Forget the Flag issue...the Supreme Court just SCREWED you!

Mr. P

VIP Member
Aug 5, 2004
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South of the Mason Dixon
The Liberal side of the court just took away our private property rights..

Supreme Court Rules Cities May Seize Homes

By HOPE YEN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court on Thursday ruled that local governments may seize people's homes and businesses - even against their will - for private economic development.

It was a decision fraught with huge implications for a country with many areas, particularly the rapidly growing urban and suburban areas, facing countervailing pressures of development and property ownership rights.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ERTY?SITE=MAFAL&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&SECTION=HOME
 
rtwngAvngr said:
But p, if a judge says so it must be right and proper and constitutional. I thought that was your position on judges. Are we flipping you into the light and away from the darkness? Don't mention it!
You have always seemed to misunderstand me...either out of ignorance or just a plain
attempt to argue..I have no time for your childish bullshit.
 
Crap. :smoke:

That means that it is only the Colorado SCOTUS that can protect my home against the "super-slab" private tollway that has put it in danger of being taken by force.

My home is right in the middle of the fricking 12 mile corridor that they will have access to if this gets approved. DR. COG (Denver Regional Council of Governments) is against this, almost every county is also against it. The only city that I know that supports this new tollway is Pueblo which is such a dive that any growth whatsoever would be an improvement for them. They got shut down last year in the Legislature, but it will keep coming back up. This guy is nothing but relentless in his effort to get this new highway in.
 
Mr. P said:
You have always seemed to misunderstand me...either out of ignorance or just a plain
attempt to argue..I have no time for your childish bullshit.

No. I vividly remember you trumpeting the infallibility of judges. You know I'm right, hence your anger. I'm glad we changed you for the better. And as for your off color language, go ahead and :moon4:
 
W....T....F...

I can just imagine the salivating over at DU. They finally have a chance to launch the Stalinist collectivization drive they have been waiting for. This is an utter perversion of the Constitution. Defining tax dollars as "public use"...my God.

How long before they ignore the part about receiving "just compensation"? They already ignored the half about "public use", so why give 'em compensation? Is not the joy of knowing you helped the community by giving away your home to a tax-paying corporation just compensation?

And how long before some CA atheist, having been successful or nearly successfull in getting crosses removed from memorials, the 10 commandments removed from from courthouses, personal prayer removed from schools, and "under God" removed the pledge, decides to turn his gaze upon Churches? After all, Churches don't pay taxes! It would be a community service to bulldoze those archaic structures to pave the way for the dictatorship of the proletariot--Er, I mean, uh, umm, tax-paying structures to help out the community!
 
This SCOTUS ruling is unbelievable! It's right up there with the Roe v. Wade ruling!

To think that some rich guys together with a local government can cause you to lose your home, your own business concern, or any of your private property so they can build a hotel, a health club, and offices there instead, is totally taking away rights of property ownership. But this is actually happening in Connnecticut today. People in a working-man neighborhood who have lived there for 30 - 40 years are only being compensated for the value of their homes and then kicked out. What about the value of their lives? What about their right to keep their own private property?

It is one thing to for the government to exercise the Right of Eminent Domain for public purposes such as roads or parks. These things are funded by the public and are for the public. This decision is not about public use but is about private use.

Obviously however, if any local government thinks it will profit by establishing a new and more profitable tax base it will happily team up with an investor looking to make millions. If this ruling holds, we can look forward to lots of folks losing their homes/businesses in the future.

CNN has a poll going and of the 122,000 votes so far, only 1% think that the government should seize private property for private economic development. Once again our liberal judges are way out of step with the voters and are set upon furthering their own socialist agenda.

:blowup:
 
I am still trying to encompass this, there is nothing in the Constitution that actually supports their decision. I think maybe it is time to see about the first Impeachment of a SCOTUS Justice, about 5 of them...

