Forced sterilization?

[AmyNation]

A few years back I was acquainted with a woman named Susie. Susie has a laundry list of physical and metal handicaps. She is married to a very nice man, who also has a long list of both physical and metal handicaps. Both susie and her husband are supported by the state.

The issue is that, while being supported by the state, Susie and her husband decided to have babies, lots of babies. The last time i saw Susie, they were up to 4. Each of their children have physical(not sure about the mental) handicaps. They now have a case worker who visits the family regularly, and the state provides a helper who also comes at least once a week.

I can remember a coworker commenting that Susie was the poster child for forced sterilization.

The question is, should people who do not have the mental capacity to fully care for themselves, be allowed to procreate? Is this a slippery slope best steered clear of, or should the state be allowed to sterilize the mentally impaired.

 

[Noomi]

If you cannot care for yourself, you should be prevented from having children.

 

[theliq]

A few years back I was acquainted with a woman named Susie. Susie has a laundry list of physical and metal handicaps. She is married to a very nice man, who also has a long list of both physical and metal handicaps. Both susie and her husband are supported by the state.

The issue is that, while being supported by the state, Susie and her husband decided to have babies, lots of babies. The last time i saw Susie, they were up to 4. Each of their children have physical(not sure about the mental) handicaps. They now have a case worker who visits the family regularly, and the state provides a helper who also comes at least once a week.

I can remember a coworker commenting that Susie was the poster child for forced sterilization.

The question is, should people who do not have the mental capacity to fully care for themselves, be allowed to procreate? Is this a slippery slope best steered clear of, or should the state be allowed to sterilize the mentally impaired.

As an Up Side to this statement,Beethoven's parents had 5 idiots before Beethoven himself was born,just sayin. steve

 

[koshergrl]

"When it comes to population control, the Shivraj Singh Chouhan government in Madhya Pradesh appears to be inspired by Sanjay Gandhi and his forced sterilisation drive.

"In a grim reminder of the Emergency days, health officials in Madhya Pradesh are adopting unethical ways to meet birth control targets. Poor and uneducated people in the state are being tricked to undergo vasectomy (men) and tubectomy (women)."

"The Congress has alleged that the government is using inhuman and terror tactics for population control. "They lure poor and illiterate people without telling them about the implications involved in the process. In Jabalpur, three persons, who were sterilised last year, were forced to undergo the procedure again recently. This is a human rights violation of the worst kind," Opposition leader in the assembly Ajay Singh said."

Sterilisation nightmare in Madhya Pradesh as Shivraj Singh Chouhan does a Sanjay Gandhi : Mail Today Stories, News - India Today

The National Population Policy had affirmed the government's commitment for "voluntary and informed choice and consent of citizens" while availing reproductive health care services and had stressed "continuation of the target-free approach in administering family planning services".

Read more at: Sterilisation nightmare in Madhya Pradesh as Shivraj Singh Chouhan does a Sanjay Gandhi : Mail Today Stories, News - India Today



Read more at: Sterilisation nightmare in Madhya Pradesh as Shivraj Singh Chouhan does a Sanjay Gandhi : Mail Today Stories, News - India Today"​

 

[Noomi]

I am not in support of sterilising poor people or illiterate people. But those people who need care, and cannot even live by themselves, pay their own bills, cook their own dinner, should not be having babies, and nor should they be allowed to keep them.

Because you are unable to care for yourself, how in the world can you look after a baby?

 

[koshergrl]

"It is shocking to think eugenics flourished in our own beloved America long before it got started in Nazi Germany. Even more appalling for those interested in the history of American science, leading biologists promoted eugenics programs. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to find estimates of how many people were sterilized nationwide as part of individual state programs. The surviving data, however, suggests that the number is likely to be in the ten thousands."



An American Scientific Nightmare: The Legacy of Eugenics « University of Chicago Undergraduate Law Review

"Forced abortions. Mass sterilization. A "Planetary Regime" with the power of life and death over American citizens.

