What a scam.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I have to think that a U.S. Military base and everyone on that base would have to be viewed as a legitimate military target.

So any jihadi wannabe gets a hair up his ass one day and is "legitimate" in attacking a military installation? Then would not be considered a terrorist...just a whacko nutjob? So by your definition the 4 hijackers who attacked the Pentagon on 9/11 were justified in attacking the Pentagon because it was a "legitimate military target" and shouldn't be considered terrorists?

 

[nodoginnafight]

What do you people think is the defining characteristic of terrorism is?

There are several:

"2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents..."

U.S. Law Definition of Terrorism

is the citation of U.S. Law that clearly (imho) disqualifies this act as an act of terrorism.

Don't get me wrong - it was a deplorable act that is worthy of the harshest penalty we can impose. But it wasn't and act of terrorism.

Even if the guy is a "terrorist" by virtue of his association with a terrorist organization (which may or may not prove to be the case) THIS act doesn't qualify as an act of terrorism.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Our Government hasn't learned anything from 911. That should be both sad and shocking to all Americans. The FBI & CIA knew all about this cretin yet chose to do nothing. PTSD?? Who the H*ll is buying that chit? Unfortunately the fix is already in on this one. The cover-up has already begun. We will never get the truth on this one in my opinion. How sad.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I have to think that a U.S. Military base and everyone on that base would have to be viewed as a legitimate military target.

So any jihadi wannabe gets a hair up his ass one day and is "legitimate" in attacking a military installation? Then would not be considered a terrorist...just a whacko nutjob? So by your definition the 4 hijackers who attacked the Pentagon on 9/11 were justified in attacking the Pentagon because it was a "legitimate military target" and shouldn't be considered terrorists?

If they attack a military target - they are an enemy combatant and if it's a U.S. Military target then they deserved to get smoked post haste.

In the Pentagon attack the target was a legitimate military target but the fact that they used a plane loaded with civilians as their "bomb" means what they did fits the definition of terrorism.

 

[nodoginnafight]

When folks go around flinging out the word terrorist and terrorism indiscriminately, it has the deliterious effect.

EVERY despicable act does not fit the defition of terrorism - doesn't mean we should not punish it every bit as severely - it just means it doesn't fit the defition of terrorism.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I have to think that a U.S. Military base and everyone on that base would have to be viewed as a legitimate military target.

So any jihadi wannabe gets a hair up his ass one day and is "legitimate" in attacking a military installation? Then would not be considered a terrorist...just a whacko nutjob? So by your definition the 4 hijackers who attacked the Pentagon on 9/11 were justified in attacking the Pentagon because it was a "legitimate military target" and shouldn't be considered terrorists?

If they attack a military target - they are an enemy combatant and if it's a U.S. Military target then they deserved to get smoked post haste.

In the Pentagon attack the target was a legitimate military target but the fact that they used a plane loaded with civilians as their "bomb" means what they did fits the definition of terrorism.

So if they hijacked a cargo plane and flew it into the Pentagon it would not be considered an act of terrorism?

 

[Annie]

I have to think that a U.S. Military base and everyone on that base would have to be viewed as a legitimate military target.

So any jihadi wannabe gets a hair up his ass one day and is "legitimate" in attacking a military installation? Then would not be considered a terrorist...just a whacko nutjob? So by your definition the 4 hijackers who attacked the Pentagon on 9/11 were justified in attacking the Pentagon because it was a "legitimate military target" and shouldn't be considered terrorists?

If they attack a military target - they are an enemy combatant and if it's a U.S. Military target then they deserved to get smoked post haste.

In the Pentagon attack the target was a legitimate military target but the fact that they used a plane loaded with civilians as their "bomb" means what they did fits the definition of terrorism.

So if they hijacked a cargo plane and flew it into the Pentagon it would not be considered an act of terrorism?

Actually it was an 'act of war', but then again, so was the planes into WTC.

I don't know if this has been mentioned:

Fort Hood shootings suspect may have wired money to Pakistan | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News

Fort Hood shootings suspect may have wired money to Pakistan
09:05 AM CST on Thursday, November 12, 2009

By DAVE MICHAELS / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]
WASHINGTON – Authorities have been examining whether Fort Hood massacre suspect Nidal Malik Hasan wired money to Pakistan in recent months, an action that one senior lawmaker said would raise serious questions about Hasan's possible connections to militant Islamic groups.


Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., said sources "outside of the [intelligence] community" learned about Hasan's possible connections to the Asian country, which faces a massive Islamist insurgency and is widely believed to be Osama bin Laden's hiding place...

 

[nodoginnafight]

I have to think that a U.S. Military base and everyone on that base would have to be viewed as a legitimate military target.

So any jihadi wannabe gets a hair up his ass one day and is "legitimate" in attacking a military installation? Then would not be considered a terrorist...just a whacko nutjob? So by your definition the 4 hijackers who attacked the Pentagon on 9/11 were justified in attacking the Pentagon because it was a "legitimate military target" and shouldn't be considered terrorists?

If they attack a military target - they are an enemy combatant and if it's a U.S. Military target then they deserved to get smoked post haste.

In the Pentagon attack the target was a legitimate military target but the fact that they used a plane loaded with civilians as their "bomb" means what they did fits the definition of terrorism.

So if they hijacked a cargo plane and flew it into the Pentagon it would not be considered an act of terrorism?

you tell me - is it a civilian plane? Are the crew civilians? Are any civilians targeted for death in the act?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Actually it was an 'act of war', but then again, so was the planes into WTC.

I have to disagree - both were acts of terrorism.

(2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;
U.S. Law Definition of Terrorism

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

NoDog does raise some interesting questions.

I'm re-evaluating my opinion as I read all of everyone's posts. I still feel like this guy committed an act of terrorism in the general sense of the word but from reading NoDog's link to the US legal definition of terrorism this act doesn't fit it.

We all may not be able to agree on that but I know there is one thing we can all agree on....this shooter was at best a traitor to our country.