For those of you who think too much government spending goes to welfare...

[OohPooPahDoo]

United States Total Spending Pie Chart for 2012 - Charts

Health Care: 18%

Pensions: 16%

Defense: 15%

Education: 15%

Welfare: 11%

Doesn't it kind of freak you out that there is more spending on pensions than education, defense or welfare?

Doesn't it bother you more that our government and people have become so corrupt that 3 of those 4 categories are completely unconstitutional for the Federal government to be involved in and the people arent up in arms about it?

They are unconstitutional according to the fringe of right wing lunatics who ignore the intentions of some Founders while espousing the intentions of others, as they see fit, all the while mocking the authority of the Supreme Court to decide which of the Founders' conflicting intentions and interpretations should be applied in law.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Of course the best thing to do would be to get the economy working again.

Then welfare costs would automatically go down.

 

[naturegirl]

Doesn't it kind of freak you out that there is more spending on pensions than education, defense or welfare?

Doesn't it bother you more that our government and people have become so corrupt that 3 of those 4 categories are completely unconstitutional for the Federal government to be involved in and the people arent up in arms about it?

They are unconstitutional according to the fringe of right wing lunatics who ignore the intentions of some Founders while espousing the intentions of others, as they see fit, all the while mocking the authority of the Supreme Court to decide which of the Founders' conflicting intentions and interpretations should be applied in law.


There is also a basic lack of understanding of the English language and logic. Convenient to their argument, the fringe right will persistently argue that the Founders intended to confer no power to Congress by the 1st enumerated power of Article I Section 8. By their recent dislike of the Civil Rights Act, it is also evident they wish to ignore authority granted Congress in the final sections of Amendment XIV.

So you're saying there weren't any poor people when the founding fathers wrote the constitution?? They put in the Welfare clause for future generations because they knew there would be more people needing it in 250 years???

If they intended the government to take care of everyone, why didn't they set up a welfare system for the poor people that lived down the road from them??

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You twit. By that definition, if I am made happy by the government giving me a ferarri and a mansion, it is their responsibility to do so if by giving me anything less makes me unhappy.

What kind of fucked up co-dependent fucktardery are you pimping here?

Use the whole explanation instead of parsing out what you want it to mean.

Are you fucking retarded? I intentionally left the modern definition off so as not to further confuse you. I only included "welfare" as it would apply to the founders' intent.

Lay down that crack pipe and contact SCOTUS.

Why bother with enumerating the powers then if the government can simply do ANYTHING as long as they think it is in the interest of the general welfare. By that definition they can do ANYTHING. There is nothing that could not be twisted to fit in that context. Fortunately, they enumerated the powers so that the federal government was not the all powerful dictator that you want it to be. Most politicians simply like to ignore that though since all encompassing power is rather enticing...

Article I Section 8 Clause 1 grants Congress the authority to SPEND MONEY to promote the general welfare as they see fit, not to do ANYTHING they want to. There is a clear difference between the power to do ANYTHING and the power to SPEND.
The authority to spend money does not grant one the authority to do anything. This is common sense. Someone who is very rich can get a lot done just by spending money, but under the law, they can't do ANYTHING they want to. Donald Trump can do a lot with money but he can't appoint himself President, he can't legally have someone killed, he can't force everyone to eat beets. He can't even legally provide services that the Post Office provides without the permission of Congress, or legally coin money.

Article I Section 8 Clause 1 grants SPENDING authority, not REGULATORY authority. If Congress decides, for instance, it promotes the general welfare if everyone eats 4 servings of vegetables a day, they are allowed under Article I Section 8 Clause 1 to spend money to promote the idea of eating vegetables - but they are NOT allowed to pass laws requiring people eat a certain amount of vegetables or be penalized. Do you understand the difference between spending authority and regulatory authority?

 

[Stephanie]

What makes the constitution so sacred? I really don't understand it. The Founding Fathers - as smart as they were - didn't have it all figured out. I mean how could they? How could they predict how American society has evolved over the centuries?

Absolutely nothing if we ignore it.

But personally, I like freedom. I appreciate the fact that our Founders, using the knowledge and experience of thousands of years of human history, organized, what is still, the most perfect form of government revealed to man. I like the fact that they used this knowledge to ensure that power was invested in and around the people rather than in a central bureaucracy. I like the fact that they realize that human nature does not change and recognized the need to check human nature by separating power and localizing it.

See they realized something that far too many people ignore today: That human nature has not and will not change. At least, in our fallen state. So there must be safeguards enacted to prevent tyrants, dictators, and totalitarians from overrunning the people's freedom.

They realized that in order for people to reach their fullest potential, they have to be free to govern themselves. They need government to stay out of their way and allow them the freedom to fulfiill their responsibilities. Otherwise people suffer more than they need to.

If you don't understand what's amazing about the US Constitution than you either don't understand human nature or you don't understand the Constitution. I recommend studying both.

There's so much all-or-nothing thinking on this board, isn't there? You just automatically assume I hate freedom and the constitution. Where do you get off? I actually respect and admire the constitution a great deal.

However...

We NEED gov agencies like the EPA, TSA, FAA, FDA etc. Can you imagine what would happen if corporations could do whatever the hell they wanted? It's horrific to think about.

The only thing you respect, is big daddy Guberemnt.
You don't CARE what they can do to the people or how much it COST the WORKING taxpayers to keep them..

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nutters fancy themselves to be originalists because it is simple. The idea that one's entire philosophy regarding the governing of this country can be guided by THEIR INTERPRETATION of the United States Constitution is very appealing to them.

 

[Claudette]

The FF would turn over in their graves if they could see the Govt we have today. Big, bloated and taking peoples hard earned tax dollars and giving it to freeloaders around the country.