:bat:
 
This has been blown way out of proportion. I don't agree with the basis for this decision either, but it leaves the door open for State legislatures to set extremely stringent standards, which is what they will do. The decision, as I read it, really says that this is an issue for states to deal with. I was horrified at first as well, especially as I am seeing the value of my home go down because a greedy developer is building a bunch of cheap houses right across the street from me. Then I read what the real gist of the decision was, and while I disagreed with the conclusion of the majority, I could see how easy it will be to set standards and provide ample protection for property owners. I doubt you will see massive land grabs as a result of this decision, most city councils and mayors won't want to engage in this sort of activity - it makes it very difficult to get re-elected.

acludem
 
acludem said:
This has been blown way out of proportion. I don't agree with the basis for this decision either, but it leaves the door open for State legislatures to set extremely stringent standards, which is what they will do. The decision, as I read it, really says that this is an issue for states to deal with. I was horrified at first as well, especially as I am seeing the value of my home go down because a greedy developer is building a bunch of cheap houses right across the street from me. Then I read what the real gist of the decision was, and while I disagreed with the conclusion of the majority, I could see how easy it will be to set standards and provide ample protection for property owners. I doubt you will see massive land grabs as a result of this decision, most city councils and mayors won't want to engage in this sort of activity - it makes it very difficult to get re-elected.

acludem

Yes. So simple. So "states rights". Of course your lib buddies are gonna convince you this is just peachy. It nearly destroys private property rights regarding real estate. Score one for totalitarianism.
 
Some imbecile was on Cavuto talking about how this was proper capitalism. WTF. This is taking away private property in the name of the "public good". Just taking it away, not because someone put it for sale and someone else bought it, not because the owner was forced to get rid of it due to bankruptcy, but because THE STATE KNOWS WHATS BEST. Communism in action.
 
Just like I believe too many rush to bring up 'divorce' when marriages hit rocky patches, so too I believe many are too quick to yell 'Constitutional Amendment' when something goes wrong with the courts. Ladies and Gentlemen, there are other alternatives, but one has to take a longer view. Constitutional Amendments to my way of thinking, should be rare indeed, for they have serious limits on our freedoms.

The Supreme Court over the past 200 years has made some very bad decisions, Dred Scott being the one that most readily comes to mind. An activated electorate and a war followed, realizing that the inherent problems with slavery were not going to be solved by SCOTUS or Congress-some issues are 'too large.' The courts of the 20's were later balanced by the more 'conservative' 30's to FDR's consternation. Followed by nearly 30 years of liberal SCOTUS. Many people are awakening to 'something' needing to be addressed here, let's hope that 'people' start taking some ownership of the problems.

I did see that Mr. Durbin has been swamped with calls, emails, and letters to the editor all over the state of Illinois. Ahem, that means Democrats are also taking him to task. When 'the people' are active, vocal, and watchful, government stays in line. Just complaining and going about your business, means they can get away with sound bites and going along with theirs.

We have allowed government to infringe on too many personal aspects of our lives, thus I guess they think they can go to land grabs. Mind you, this is the 'liberal side' of SCOTUS ruling for Big Business, against homeowners, read: voters. One doesn't need political science to know you will now have lots of politicos to respond about the 'need for action by Congress,' in actuality it should be a wake up call for the people to start to demand more freedom and rights and protections. This does NOT mean more laws, it means less.

Where do we want government? For me, I don't want laws against burning flags; what size and color my garbage cans should be; whether or not cock fighting is allowed; what is sold in stores or available on the airwaves to adults, (please note, there are local restrictions that can be enforced to control 'who buys what.'); I DO want government protecting our borders; taking care of interstate roads; and providing for the common defense.

I never thought I'd see the day when 'conservatives' were the ones driving the charge for more government interference as a reaction to 'government interference.' :scratch:
 
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006862
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
Kennedy's Vast Domain
The Supreme Court's reverse Robin Hoods.

Friday, June 24, 2005 12:01 a.m.

The Supreme Court's "liberal" wing has a reputation in some circles as a guardian of the little guy and a protector of civil liberties. That deserves reconsideration in light of yesterday's decision in Kelo v. City of New London. The Court's four liberals (Justices Stevens, Breyer, Souter and Ginsburg) combined with the protean Anthony Kennedy to rule that local governments have more or less unlimited authority to seize homes and businesses.

No one disputes that this power of "eminent domain" makes sense in limited circumstances; the Constitution's Fifth Amendment explicitly provides for it. But the plain reading of that Amendment's "takings clause" also appears to require that eminent domain be invoked only when land is required for genuine "public use" such as roads. It further requires that the government pay owners "just compensation" in such cases.

The founding fathers added this clause to the Fifth Amendment--which also guarantees "due process" and protects against double jeopardy and self-incrimination--because they understood that there could be no meaningful liberty in a country where the fruits of one's labor are subject to arbitrary government seizure.

