For those who think only liberals want their BS in the classroom

[Father Time]

Question for Mccarthy's defenders

Do you think recklessly making accusations without evidence is immoral yes or no?

 

[Father Time]

Joe Mccarthy was a patriot?

You honestly think a man who ignores a fundamental principle of the justice system, (accused are innocent until proven guilty, and accusers need to provide evidence) is a patriot?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

PC,

I do not debate that there were Communist spies in the government in the 1950's. The US and the USSR were gearing up for a sustained conflict and both sides went to a lot of effort to infiltrate the governments and institutions of their foes. In case folks missed it, the same infiltration is happening today between our government and the Chinese.

What I strongly object to is the method McCarthy used. If we applied McCarthy's standards today then the House could shut down talk radio in a week by pointing out Rush's, Liddy's, and others past admitted crimes and racist comments.

We correctly reject such over the top methods as violations of the very ideals we hold dear as Americans.

That is part of the reason I am in favor of studying, but not rationalizing, McCarthyism. If the techniques and standards had become institutionalized we would have turnd out as bad as the foes we fought.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Question for Mccarthy's defenders

Do you think recklessly making accusations without evidence is immoral yes or no?

I understand the extent of the popular myth that Senator McCarty was "making accusations without evidence ..."

And, in fact, one of your supporters claimed that the Senator simply took names from the phonebook.

I would like to propose a simple experiment to test whether your dearly-held beliefs are, in fact, true.

My post #20 was fairly extensive, and, I hope, eminently readable.

If your beliefs are correct, it should be possible for you to compose a similar post showing, say, five or ten individuals who were provably not communists, and whose life was destroyed without evidence. By McCarthy.

I am not saying that the Senator was warm and fuzzy, nor that his methods were not tough.

I am saying that within the politically tinted landscape of the time, he was correct and in fact, a hero.

If you accept the challenge, and cannot gather said infomation, I suggest you should begin to question who and why ill-informed you.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

CNN.com - Senate releases McCarthy transcripts - May. 5, 2003

I'd hot link that for ease of clicking but I'm on my iPod replying.

The article lists a few of the more spectacular cases where McCarthy personally set out to ruin lives. Some of the footage I've seen borders on the ridiculous, such as when McCarthy grilled a little old lady repeatedly only to learn he had literally got the wrong listing from the phone book. That actually happened.

Things were so bad that just a summons from HUAC could result in job loss, or in extreme cases suicide.

Are these tactics you really want to defend? Do you really want to empower the House and Senate with this kind of power again?

 

[PoliticalChic]

CNN.com - Senate releases McCarthy transcripts - May. 5, 2003

I'd hot link that for ease of clicking but I'm on my iPod replying.

The article lists a few of the more spectacular cases where McCarthy personally set out to ruin lives. Some of the footage I've seen borders on the ridiculous, such as when McCarthy grilled a little old lady repeatedly only to learn he had literally got the wrong listing from the phone book. That actually happened.

Things were so bad that just a summons from HUAC could result in job loss, or in extreme cases suicide.

Are these tactics you really want to defend? Do you really want to empower the House and Senate with this kind of power again?

HUAC was not associated with McCarthy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Joe Mccarthy was a patriot?

You honestly think a man who ignores a fundamental principle of the justice system, (accused are innocent until proven guilty, and accusers need to provide evidence) is a patriot?

And who was put in jail without evidence?

 

[Anguille]

What complete bullshit. As it turns out, McCarthy was exactly right.

Wow!! Where is del's post of the day thread!! This is a winner!

 

[JenT]

Using the standards of "Correctness" that you've applied to McCarthy, I'd be 100% correct in saying that the GOP and the Conservative movement is infested with Drug Addicts, Homosexuals, and Corrupt Criminals.

McCarthy's tactic was to literally pick up the phone book and accuse everyone in it of being a Communist. Of course he hit a few right. He also missed spectacularly and repeatedly.

You are unaware of the danger and the extent of the threat.

Without patriots such as McCarthy, the restrictions on the threat, the infiltration of paid Communist agents within the government, and unions, and academia, would have been far more insidious and extensive.

