For the Stupid people on the LeFT. The difference between Fast and Furious and WR.

[bodecea]

The Difference Between Bush’s ‘Wide Receiver’ and Obama’s ‘Fast and Furious’ | The Lonely Conservative

The key differences are that Operation Wide Receiver tracked the firearms that were “walked” into Mexico, and the operation was carried out in conjunction with Mexican authorities. With Operation Fast and Furious, on the other hand, there was no effort made to track the weapons once they “walked” across the border, and the US government never informed the Mexicans of the operation. At a hearing this week, Senator Jon Cornyn (R) made the distinction perfectly clear.

You see with WR. The program is the guns were tagged and the Mexican Government knew about the program .. With FnF the guns were NOT tagged and the Mexican Government DID NOT KNOW about the program..

Another difference, Wide Receiver really was an attempt at a sting operation aimed at the cartels.

Fast & Furious? Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
December 7, 2011 1:44 PM
By
Sharyl Attkisson


Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.


In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

...

Those claiming that the accusation that this debacle was an attempt towards further gun control is some sort of 'folly', are either ignorant of what has already been discovered or truly amoral.

They do that to fire up the 2nd Amendment people....

 

[Annie]

So...is Wide Receiver worse than Watergate, or what? Bush placed guns into the hands of Mexican drug dealers. I'm sure they weren't used for parades.

Distraction.

Wide receiver tagged the guns with gps tracking devices. Quickly learned that criminals aren't as stupid as they believed. Program ended.

Fast & furious comes along over a year later, they don't bother with tracking devices, they just let the guns walk.

 

[g5000]

So...is Wide Receiver worse than Watergate, or what? Bush placed guns into the hands of Mexican drug dealers. I'm sure they weren't used for parades.

Distraction.

Wide receiver tagged the guns with gps tracking devices. Quickly learned that criminals aren't as stupid as they believed. Program ended.

It took them more than once to learn that? Wide Receiver was not one sale. It was several over the period 2006-2007.

"Dang it! They keep getting away! Let's try that again..."

How stupid are you?

Nice try. And I'm sure your attempts are a real comfort to the dead men, women, and children of Mexico.

But what do they count compared to one border patrol agent, amiright?

 

[Sallow]

The Difference Between Bush’s ‘Wide Receiver’ and Obama’s ‘Fast and Furious’ | The Lonely Conservative

The key differences are that Operation Wide Receiver tracked the firearms that were “walked” into Mexico, and the operation was carried out in conjunction with Mexican authorities. With Operation Fast and Furious, on the other hand, there was no effort made to track the weapons once they “walked” across the border, and the US government never informed the Mexicans of the operation. At a hearing this week, Senator Jon Cornyn (R) made the distinction perfectly clear.

You see with WR. The program is the guns were tagged and the Mexican Government knew about the program .. With FnF the guns were NOT tagged and the Mexican Government DID NOT KNOW about the program..

Which is a load of bull.

Wide Reciever was stopped because it didn't catch anyone..and was viewed as a failure.

And it was the head of the ATF from 2007..a Bush hire..that recommended that the practice be used again.

That..and it's impossible to determine whether guns from FF or WR were used to kill Terry.

Or if it came from EITHER program.

In any case..the remedy was enacted. Holder banned the practice and either fired or moved people involved.

What's going on now is a witch hunt meant to usurp power.

And this shit has got to stop.

 

[Sallow]

So...is Wide Receiver worse than Watergate, or what? Bush placed guns into the hands of Mexican drug dealers. I'm sure they weren't used for parades.

Distraction.

Wide receiver tagged the guns with gps tracking devices. Quickly learned that criminals aren't as stupid as they believed. Program ended.

Fast & furious comes along over a year later, they don't bother with tracking devices, they just let the guns walk.

Quickly?

The program went on for a year.

 

[Ravi]

So...is Wide Receiver worse than Watergate, or what? Bush placed guns into the hands of Mexican drug dealers. I'm sure they weren't used for parades.

Distraction.

Wide receiver tagged the guns with gps tracking devices. Quickly learned that criminals aren't as stupid as they believed. Program ended.