That protection was immensely diminished by yesterday's 5-4 decision, which effectively erased the requirement that eminent domain be invoked for "public use."
The Court said that the city of New London, Connecticut, was justified in evicting a group of plaintiffs led by homeowner Susette Kelo from their properties to make way for private development including a hotel and a Pfizer Corp. office. (Yes, the pharmaceutical Pfizer.) The properties to be seized and destroyed include Victorian homes and small businesses that have been in families for generations.

"The city has carefully formulated a development plan that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including, but not limited to, new jobs and increased tax revenue," Justice John Paul Stevens wrote for the majority. Justice Kennedy wrote in concurrence that this could be considered public use because the development plan was "comprehensive" and "meant to address a serious city-wide depression." In other words, local governments can do what they want as long as they can plausibly argue that any kind of public interest will be served.

In his clarifying dissent, Justice Clarence Thomas exposes this logic for the government land grab that it is. He accuses the majority of replacing the Fifth Amendment's "Public Use Clause" with a very different "public purpose" test: "This deferential shift in phraseology enables the Court to hold, against all common sense, that a costly urban-renewal project whose stated purpose is a vague promise of new jobs and increased tax revenue, but which is also suspiciously agreeable to the Pfizer Corporation, is for a 'public use.'"

And in a separate dissent, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor suggested that the use of this power in a reverse Robin Hood fashion--take from the poor, give to the rich--would become the norm, not the exception: "Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random. The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms."

That prospect helps explain the unusual coalition supporting the property owners in the case, ranging from the libertarian Institute for Justice (the lead lawyers) to the NAACP, AARP and the late Martin Luther King's Southern Christian Leadership Conference.
Note the absence of ACLU, surprisingly quiet on this one. :rolleyes: The latter three groups signed an amicus brief arguing that eminent domain has often been used against politically weak communities with high concentrations of minorities and elderly. Justice Thomas's opinion cites a wealth of data to that effect.

And it's not just the "public use" requirement of the Fifth Amendment that's undermined by Kelo. So too is the guarantee of "just compensation." Why? Because there is no need to invoke eminent domain if developers are willing to pay what owners themselves consider just compensation.

Just compensation may differ substantially from so-called fair market value given the sentimental and other values many of us attach to our homes and other property. Even eager sellers will be hurt by Kelo, since developers will have every incentive to lowball their bids now that they can freely threaten to invoke eminent domain.

So, in just two weeks, the Supreme Court has rendered two major decisions on the limits of government. In Raich v. Gonzales the Court said there are effectively no limits on what the federal government can do using the Commerce Clause as a justification. In Kelo, it's now ruled that there are effectively no limits on the predations of local governments against private property.

These kinds of judicial encroachments on liberty are precisely why Supreme Court nominations have become such high-stakes battles. If President Bush is truly the "strict constructionist" he professes to be, he will take note of the need to check this disturbing trend should he be presented with a High Court vacancy. And that's where the pressure needs to be. Us 'blue state' conservatives, must pressure our legislators to give the president's choices their chance to be voted on-up or down!
 
acludem said:
This has been blown way out of proportion. I don't agree with the basis for this decision either, but it leaves the door open for State legislatures to set extremely stringent standards, which is what they will do. The decision, as I read it, really says that this is an issue for states to deal with. I was horrified at first as well, especially as I am seeing the value of my home go down because a greedy developer is building a bunch of cheap houses right across the street from me. Then I read what the real gist of the decision was, and while I disagreed with the conclusion of the majority, I could see how easy it will be to set standards and provide ample protection for property owners. I doubt you will see massive land grabs as a result of this decision, most city councils and mayors won't want to engage in this sort of activity - it makes it very difficult to get re-elected.

acludem

Why is it that I find no comfort in yor words of reassurance ? You have NO idea what state legistatures will do nor can you predict the actions of city councils or mayors and your "organization" has the funding to effect local elections to the point where anything can happen. BTW--what the hell is the ACLU doing involving itself in politics on ANY level?
 
It's important that citizens recognize the underpinnings of what they are arguing for or against. Especially in public issues, the 'law of unintended consequences applies...'

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/48743.htm

NO LIMITS

By GEORGE F. WILL

THE country is bracing for a bruising battle over filling a Supreme Court vacancy, a battle in which conservatives will praise "judicial restraint" and "deference" to popularly elected branches of government and liberals will praise judicial activism in defense of individual rights. But consider what the court did Thursday.

