Former Military Chief: Iraq War Was A 'Failure' That Helped Create ISIS

Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
Wrong.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.

Wrong. The biggest blunder was the invasion of Iraq to begin with.
Followed by disbanding the Iraqi Army.

Isnt ISIS made up of a bunch of Sunni ex Iraqi Army officers and soldiers?

What's with this idiocy that the Iraqi army should never have been disbanded.

Seriously. Should we have kept the Nazi army together? Or the Japanese army together?

Who came up with this bloody stupid talking point?
 
Wrong. The biggest blunder was the invasion of Iraq to begin with.
It wasn't a blunder. It was a crime.

Followed by disbanding the Iraqi Army.
That was an extension of the crime, which was intended dominance of the Iraqi oil fields and total termination of any threat to Saudi Arabia by the Iraqi military.

Isnt ISIS made up of a bunch of Sunni ex Iraqi Army officers and soldiers?
Yes.

Now they have the ex officers. But the guy that heads up the original ISIS military in Syria for Baghdadi and who basically conquered the territories they hold is a Chechen we fucking trained in Georgia.

I've been very busy since the garden ended.

:)

I've learned a lot and I'm getting more pissed off daily at what our western governments have been doing.
 
565ca1781b0000810029ec45.jpeg


"We strategically marched in the wrong direction."

Retired Lt. General Michael Flynn, the former U.S. special forces chief in Iraq and Afghanistan who was the country's highest ranking military intelligence official, says that the George W. Bush administration's Iraq war was a tremendous blunder that helped to create the self-proclaimed Islamic State, or ISIS.

"It was a huge error," Flynn said about the Iraq war in a detailed interview with German newspaper Der Spiegel published Sunday.

"As brutal as Saddam Hussein was, it was a mistake to just eliminate him," Flynn went on to say. "The same is true for Moammar Gadhafi and for Libya, which is now a failed state. The historic lesson is that it was a strategic failure to go into Iraq. History will not be and should not be kind with that decision."

When told by Der Spiegel reporters Matthias Gebauer and Holger Stark that the Islamic State would not "be where it is now without the fall of Baghdad," Flynn, without reservations, said: "Yes, absolutely."

Read the entire interview here.

Former Military Chief: Iraq War Was A 'Failure' That Helped Create ISIS

Ex-US Intelligence Chief on Islamic State's Rise: 'We Were Too Dumb' - SPIEGEL ONLINE

That fits with what many of us already know - and accept as fact.
Would've, could've... Should've
 
Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
Wrong.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
Yes, you have to have no brains to think demobilizing the Iraqi army was a good idea. In fact, that was when I realized our Commander in Chief was not pretending to be stupid as an act to bond with the common man, he actually IS stupid.

We kept the German, Italian, and Japanese armies mobilized after WWII. For years. This served to stabilize those countries, and we should have used those models in Iraq.

Instead, Bush had some idiotic dream that Iraq was going to become a libertarian paradise overnight, and the Iraqi army went home with their weapons and became the bulk of the insurgency.
Do you think that the area would not have been destabilized had Bush left the army in place?


I doubt that would have been the case to be honest. The real mistake is that he removed the stable government there in an area that was not likely to re-establish such. The travesty is that this is a partisan bitching contest and Obama is trying to do the exact same thing. Half the electorate demands that Bush was a disaster for Iraq and ignores Obama, the other half demands that Obama is a disaster for Libya but refuses to acknowledge Bush's role in ISIL.

The only thing we can be sure of in that this environment is not creating the much needed change for the US FP that must happen.
 
What restrictions ?

The ones which prevent the wholesale slaughter of innocents.


That's exactly what the right wants. We destroyed Iraq - for no reason and now the right wants to do the same in just about every other ME country.

How many times have we read some dunderhead here saying we should "bomb ISIL"? What in the world are they thinking?

Nothing. Nothing at all.
That's exactly what the right wants. We destroyed Iraq - for no reason and now the right wants to do the same in just about every other ME country.
And yet, somehow it escapes you that Obama has aided in the destruction of Libya, Syria and Yemen, while the left has sat back and made excuses for 7 years. Get down off your high horse.
 
Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
Wrong.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
Yes, you have to have no brains to think demobilizing the Iraqi army was a good idea. In fact, that was when I realized our Commander in Chief was not pretending to be stupid as an act to bond with the common man, he actually IS stupid.

We kept the German, Italian, and Japanese armies mobilized after WWII. For years. This served to stabilize those countries, and we should have used those models in Iraq.