In a previous post, I provided a fairly extensive outline that you might find enlightening.

To a great degree, the control of American foreign policy by Communists, 'fellow travelers' (not a reference to you), and those sympathetic to same, either as a reaction to fascism or due to a belief in a untopianism, was responsible for the one hundred millon murdered by Communist governments in the last century.

Not a whole lot of sources for said outline and this doesn't excuse him making reckless accusations (which you haven't denied him doing I noticed).

But OK back to your logic. I'm going to accuse everyone here of being an arsonist because you don't know how much a problem they are and they need to be scared into not lighting fires. Let's ignore the morality of it or the damage that could be done to a person as a result of such false accusations.

I honestly don't know why you're hellbent on trying to justify his despicable behavior.

Possibly because we're waking up to the blatant lies and propaganda mills called public school and universities...I wouldn't know if McCarthy was justified or not because I'd have to examine every accusation he made to make a judgment. I sure wouldn't trust what our liberal reconditioning institutions that pass for academia "teach" about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's not covered to some degree on Glenn Beck tomorrow night

 

[JenT]

Question for Mccarthy's defenders

Do you think recklessly making accusations without evidence is immoral yes or no?

mmmmm, did you have evidence that McCarthy recklessly made accusations?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

PC,

You are correct. HUAC was the House, McCarthy was the Senate. I consider them to be six or one, half dozen of the other. Both had their share of excesses a small government type like myself can not support.

 

[bodecea]

What complete bullshit. As it turns out, McCarthy was exactly right.

What a hoot! (tho not surprising at all), Alliebaabaa.

 

[AllieBaba]

I already won my case.
Now go ahead and prove that McCarthy's accusations were baseless.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC,

You are correct. HUAC was the House, McCarthy was the Senate. I consider them to be six or one, half dozen of the other. Both had their share of excesses a small government type like myself can not support.

You may "consider them to be six or one, half dozen of the other" but neither the English-speaking world nor those cognzant of the Constitution do.

I hope that you will take up the challenge that I issued to your colleague. Please. Let's get to the bottom of this.

Being fair minded, I believe that you will come to a new realization.

 

[Father Time]

Question for Mccarthy's defenders

Do you think recklessly making accusations without evidence is immoral yes or no?

I understand the extent of the popular myth that Senator McCarty was "making accusations without evidence ..."

And, in fact, one of your supporters claimed that the Senator simply took names from the phonebook.

I would like to propose a simple experiment to test whether your dearly-held beliefs are, in fact, true.

My post #20 was fairly extensive, and, I hope, eminently readable.

If your beliefs are correct, it should be possible for you to compose a similar post showing, say, five or ten individuals who were provably not communists, and whose life was destroyed without evidence. By McCarthy.

I am not saying that the Senator was warm and fuzzy, nor that his methods were not tough.

I am saying that within the politically tinted landscape of the time, he was correct and in fact, a hero.

If you accept the challenge, and cannot gather said infomation, I suggest you should begin to question who and why ill-informed you.

It's not my job to prove they aren't communists it was his job to prove they were, and I all ready linked to the verona papers look at all those names Mccarthy produced that weren't proven to be communists. So yeah I'd say he was reckless.

 

[Father Time]

I already won my case.
Now go ahead and prove that McCarthy's accusations were baseless.

Prove Mccarthy had evidence for his cases, that's what you need in the court of law.

 

[Father Time]

You are unaware of the danger and the extent of the threat.

Without patriots such as McCarthy, the restrictions on the threat, the infiltration of paid Communist agents within the government, and unions, and academia, would have been far more insidious and extensive.

In a previous post, I provided a fairly extensive outline that you might find enlightening.

To a great degree, the control of American foreign policy by Communists, 'fellow travelers' (not a reference to you), and those sympathetic to same, either as a reaction to fascism or due to a belief in a untopianism, was responsible for the one hundred millon murdered by Communist governments in the last century.

Not a whole lot of sources for said outline and this doesn't excuse him making reckless accusations (which you haven't denied him doing I noticed).

