For those who care for the truth about the Patriot Act enforcement

[Moi]

Judicial Review Present In "Sneak And Peak" Searches. SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): "So, Mr. Ashcroft, sitting in his office in the Department of Justice, doesn't decide to issue sort of sneak-and-peak search warrants without some independent judicial officer, some judge who has been confirmed by the United States Senate after nomination by the President, has had a chance to review it and determine that good cause exists for issuance of a delayed notification, is that correct, sir?" MR. PATRICK FITZGERALD, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY, NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS: "That's exactly right." (Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 10/21/03)


Records Requests Are Reviewed By Judge. SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): "And likewise, under Section 215, which authorizes searches for business records and other items under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, Mr. McNulty, isn't it the case that indeed before those searches take place that Article 3 judges on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court in fact have to review the application and approve it?" PAUL MCNULTY, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY, EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA: "That's right." (Committee On The Judiciary, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 10/21/03)


Justice Department Has Not Used PATRIOT Act Powers To Demand Records From Libraries. "After months of increasingly noisy protests, fears of Big Brother run amok and government warnings about needless 'hysteria,' the Justice Department gave its first public accounting today of how many times it had used its newfound counter terrorism powers to demand records from libraries and elsewhere. The answer is zero." (Eric Lichtblau, "U.S. Says It Has Not Used New Library Records Law," The New York Times, 9/19/03)


Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) Says ACLU Has No Instances Of Actual Abuse By PATRIOT Act. "I have never had a single abuse of the Patriot Act reported to me. My staff e-mailed the ACLU and asked them for instances of actual abuses. They e-mailed back and said they had none." (Sen. Dianne Feinstein [D-CA], Hearing Of The Senate Committee On The Judiciary, 10/21/03)


Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) Noted During Debate On PATRIOT Act, "The FBI Could Get A Wiretap To Investigate The Mafia, But They Could Not Get One To Investigate Terrorists. To Put It Bluntly, That Was Crazy! What's Good For The Mob Should Be Good For Terrorists." (Sen. Joe Biden, Congressional Record, 10/25/01, p.S11048)

 

[DKSuddeth]

I don't think the issue is that they HAVE abused, so far it seems that it hasn't happened. I think the issue SHOULD be the potentiality is there.

 

[Moi]

But as it is with every single law...this being no different. Abuse of law comes from both sides...the enforcers too. I still don't think the Patriot Act is as wide open for abuse as some claim. There are controls put into place.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
[BThere are controls put into place. [/B]

And the Nazis made sure the trains ran on time.

 

[eric]

Anyone remember the FBI under the direction of Hoover ?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
And the Nazis made sure the trains ran on time.

Is this what happens when you are soundly beaten in a debate? All your prior crap about the patriot act has been proven to be your paranoid delusions. Now you have to yet again make references to the nazi's when you've been made to look foolish.

The nazi comment didn't help, you still look foolish.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
And the Nazis made sure the trains ran on time.

Oh, good comeback. I'm now so convinced of the error of my ways because you brought up Nazi's.

I genuflect at the alter of your intelligence.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
Oh, good comeback. I'm now so convinced of the error of my ways because you brought up Nazi's.

I genuflect at the alter of your intelligence.

Ooh...Oww...Sarcasm.

Remember George Santayana...

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Ooh...Oww...Sarcasm.

Remember George Santayana...

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."

And here's one fitting for you:

FEAR:
F--FALSE
E--EVIDENCE
A--APPEARING
R--REAL

-Veer Sharma

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Ooh...Oww...Sarcasm.

Remember George Santayana...

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."

Sarcasm is about as convincing as the tripe you are spouting. The fact that Nazi's existed is not relevant to this country. You can't give one sound argument against the patriot act so you toss in the word Nazi in hopes that ignorant people will hear the word and just automatically associate the ill-will from it to the patriot act. You've yet to make a rational argument- all you say is that you fear that certain people will go too far.

Well, people go too far everyday with ordinary laws. So put them in jail. Don't sit there and spout off lies and throw accusations at people who believe in the law just because there are law breakers out there. The patriot act, as a law, clearly dictates under what conditions certain LEGAL activities can be taken by enforcement agencies. It also provides for checks and balances.