Instead, Bush had some idiotic dream that Iraq was going to become a libertarian paradise overnight, and the Iraqi army went home with their weapons and became the bulk of the insurgency.
Do you think that the area would not have been destabilized had Bush left the army in place?


I doubt that would have been the case to be honest. The real mistake is that he removed the stable government there in an area that was not likely to re-establish such. The travesty is that this is a partisan bitching contest and Obama is trying to do the exact same thing. Half the electorate demands that Bush was a disaster for Iraq and ignores Obama, the other half demands that Obama is a disaster for Libya but refuses to acknowledge Bush's role in ISIL.

The only thing we can be sure of in that this environment is not creating the much needed change for the US FP that must happen.

Check out the Red Line and the Rat Line. Cripes this bullshit game we've been playing in the Middle East goes back to freaking Eisenhower. And when you get right down to the nitty gritty it makes total sense for the CIA and the State Department to keep a hornets nest going so they can all keep their freaking jobs.
 
What restrictions ?

The ones which prevent the wholesale slaughter of innocents.


That's exactly what the right wants. We destroyed Iraq - for no reason and now the right wants to do the same in just about every other ME country.

How many times have we read some dunderhead here saying we should "bomb ISIL"? What in the world are they thinking?

Nothing. Nothing at all.
That's exactly what the right wants. We destroyed Iraq - for no reason and now the right wants to do the same in just about every other ME country.
And yet, somehow it escapes you that Obama has aided in the destruction of Libya, Syria and Yemen, while the left has sat back and made excuses for 7 years. Get down off your high horse.

Ditto Egypt. But they were smart enough to bail on Morsi when he appointed the terrorist who ordered the Luxor massacre as Governor of that state.

But Obama despite the failures is still determined to put the Muslim Brotherhood in charge of Syria.
 
565ca1781b0000810029ec45.jpeg


"We strategically marched in the wrong direction."

Retired Lt. General Michael Flynn, the former U.S. special forces chief in Iraq and Afghanistan who was the country's highest ranking military intelligence official, says that the George W. Bush administration's Iraq war was a tremendous blunder that helped to create the self-proclaimed Islamic State, or ISIS.

"It was a huge error," Flynn said about the Iraq war in a detailed interview with German newspaper Der Spiegel published Sunday.

"As brutal as Saddam Hussein was, it was a mistake to just eliminate him," Flynn went on to say. "The same is true for Moammar Gadhafi and for Libya, which is now a failed state. The historic lesson is that it was a strategic failure to go into Iraq. History will not be and should not be kind with that decision."

When told by Der Spiegel reporters Matthias Gebauer and Holger Stark that the Islamic State would not "be where it is now without the fall of Baghdad," Flynn, without reservations, said: "Yes, absolutely."

Read the entire interview here.

Former Military Chief: Iraq War Was A 'Failure' That Helped Create ISIS

Ex-US Intelligence Chief on Islamic State's Rise: 'We Were Too Dumb' - SPIEGEL ONLINE

That fits with what many of us already know - and accept as fact.

Naah. Its just what you want to accept as fact and if Bush had been a Dem you wouldn't be saying word one.

Another lamo thread brought to you by ShittingBull. King/Queen/It of lamo threads. LMAO.
 
Why doesn't anyone get ISIS in the here and now?

I guess some do but most don't.

The Arab Spring bullshit was just a cover for handing over most of the ME to the MB. This should be a no brainer. And despite screwing up multiple countries that have had fairly secular governments albeit many with dictators, Obama and others are STILL trying to put the MB in Syria.
 
Why doesn't anyone get ISIS in the here and now?

I guess some do but most don't.

The Arab Spring bullshit was just a cover for handing over most of the ME to the MB. This should be a no brainer. And despite screwing up multiple countries that have had fairly secular governments albeit many with dictators, Obama and others are STILL trying to put the MB in Syria.
The Arab Spring began in Tunisia in 2010-2011...yet no Muslim Brotherhood was involved..
 
Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
Wrong.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
Yes, you have to have no brains to think demobilizing the Iraqi army was a good idea. In fact, that was when I realized our Commander in Chief was not pretending to be stupid as an act to bond with the common man, he actually IS stupid.

We kept the German, Italian, and Japanese armies mobilized after WWII. For years. This served to stabilize those countries, and we should have used those models in Iraq.

Instead, Bush had some idiotic dream that Iraq was going to become a libertarian paradise overnight, and the Iraqi army went home with their weapons and became the bulk of the insurgency.
Wrong, idiot.
We demobilized the Wehrmacht after WW2.
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1753/MR1753.ch2.pdf

We demobilized the Japanese army after WW2
Chapter 5: Demobilization and Disarmament of the Japanese Armed Forces

Bush was following precedent here. And he was correct.