The tyrannical fantasies of a madman? Or merely the opinions of the person now in control of science policy in the United States? Or both?

These ideas (among many other equally horrifying recommendations) were put forth by John Holdren, whom Barack Obama has recently appointed Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, Assistant to the President for Science and Technology, and Co-Chair of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology -- informally known as the United States' Science Czar. In a book Holdren co-authored in 1977, the man now firmly in control of science policy in this country wrote that:

• Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
• The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation's drinking water or in food;
• Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
• People who "contribute to social deterioration" (i.e. undesirables) "can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility" -- in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
• A transnational "Planetary Regime" should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans' lives -- using an armed international police force. "

John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, says: Forced abortions and mass sterilization needed to save the planet

 

[syrenn]

A few years back I was acquainted with a woman named Susie. Susie has a laundry list of physical and metal handicaps. She is married to a very nice man, who also has a long list of both physical and metal handicaps. Both susie and her husband are supported by the state.

The issue is that, while being supported by the state, Susie and her husband decided to have babies, lots of babies. The last time i saw Susie, they were up to 4. Each of their children have physical(not sure about the mental) handicaps. They now have a case worker who visits the family regularly, and the state provides a helper who also comes at least once a week.

I can remember a coworker commenting that Susie was the poster child for forced sterilization.

The question is, should people who do not have the mental capacity to fully care for themselves, be allowed to procreate? Is this a slippery slope best steered clear of, or should the state be allowed to sterilize the mentally impaired.

Oh i am in support of forced sterilization on not just the mentally impaired.



Tennessee man has over 20 kids; owes child support to 15 women | WTVR.com

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3e41prVDv4]15 Kid Welfare Mom: "Somebody Owes Me" - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Noomi]

I do not believe such an insult is acceptable as I have not insulted you. As I have said before, treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect as I have been.

Now, can you please answer my question, and tell me how you would deal with such a problem?

 

[koshergrl]

"Nazi doctors carried out direct medical killings as part of "life unworthy of life" policy, as well as deathly experiments on concentration camp prisoners. German doctors were forced to do that according to the Nazi medical decisions. There were two racial programs which directed the entire work of the German physicians of that time:
- coercive sterilization,
- killing of "impaired" people.
Euthanasia program alone, the centers of which were in Hartheim, Somnenstein, Grafeneck, Bernburg, Brandeburg and Hademar, has launched into eternity about 100000 mentally and permanently sick people. They were murdered in carbon monoxide gas chambers. The systematic euthanasia procedures began in April 1940 and within three weeks all Jewish patients were to be murdered."

They always start with an idea they can sell to the public. The nazis sold the idea of "Jews are bad'. Noomi is selling/buying the idea 'the disabled are not worthy of life'. You can see it in her insistence that women abort if they have the potential to have disabled children, her idea that a woman who glues her toddler's hands to the wall and beats that child almost to death be given a short sentence, and in her belief that disabled women should be forcibly sterilized.

Disgusting.

Nazi Nightmares - Medical Killing in Nazi Germany

 

[Noomi]

A few years back I was acquainted with a woman named Susie. Susie has a laundry list of physical and metal handicaps. She is married to a very nice man, who also has a long list of both physical and metal handicaps. Both susie and her husband are supported by the state.

The issue is that, while being supported by the state, Susie and her husband decided to have babies, lots of babies. The last time i saw Susie, they were up to 4. Each of their children have physical(not sure about the mental) handicaps. They now have a case worker who visits the family regularly, and the state provides a helper who also comes at least once a week.

I can remember a coworker commenting that Susie was the poster child for forced sterilization.

The question is, should people who do not have the mental capacity to fully care for themselves, be allowed to procreate? Is this a slippery slope best steered clear of, or should the state be allowed to sterilize the mentally impaired.

Oh i am in support of forced sterilization on not just the mentally impaired.



