Forgiveness....

[Mr. P]

Forgiveness....

Explain that. What is it to you, what does it mean when "you" say, "I forgive you"?
How does it change your life?

Please leave God and Jesus out of this..I'm interested in what it means deep inside the human psyche.
If you can't leave God and Jesus out, you don't understand what I'm asking.

Here's an example of why I'm puzzled....
I've heard people say they forgive the killer of a family member.
What does this mean? It doesn't bring back the family member nor take away the pain.
What are they saying, "ahhh forget it, it's okay"?

 

[Shattered]

Forgiveness....

Explain that. What is it to you, what does it mean when "you" say, "I forgive you"?
How does it change your life?

Please leave God and Jesus out of this..I'm interested in what it means deep inside the human psyche.
If you can't leave God and Jesus out, you don't understand what I'm asking.

Here's an example of why I'm puzzled....
I've heard people say they forgive the killer of a family member.
What does this mean? It doesn't bring back the family member nor take away the pain.
What are they saying, "ahhh forget it, it's okay"?

"I forgive you" means "What you did really freakin sucks, but it didn't make me hate you enough to tell you to piss off yet. But...you're skating on thin ice, so watch it."

 

[Annie]

Forgiveness....

Explain that. What is it to you, what does it mean when "you" say, "I forgive you"?
How does it change your life?

Please leave God and Jesus out of this..I'm interested in what it means deep inside the human psyche.
If you can't leave God and Jesus out, you don't understand what I'm asking.

Here's an example of why I'm puzzled....
I've heard people say they forgive the killer of a family member.
What does this mean? It doesn't bring back the family member nor take away the pain.
What are they saying, "ahhh forget it, it's okay"?

Ah you are picking at one of my fallabilities. I'm not much good at 'forgiveness' in the 'big sense.' Oh I forgive easily enough a bit of sarcasm, certainly misunderstandings. I forgive my kids for coming home late, my dad for being a pain in the butt.

I don't forgive those who go out of their way to hurt me or someone I care about.

 

[Nienna]

Whatever someone does to you, if you won't forgive them, it just eats away at YOU. Someone can do horrible things to you, but you always have the choice of whether you want to let the anger fester inside of you, or let it go, and even learn from it. Best I can do without bringing Jesus into it.

 

[Shattered]

Whatever someone does to you, if you won't forgive them, it just eats away at YOU. Someone can do horrible things to you, but you always have the choice of whether you want to let the anger fester inside of you, or let it go, and even learn from it. Best I can do without bringing Jesus into it.

I'm curious as to how it can eat away at you, when you did nothing wrong?

..and does that mean you'll forgive anyone for anything?

 

[Nienna]

I'm curious as to how it can eat away at you, when you did nothing wrong?

..and does that mean you'll forgive anyone for anything?

Well, hard to explain without bringing Jesus into per Mr. P's rule. But holding onto anger has been proven to be unhealthy in psychological studies, increasing bp, stress, etc.

As far as forgiving anyone for anything... Some things would be a LOT harder to forgive than others. But, yeah, I think eventually I could learn to forgive. Just speaking for myself.

 

[Shattered]

Well, hard to explain without bringing Jesus into per Mr. P's rule. But holding onto anger has been proven to be unhealthy in psychological studies, increasing bp, stress, etc.

As far as forgiving anyone for anything... Some things would be a LOT harder to forgive than others. But, yeah, I think eventually I could learn to forgive. Just speaking for myself.

So, you would be able to forgive someone murdering one of your children? Why would you *want* to? (I'm sure it's a drastic comparison, but IMO, some things are just completely unforgiveable). You say "I forgive you" and the anger, hurt, betrayal, etc. just automatically "goes away", and you're skipping through life? Or..are you still hurt and angry?

 

[Nienna]

So, you would be able to forgive someone murdering one of your children? Why would you *want* to? (I'm sure it's a drastic comparison, but IMO, some things are just completely unforgiveable). You say "I forgive you" and the anger, hurt, betrayal, etc. just automatically "goes away", and you're skipping through life? Or..are you still hurt and angry?

Forgiveness is a choice and a discipline, like love. Luckily, humans are capable of ruling their emotions with their minds. You may feel like strangling someone, screaming, raging, but just because we feel this way doesn't mean we have to act on it. We are not victims of our emotions.

The feelings don't automatically disappear. It takes discipline. You make the choice at some point. If someone killed my child, it would probably take some time before I got to that point (But I do have other motivations to get there). Once you make the choice, the emotions may linger, sometimes all your life. But you can tell yourself, "These feelings are justified; I am not wrong to feel this way. But I choose a different way. I choose to move forward, focusing on the good in my life, not dwelling on the hurt, anger, etc."

 

[no1tovote4]

Forgiveness....