Shit. They pitched a bitch over $10,000 dollars that was given to French immigrants right after the Revolution. The French who helped us win that Revolution.

No. The GW clause isn't in the Const to allow Govt to redistribute other peoples money.

Funny that didn't start to happen until the 30's. Hell no one thought that tax dollars were a charity till then.

 

[editec]

United States Total Spending Pie Chart for 2012 - Charts

Health Care: 18%

Pensions: 16%

Defense: 15%

Education: 15%

Welfare: 11%

I'd argue that even that 11% number is overstated.

It includes things like workman's compensation and unemployment isnurance that are PRE funded by the workers and employers.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Nutters never give us a number when asked how many able-bodied American adults are living off of the government teat. They like to throw around generalizations like "scores", "too many", "record numbers", etc. But they NEVER provide the actual number.

 

[Claudette]

LMAO on that on LL.

This country is full of freeloaders. Folks who don't work. Don't wanna work. Why should they when Govt is giving them someone elses money?? Free ride baby. You can bet no one advertises the free ride either. Good luck on figures. LOL

 

[JoeB131]

United States Total Spending Pie Chart for 2012 - Charts

Health Care: 18%

Pensions: 16%

Defense: 15%

Education: 15%

Welfare: 11%

That's too much... considering a lot of those pensions and health care also go to the welfare class.

The whole problem with welfare is that we call it "entitlement" instead of "charity".

So instead of the attitude being "Thank you for helping me out, it is on me to improve my situation", the mentality becomes "You owe me! Keep it coming."

Which is why you have four generations of public housing, public assistance, food stamps and government health care.

 

[LoneLaugher]

LMAO on that on LL.

This country is full of freeloaders. Folks who don't work. Don't wanna work. Why should they when Govt is giving them someone elses money?? Free ride baby. You can bet no one advertises the free ride either. Good luck on figures. LOL

What does "full of" mean? HOW MANY ARE THERE?

Is it 1000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? Do you have any idea?

 

[Claudette]

Nope. But anyone with half a brain knows that freeloaders abound in America.

Hell. I know folks right now who survive on Welfare and have been doing so for years.

On lady in particular has her two kids fathered by her live in babys daddy.

The guys an elecrician and makes good money. Won't marry her because he will then have to support HIS kids. The taxpayers also payed for the birth of HIS kids.

She collects Welfare and Medicaid on the kids. He doesn't have to support em and has a free.They live pretty good on the charity extended by the Govt at taxpayer expense.

This is just one example. There are loads out there and if you think everyone on welfare is some poor soul who can't take care of themselves then you sir are living in la la land.

Govt shouldn't be in the charity business.

 

[Decepticon]

All one has to do to shame a conservative into silence on this issue is to compare the amounts of welfare expenditures to the amount of tax FRAUD committed by the uber wealthy. CONSERVATIVE estimates put tax fraud at 100 BILLION dollars a year. A 2004 investigation into the amount of tax fraud put it at almost the ENTIRE BUDGET for MEDICARE.
Funny how government spending is such a HUGE issue, but outright THEFT from the people of this nation is no big deal.

 

[Claudette]

Theft is a big deal to me. Doesn't matter if it a freeloader on Welfare or a corporation or a person.

They should all be prosecuted.

 

[Meister]

All one has to do to shame a conservative into silence on this issue is to compare the amounts of welfare expenditures to the amount of tax FRAUD committed by the uber wealthy. CONSERVATIVE estimates put tax fraud at 100 BILLION dollars a year. A 2004 investigation into the amount of tax fraud put it at almost the ENTIRE BUDGET for MEDICARE.
Funny how government spending is such a HUGE issue, but outright THEFT from the people of this nation is no big deal.

If my recolection is correct, there are more "uber wealthy" democrats than republicans, now just what are you talking about?

 

[bripat9643]

United States Total Spending Pie Chart for 2012 - Charts

Health Care: 18%

Pensions: 16%

Defense: 15%

Education: 15%

Welfare: 11%

Aside from defense, it's all welfare, dipshit.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

All one has to do to shame a conservative into silence on this issue is to compare the amounts of welfare expenditures to the amount of tax FRAUD committed by the uber wealthy. CONSERVATIVE estimates put tax fraud at 100 BILLION dollars a year. A 2004 investigation into the amount of tax fraud put it at almost the ENTIRE BUDGET for MEDICARE.
Funny how government spending is such a HUGE issue, but outright THEFT from the people of this nation is no big deal.

If my recolection is correct, there are more "uber wealthy" democrats than republicans, now just what are you talking about?

Not to mention tax fraud is not a crime of ideology. If it were Kerry wouldn't have parked his big ass boat out of state.

 

[naturegirl]

All one has to do to shame a conservative into silence on this issue is to compare the amounts of welfare expenditures to the amount of tax FRAUD committed by the uber wealthy. CONSERVATIVE estimates put tax fraud at 100 BILLION dollars a year. A 2004 investigation into the amount of tax fraud put it at almost the ENTIRE BUDGET for MEDICARE.
Funny how government spending is such a HUGE issue, but outright THEFT from the people of this nation is no big deal.

If my recolection is correct, there are more "uber wealthy" democrats than republicans, now just what are you talking about?

I believe we had a thread on all that. Dems are richer.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/191286-whos-richer-republicans-or-dems.html

 

[bripat9643]

Pensions include Social Security which people paid into their entire working lives (government currently owes Social Security about $2.5 trillion).

Health Care includes Medicare which people paid into their entire working lives.

Social Security is the government, turd. People may have paid into it all their lives, but the government spent every dime they paid. The money current beneficiaries receive comes from new taxes, not any "trust fund" they put money into.

Social Security is welfare. So is Medicare.