Nope.

Following the unconditional surrender of the Wehrmacht, which went into effect on 8 May 1945, some Wehrmacht units remained active, either independently (e.g. in Norway), or under Allied command as police forces.

The Wermacht was not officially abolished until more than a year after VE Day.

As for Japan:

The terrific psychological tension was dissolved by the relatively simple formula of preserving the existing Japanese Government, and utilizing its normal agencies to effect the complicated processes of disarmament and demobilization.

The program for the accomplishment of this tremendous task was initiated under the provisions of several key directives in August-September 1945.

These precedents were not observed by Bush.
So you agree that we demobilized the German and Japanese army but somehow that means I'm still wrong.
Yeah, you just lost any credibility in this discussion.
 
Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
Wrong.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.

Wrong. The biggest blunder was the invasion of Iraq to begin with.
Followed by disbanding the Iraqi Army.

Isnt ISIS made up of a bunch of Sunni ex Iraqi Army officers and soldiers?

What's with this idiocy that the Iraqi army should never have been disbanded.

Seriously. Should we have kept the Nazi army together? Or the Japanese army together?

Who came up with this bloody stupid talking point?
It was G5000, the originator of much misinformationand stupidity.
He admits that we did in fact disband the Wehrmacht and the Japanese army but somehow they're different from Bush disbanding the Iraqi Army because, well, BOOSH.
 
Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
Wrong.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.

It wasn't really Bushes fault, the Iraqis and the UNSC force him to sign a new SOFA with Iraq before 2009. But the damage of the Civil war the occupation caused was already done and Iraq was split three ways.
 
Cue the exploding heads of the RWNJ'S.

Bush deserter-in-chief did not "Listen To The Generals" and invaded a country that was of no military threat.
 
Who came up with this bloody stupid talking point?

This guy.

Lt. Gen. Jay Garner, who had previously directed humanitarian efforts in the Kurdish areas of northern Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War, served as director of the Office for Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance (OHRA) following the American invasion of Iraq in March 2003. He and his office were replaced after only one month by L. Paul Bremer, III and the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA). "Essentially, I guess the first day I got to Baghdad, I was a lame duck,"

Interviews - Lt. Gen. Jay Garner (ret.) | The Lost Year In Iraq | FRONTLINE | PBS

Tommy Franks meets with his commanders April 16, a few days before you go in. He's telling his commanders … within 60 days, there will be an Iraqi government set up. What was you guys' opinion of that Washington and military expectation?

... [Franks] was always promised a large constabulary force from allies. He was promised by DoD or by the administration -- I'm not sure [which]. He was relying on me to bring back the Iraqi army, and we're talking about 250,000 soldiers.
 
Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
Wrong.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
Yes, you have to have no brains to think demobilizing the Iraqi army was a good idea. In fact, that was when I realized our Commander in Chief was not pretending to be stupid as an act to bond with the common man, he actually IS stupid.

We kept the German, Italian, and Japanese armies mobilized after WWII. For years. This served to stabilize those countries, and we should have used those models in Iraq.

Instead, Bush had some idiotic dream that Iraq was going to become a libertarian paradise overnight, and the Iraqi army went home with their weapons and became the bulk of the insurgency.
Wrong, idiot.
We demobilized the Wehrmacht after WW2.
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1753/MR1753.ch2.pdf

We demobilized the Japanese army after WW2
Chapter 5: Demobilization and Disarmament of the Japanese Armed Forces

Bush was following precedent here. And he was correct.

Nope.

Following the unconditional surrender of the Wehrmacht, which went into effect on 8 May 1945, some Wehrmacht units remained active, either independently (e.g. in Norway), or under Allied command as police forces.

The Wermacht was not officially abolished until more than a year after VE Day.

As for Japan:

The terrific psychological tension was dissolved by the relatively simple formula of preserving the existing Japanese Government, and utilizing its normal agencies to effect the complicated processes of disarmament and demobilization.

The program for the accomplishment of this tremendous task was initiated under the provisions of several key directives in August-September 1945.

These precedents were not observed by Bush.
So you agree that we demobilized the German and Japanese army but somehow that means I'm still wrong.
Yeah, you just lost any credibility in this discussion.

MacArthur had sufficient forces to administer Japan, a country who's citizens were completely demoralized. The allied zones of occupation were well supplied with soldiers as well and Germans wanted into the American Sector......Iraq, not the same cookie.
 

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