Tennessee man has over 20 kids; owes child support to 15 women | WTVR.com

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3e41prVDv4]15 Kid Welfare Mom: "Somebody Owes Me" - YouTube[/ame]

Nah, just tell them that if they have any more kids, they won't get any extra welfare payments. The birth control will suddenly start working then.

 

[syrenn]

just saying KG.... this is the CDZ.

 

[syrenn]

A few years back I was acquainted with a woman named Susie. Susie has a laundry list of physical and metal handicaps. She is married to a very nice man, who also has a long list of both physical and metal handicaps. Both susie and her husband are supported by the state.

The issue is that, while being supported by the state, Susie and her husband decided to have babies, lots of babies. The last time i saw Susie, they were up to 4. Each of their children have physical(not sure about the mental) handicaps. They now have a case worker who visits the family regularly, and the state provides a helper who also comes at least once a week.

I can remember a coworker commenting that Susie was the poster child for forced sterilization.

The question is, should people who do not have the mental capacity to fully care for themselves, be allowed to procreate? Is this a slippery slope best steered clear of, or should the state be allowed to sterilize the mentally impaired.

Oh i am in support of forced sterilization on not just the mentally impaired.



Tennessee man has over 20 kids; owes child support to 15 women | WTVR.com

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3e41prVDv4]15 Kid Welfare Mom: "Somebody Owes Me" - YouTube[/ame]

Nah, just tell them that if they have any more kids, they won't get any extra welfare payments. The birth control will suddenly start working then.

that too....


but if there ever were poster children for sterilization...... these are a few candidates.

 

[Noomi]

Fuck you, nazi. Your "control by death via abortion" and "control by forced sterilization" bullshit is nauseating.

I do not believe such an insult is acceptable as I have not insulted you. As I have said before, treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect as I have been.

Now, can you please answer my question, and tell me how you would deal with such a problem?

People like you don't deserve respect and you won't get any from me. I have no respect for you. Scum who screech "You're violating the RIGHTS OF WOMEN" when people claim babies have the right to life, but then scream "We must forcibly sterilize women!" out of the other side of their mouths are nothing but fascists and the worst enemies of mankind.

Do a search of forced sterilization and see your heroes.

That is fine. I am happy to go along knowing I am a better person, who doesn't stoop to insults when I disagree with someone.

Please answer my question - what would you do about a person who had a mental impairment, requiring round the clock care, who ended up pregnant and wanted to raise the child on their own?

 

[koshergrl]

China's one-child act exists to make sure people can care for the children they have.

Perfectly reasonable, no?