So stop trying to paint people who wrote, advocated for, and believe in the law as Nazis or anti-freedom or whatever little derogatory term you've used. Those with a brain won't fall for it.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
So stop trying to paint people who wrote, advocated for, and believe in the law as Nazis or anti-freedom or whatever little derogatory term you've used. Those with a brain won't fall for it.

Well, it seems they've done a pretty good job of that themselves.

While they may not be "...Nazis or anti-freedom..." they did allow themselves to be stampeded into passing, largely unread, a piece of legislation supported by a President who stated:

"Things would be alot easier if this was a dictatorship, and I was the dictator." - GWB

That he would make such a statement, even jokingly, should give one pause. The potential for disaster is there. In an interview with "<i>Cigar Afficionado</i>", Wesley Clark stated that another attack on US soil would lead to the suspension of the Constitution, which BTW, Dubbyuh and the rest of his cabinet are sworn to uphold.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Well, it seems they've done a pretty good job of that themselves.

While they may not be "...Nazis or anti-freedom..." they did allow themselves to be stampeded into passing, largely unread, a piece of legislation supported by a President who stated:

"Things would be alot easier if this was a dictatorship, and I was the dictator." - GWB

That he would make such a statement, even jokingly, should give one pause. The potential for disaster is there. In an interview with "<i>Cigar Afficionado</i>", Wesley Clark stated that another attack on US soil would lead to the suspension of the Constitution, which BTW, Dubbyuh and the rest of his cabinet are sworn to uphold.

Okay, which of us wouldn't think life easier if everyone had to do as we said? I, for one, would have a much easier time if the trains worked on my schedule, the taxis stopped charging me, my boss didn't expect me to come to work on time and my son did everything I said without comment.

Come on, you must be joking if you find that remark in any way applicable to this debate. Pres. Bush is not a nazi- he never was and never will be. As far as Clark goes, if he becomes president of the united states than maybe his prognosis about what will happen may matter to me. Since he hasn't yet won an election, his opinion means NOTHING.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
Pres. Bush is not a nazi- he never was and never will be.

Dubbyuh's not a Nazi, he's jusy your garden variety fascist. Grandpa Prescott was another thing entirely...

1937 Prescott Bush's investment firm sets up deal for the Luftwaffe so it can obtain tetraethyl lead.

1942 Three firms with which Prescott Bush is associated are seized under the Trading with the Enemy Act.

The Bush family has a history of dealing with anyone, anywhere, at anytime. Moral considerations are trumped by profit. But that's also been the case with the US government for decades.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
1937 Prescott Bush's investment firm sets up deal for the Luftwaffe so it can obtain tetraethyl lead.

1942 Three firms with which Prescott Bush is associated are seized under the Trading with the Enemy Act.

1978 The Pittsburgh Steelers win the Super Bowl.

1986 I graduated from High School.

My references have about as much to do with the current administration as yours do.

Do you think of Bush while banging your wife too?

 

[wonderwench]

The most critical reform of the PA is to enable intelligence and law enforcement agencies to share information. It is critical that the barriers be removed.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jimnyc
1978 The Pittsburgh Steelers win the Super Bowl.

1986 I graduated from High School.

My references have about as much to do with the current administration as yours do.

Do you think of Bush while banging your wife too?

Your analogies are false.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Ain't got nothin' to come out of. Just don't like my wife being dragged in the mud. But you're still a purulent sack of excrement.

And it's your job to pick up the excrement and piss. Have at it!

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jimnyc
And it's your job to pick up the excrement and piss. Have at it!

That's just one of the hazards of being an RN Jimmy boyo. It's a corporal act of mercy.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
...I truly do pity you. You could only have come to revel in such degradations as a result of your own formative experiences and degradation at the hands of others.

I hope you find the release from your inner torment that causes such anguish. Go in peace.

I gotta admit, I was laughing when I read this reply!

 

[wonderwench]

Originally posted by jimnyc
I gotta admit, I was laughing when I read this reply!

Yeah that was really a classic. You should adopt it as your signature!

"Just revelling revelling in the degradations of my formative experiences and at the hands of others"

LOL!