Explain that. What is it to you, what does it mean when "you" say, "I forgive you"?
How does it change your life?

Please leave God and Jesus out of this..I'm interested in what it means deep inside the human psyche.
If you can't leave God and Jesus out, you don't understand what I'm asking.

Here's an example of why I'm puzzled....
I've heard people say they forgive the killer of a family member.
What does this mean? It doesn't bring back the family member nor take away the pain.
What are they saying, "ahhh forget it, it's okay"?

I think it is more like saying, "I refuse to allow you to victimize me my entire life. I will not live it solely for revenge, nor steeped in anger. I refuse to any longer allow you to have power over my sorrow, tainting my memories and consuming my energy to the detriment of my mental and physical health. Therefore I release my anger, and follow my own path."

I would bring up some verses of the Dhammapada, but you said to leave religion out of this.

 

[no1tovote4]

So, you would be able to forgive someone murdering one of your children? Why would you *want* to? (I'm sure it's a drastic comparison, but IMO, some things are just completely unforgiveable). You say "I forgive you" and the anger, hurt, betrayal, etc. just automatically "goes away", and you're skipping through life? Or..are you still hurt and angry?

I would rather have the memory of my children untainted by the anger. My sorrow cleaned of thoughts of revenge, so that I can remember my child as they were without having to think at the same time of the murderer being consumed by the victimizing of my family.

For me it would depend entirely on if the person were caught and being punished. If they say, went off to Mexico as did the little man who killed the cop here, I would follow to insure punishment that was due was served before being able to forgive. However, increasing my sorrow and torture of losing a child by constantly burning with a consuming anger is not something that I can find a positive thought about. Releasing the anger would be important to me, to cleanse the memory of my child from thoughts of the murder and murderer, to remember in sorrow the little person....

 

[GotZoom]

Someone hurts me or my family, in a severe extreme (like death, etc), they will never be forgiven. Someone does something else (lie, cheat, steal, etc), it would depend on what it was as to if they will receive my forgiveness.

I can easily not forgive someone and go on with my life as if nothing happened.

I simply declare that person "persona non gratis" in my mind. I don't forget the thing that happened, but I don't dwell on it and want revenge or let it eat at me.

The person who committed the act doesn't exist. I don't care if they live or die.

I would rather spend the time I would use trying to get to a place where I can forgive that person on things like making my family better.

 

[Shattered]

I simply declare that person "persona non gratis" in my mind. I don't forget the thing that happened, but I don't dwell on it and want revenge or let it eat at me.

The person who committed the act doesn't exist. I don't care if they live or die.

Bingo - my thoughts exactly. That's why I can't understand how they can "control" you...

 

[manu1959]

when my family starting sueing each other over money that did not exist my mother was accused by everyone except my brother and i of stealing from my grandmother .... you get the idea

i cut everyone off, grandmother, aunts uncles cousins ...everyone....they no longer existed.....

fast forword five years.....my grandmother gets cancer and asks to see me and my two children.....

my response ......... who?

she died ...... i have never looked back ...... no regrets, no anger, no nothing......it is not my responsibility to forgive someone that has done something to me or those i love that is at its very essence unforgiveable....

 

[dilloduck]

Ah you are picking at one of my fallabilities. I'm not much good at 'forgiveness' in the 'big sense.' Oh I forgive easily enough a bit of sarcasm, certainly misunderstandings. I forgive my kids for coming home late, my dad for being a pain in the butt.

I don't forgive those who go out of their way to hurt me or someone I care about.

Doesn't sound like you really see this as a " fallabilty ".

 

[5stringJeff]

Here's how I see it.

When someone wrongs you, they are guilty of an offense against you. Therefore, you feel that you have the right to hold that wrong against them. Perhaps that means that you feel you can remind them of that wrong; perhaps it means you may extract financial, mental, or physical retribution.

By forgiving that person, you are relinquishing your right to hold that person's wrong against them. You are relinquishing your right to get retribution, and absolving that person's guilt over their offense.

 

[Annie]

Doesn't sound like you really see this as a " fallabilty ".

I think Gotzoom said it earlier. I don't 'dwell' or 'hate.' I just don't want anything to do with them anymore.

 

[dilloduck]

A concept that has not been mentioned about forgiveness yet is that is has the power to change some perpetrators for the better. People often do things just to be hated. Forgiveness of an evil deed is a totally unexpected response and MAY even get them to rethink thier behavior and learn how to act postitively.
When one "feels" wronged it also may be they just have the wrong perception of the action that occurred--we've all met "thin skinned" people who "feel" hurt but nothing intentionally harmful was done to them.

 

[CSM]

I guess for me the level of transgression determines the level of forgiveness...in a few cases, forgiveness would be granted when the cold lifeless body lies at my feet.... the vast majority of the time, most things are not worth getting worked up over....