But OK back to your logic. I'm going to accuse everyone here of being an arsonist because you don't know how much a problem they are and they need to be scared into not lighting fires. Let's ignore the morality of it or the damage that could be done to a person as a result of such false accusations.

I honestly don't know why you're hellbent on trying to justify his despicable behavior.

Possibly because we're waking up to the blatant lies and propaganda mills called public school and universities...I wouldn't know if McCarthy was justified or not because I'd have to examine every accusation he made to make a judgment. I sure wouldn't trust what our liberal reconditioning institutions that pass for academia "teach" about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's not covered to some degree on Glenn Beck tomorrow night

So you think that most of academia is a vast conspiracy designed to indoctrinate kids into liberals?



There's a saying that goes extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, so do you have anything to back up that all, or most (not some) schools are in on that?

 

[Father Time]

Question for Mccarthy's defenders

Do you think recklessly making accusations without evidence is immoral yes or no?

I understand the extent of the popular myth that Senator McCarty was "making accusations without evidence ..."

And, in fact, one of your supporters claimed that the Senator simply took names from the phonebook.

I would like to propose a simple experiment to test whether your dearly-held beliefs are, in fact, true.

My post #20 was fairly extensive, and, I hope, eminently readable.

If your beliefs are correct, it should be possible for you to compose a similar post showing, say, five or ten individuals who were provably not communists, and whose life was destroyed without evidence. By McCarthy.

I am not saying that the Senator was warm and fuzzy, nor that his methods were not tough.

I am saying that within the politically tinted landscape of the time, he was correct and in fact, a hero.

If you accept the challenge, and cannot gather said infomation, I suggest you should begin to question who and why ill-informed you.

A hero? Forget the accuracy of his statements let's look at his tactics.

From the article linked to earlier.

"Exercising Fifth Amendment rights in these secret hearings was risky. In one hearing, McCarthy -- a Republican from Wisconsin elected to the Senate in 1946 -- threatened a New York City teacher who refused to answer all his questions.

According to the transcript, McCarthy asked an aide to transmit the testimony to the city's board of education.

"I assume with this testimony they will discharge this man," McCarthy said. He turned to the teacher and added, "I may say your wife's testimony is being transmitted to the board of education also. I assume she will be discharged too." "

Sounds like...well not a hero at least.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Not a whole lot of sources for said outline and this doesn't excuse him making reckless accusations (which you haven't denied him doing I noticed).

But OK back to your logic. I'm going to accuse everyone here of being an arsonist because you don't know how much a problem they are and they need to be scared into not lighting fires. Let's ignore the morality of it or the damage that could be done to a person as a result of such false accusations.

I honestly don't know why you're hellbent on trying to justify his despicable behavior.

Possibly because we're waking up to the blatant lies and propaganda mills called public school and universities...I wouldn't know if McCarthy was justified or not because I'd have to examine every accusation he made to make a judgment. I sure wouldn't trust what our liberal reconditioning institutions that pass for academia "teach" about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's not covered to some degree on Glenn Beck tomorrow night

So you think that most of academia is a vast conspiracy designed to indoctrinate kids into liberals?



There's a saying that goes extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, so do you have anything to back up that all, or most (not some) schools are in on that?

Have you declined the challenge?

 

[Father Time]

Possibly because we're waking up to the blatant lies and propaganda mills called public school and universities...I wouldn't know if McCarthy was justified or not because I'd have to examine every accusation he made to make a judgment. I sure wouldn't trust what our liberal reconditioning institutions that pass for academia "teach" about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's not covered to some degree on Glenn Beck tomorrow night

So you think that most of academia is a vast conspiracy designed to indoctrinate kids into liberals?



There's a saying that goes extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, so do you have anything to back up that all, or most (not some) schools are in on that?

Have you declined the challenge?

Was that the reckless challenge, well no and that's not relevant to this post at all.

That Verona thing I linked to you had the list of names and those that were proved to be working for the USSR. Look how little of them had been. I'd say he's about as accurate as a psychic, i.e. chance and nothing more.