Most conservatives hoped that, in the most important case the court would decide this term, judicial activism would put a leash on popularly elected local governments and would pull courts more deeply into American governance in order to protect the rights of individuals. On Thursday, conservatives were disappointed.

The case came from New London, Conn., where the city government, like all governments, wants more revenues and has empowered a private entity, the New London Development Corporation, to exercise the awesome power of eminent domain. It has done so to condemn an unblighted working-class neighborhood in order to give the space to private developers whose condominiums, luxury hotel and private offices would pay more taxes than do the owners of the condemned homes and businesses.

The question answered Thursday was: Can government profit by seizing the property of people of modest means and giving it to wealthy people who can pay more taxes than can be extracted from the original owners? The court answered yes.

The Fifth Amendment says, among other things, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation" (emphasis added). All state constitutions echo the Constitution's Framers by stipulating that takings must be for "public use." The Framers, who weighed their words, clearly intended the adjective "public" to circumscribe government's power: Government should take private property only to create things — roads, bridges, parks, public buildings — directly owned or primarily used by the general public.

Fighting eviction from homes some of them had lived in all their lives, the New London owners appealed to Connecticut's Supreme Court, which ruled 4-3 against them. On Thursday they lost again. The U.S. Supreme Court issued a 5-4 ruling that drains the phrase "public use" of its clearly intended function of denying to government an untrammeled power to dispossess individuals of their most precious property — their homes and businesses.

During oral arguments in February, Justice Antonin Scalia distilled the essence of New London's brazen claim: "You can take from A and give to B if B pays more taxes?" On Thursday the court said that the modifier "public" in the phrase "public use" does not modify government power at all. That is the logic of the opinion written by Justice John Paul Stevens and joined by justices Anthony Kennedy, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer.

In a tart dissent, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, joined by Chief Justice William Rehnquist, Justice Scalia and Justice Clarence Thomas, noted that the consequences of this decision "will not be random." She says it is "likely" — a considerable understatement — that the beneficiaries of the decision will be people "with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms."

Those on the receiving end of the life-shattering power that the court has validated will almost always be individuals of modest means. So this liberal decision — it augments government power to aggrandize itself by bulldozing individuals' interests — favors muscular economic battalions at the expense of society's little platoons, such as homeowners and the neighborhoods they comprise.

Dissenting separately, Justice Thomas noted the common law origins and clearly restrictive purpose of the Framers' "public use" requirement. And responding to the majority's dictum that the court should not "second guess" the New London city government's "considered judgment" about what constitutes seizing property for "public use," he said: A court owes "no deference" to a legislature's or city government's self-interested reinterpretation of the phrase "public use," a notably explicit clause of the Bill of Rights, any more than a court owes deference to a legislature's determination of what constitutes a "reasonable" search of a home.

Liberalism triumphed Thursday. Government became radically unlimited in seizing the very kinds of private property that should guarantee individuals a sphere of autonomy against government.

Conservatives should be reminded to be careful what they wish for. Their often-reflexive rhetoric praises "judicial restraint" and deference to — it sometimes seems — almost unleashable powers of the elected branches of governments. However, in the debate about the proper role of the judiciary in American democracy, conservatives who dogmatically preach a populist creed of deference to majoritarianism will thereby abandon, or at least radically restrict, the judiciary's indispensable role in limiting government.
 
Am I missing something here?---Did not one branch of the federal government just give state governments more power and influence over the rights of individuals. Still smacks of excessive government intrusion into our private lives to me. The feds delegating this "right to infringe' to the states will ONLY work for the good of a conservative if the states NEVER USE IT !
 
dilloduck said:
Am I missing something here?---Did not one branch of the federal government just give state governments more power and influence over the rights of individuals. Still smacks of excessive government intrusion into our private lives to me. The feds delegating this "right to infringe' to the states will ONLY work for the good of a conservative if the states NEVER USE IT !
Which is not likely if the citizenry keeps up their non-involvement and desire to create more laws. It's now the conservatives that are too often asking for constitutional amendments on very narrow topics.

It's way past time for people to become vocal and connected with those they are choosing to elect. Remember, it's the elected that make the appointments. It is imperative that they be reminded who they are beholden to.
 

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