"
“The Family Planning Officials inserted an intrauterine device in me after I gave birth to two daughters. I worked in another city since then and didn’t go to the Family Planning Office for the pregnancy check. But I was pregnant accidently again. The Family Planning Officials said I was in violation of the “Population and Family Planning Law of the Peoples Republic of China” and looked for me all around. On the lunar calendar November 9, 2004, they had a conversation with my mother and asked her to pay a deposit of 1,000 Yuan [$157]. My mother hid after that.
“Two months later, they found my mother-in-law. They seized her and smashed her belongings. She was seized and released altogether three times. They did the same to my third elder brother’s wife. On February 19, 2005, they seized my elder sister’s husband (Yongjun Hu, from Beiyan Village, west of Liangqiu Town). He was detained in the town Family Planning Office for a whole week and beaten twenty-seven times. Later they seized my nephew (Qiang Li, 27 years old), his wife and his child Ranran (one year old). My nephew was beaten fourteen times. His toenail was trod down by a Family Planning Official’s leather shoes. After that they seized my uncle’s wife (Shaoxiang Zhu, from the same village as I) and my husband’s younger sister (she comes from another town).
“They seized all my relatives they could find. On March, 2005, they seized my younger sister Zhongyan Fang (pregnant with her first child for three months). Seven or eight Family Planning Officials pushed her into a car and detained her for a whole day. They set her free after she paid 1,000 Yuan. My younger sister’s mother-in-law was also seized for a whole week. They didn’t give her anything to eat or drink. She was released after she paid 1,500 as so-called “tuition fee” [a fee for the cost of detention].
“My younger sister’s father-in-law was detained when he went there to send food to his wife. He was beaten by six or seven people in the Family Planning office. He ran out after one day’s detention. Then my husband’s nephew, my third aunt and her husband (Kaifeng Liu) as well as her granddaughter (not even four years old), my fourth aunt (Deying Xue), my uncle’s wife were all seized. My uncle’s wife was beaten in the car with rubber sticks all the way to the Family Planning Office. They stamped on her with leather shoes. She lost consciousness several times. Her kidney was so injured that she couldn’t do any manual work until now (proven by the medical record prescribed by expert from people’s hospital of Fei county). They also seized my fifth elder brother’s wife’s younger sister (Xuelan Guo) and my third elder brother’s wife’s younger sister (Yufeng Chai).
“My third aunt’s husband phoned me: “If you don’t come back, your aunt will be beaten to death.” I was forced to go back on 31st, March. I was already pregnant for seven months at that time and was forced to inject an oxytocic drug. My baby was aborted one day later. I had ligation at 9:00 in the morning of April 13, 2005. They let my aunt go after that.”
Because of the practice of “implication” twenty-two of her relatives were seized, including three children, one pregnant woman and a woman more than 70 years old. This deeply shocked us. To confirm, I told her that I wanted to see her relatives.
The next day I met with her uncle’s wife Yunxiang Cao in Liangqiu town, Fei County. She said:
“At about 6:00 in the morning of March 9, a crowd of people (Feng, Women’s Section Officer was with them) came to seize me. I was making a fire in the courtyard at that time. They dragged me out and scolded me: ‘We didn’t have any rest the whole night. You benefit from your relative and we benefit from her too!’ Some of them beat me with rubber sticks. They forced me to walk faster. They took me in their car and forced me to lead them to seize my elder sister in Nanyan village.
“I lost consciousness. I crossed my legs and covered my mouth with my hands when I regained consciousness. My sister’s door was locked when we arrived at her home. They scolded: ‘Take the b__ch in the car!’ Later they pushed me down into the car and asked me to find her neighbors. They asked her neighbors to cheat her into coming back by saying that her mother was seriously sick. After she and her husband came back, they took them in the car. She worried about her granddaughter and said: ‘What can I do with my granddaughter?’
“They took her granddaughter in their car as well. She begged them not to, but they disregarded that. They beat her and her husband in the Family Planning Office. They beat me eight times and detained me for three days."

http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/w...o-exposed-forced-sterilizations-in-china.html

 

[Intense]

Just a Reminder. This is the CDZ. No Flames. No Name Calling other Posters. If you need to Flame, take it to another Forum. Flagrant Violators will be Banned from this Forum.

 

[Noomi]

Thank you, Intense.

 

[Two Thumbs]

If you cannot care for yourself, you should be prevented from having children.

since this is usmbs room for children

I leave it at this


Only an evil person would force sterilization on another.

 

[Noomi]

If you cannot care for yourself, you should be prevented from having children.

since this is usmbs room for children

I leave it at this


Only an evil person would force sterilization on another.

There are some conservatives would like to see welfare recipients sterilized.

 

[Two Thumbs]

If you cannot care for yourself, you should be prevented from having children.

since this is usmbs room for children

I leave it at this


Only an evil person would force sterilization on another.

There are some conservatives would like to see welfare recipients sterilized.

Only an evil person would force sterilization on another.

I don't know how to be more clear.


I understand people get upset, and blurt out hateful things.
but
When a person takes the time to think about what they are saying and then choose force on a hapless victim.

It's evil.

 

[Noomi]

Okay, then can you answer my question that I posed a few posts ago? The one that KG refused to answer?