It took them more than once to learn that? Wide Receiver was not one sale. It was several over the period 2006-2007.

"Dang it! They keep getting away! Let's try that again..."

How stupid are you?

Nice try. And I'm sure your attempts are a real comfort to the dead men, women, and children of Mexico.

But what do they count compared to one border patrol agent, amiright?

The ATF needs to have their ass reamed.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Difference Between Bush’s ‘Wide Receiver’ and Obama’s ‘Fast and Furious’ | The Lonely Conservative

The key differences are that Operation Wide Receiver tracked the firearms that were “walked” into Mexico, and the operation was carried out in conjunction with Mexican authorities. With Operation Fast and Furious, on the other hand, there was no effort made to track the weapons once they “walked” across the border, and the US government never informed the Mexicans of the operation. At a hearing this week, Senator Jon Cornyn (R) made the distinction perfectly clear.

You see with WR. The program is the guns were tagged and the Mexican Government knew about the program .. With FnF the guns were NOT tagged and the Mexican Government DID NOT KNOW about the program..

Which is a load of bull.

Wide Reciever was stopped because it didn't catch anyone..and was viewed as a failure.

And it was the head of the ATF from 2007..a Bush hire..that recommended that the practice be used again.

That..and it's impossible to determine whether guns from FF or WR were used to kill Terry.

Or if it came from EITHER program.

In any case..the remedy was enacted. Holder banned the practice and either fired or moved people involved.

What's going on now is a witch hunt meant to usurp power.

And this shit has got to stop.

WR was a failure and stopped, F&F Got Brian Terry and more people in Mexico killed.

Do you call that a success?

Why doesn't Biden say if he had a son he'd look like Brian Terry?

 

[Annie]

So...is Wide Receiver worse than Watergate, or what? Bush placed guns into the hands of Mexican drug dealers. I'm sure they weren't used for parades.

Distraction.

Wide receiver tagged the guns with gps tracking devices. Quickly learned that criminals aren't as stupid as they believed. Program ended.

It took them more than once to learn that? Wide Receiver was not one sale. It was several over the period 2006-2007.

"Dang it! They keep getting away! Let's try that again..."

How stupid are you?

Nice try. And I'm sure your attempts are a real comfort to the dead men, women, and children of Mexico.

But what do they count compared to one border patrol agent, amiright?

Seriously? You are this dense? Or perhaps you are just a partisan? Check out link below, there video there with Holder explaining the differences:

http://thehayride.com/2012/06/eric-holders-contradictory-fast-and-furious-statements/

...Here’s what actually happened with Wide Receiver, and how it differs from Fast And Furious…

In Operation Wide Receiver, Tucson agents allowed the sales of more than 500 firearms to known straw purchasers. This was in 2006 and 2007. The Mexican government was consulted and knew about the operation. The guns were supposed to be traced so the purchasers could be arrested when they crossed the border with them.

Some firearms in Wide Receiver were equipped with RFID tracking devices. In Wide Receiver, the illegal purchasers were familiar with ATF’s procedures and methods and how to evade their aerial and electronic tracking procedures.

For example, they knew how long government surveillance planes would be aloft. The buyers had a simple method of getting their purchases across the border undetected. They simply drove four-hour loops around the area. And when the surveillance planes had to return to base for re-fueling, the smugglers simply turned and sprinted their cargo across the border.

What’s more, the RFID tags also turned out to be problematic. Rather than making large enough holes for the tags to be laid out inside weapons, agents force-fit them into the rifles. That cramming caused the antennae to be folded, reducing the effective range of the tags. And an already short battery life (36-48 hours maximum) meant that should purchasers allow the firearms to sit, the tracking devices eliminated themselves.

So it was an operation that proved impossible to implement, and Wide Receiver was discontinued well more than a year before Bush left office...

 

[konradv]

You see with WR. The program is the guns were tagged and the Mexican Government knew about the program .. With FnF the guns were NOT tagged and the Mexican Government DID NOT KNOW about the program..

How does that distinction make the guns any less deadly?

 

[Sallow]

The Difference Between Bush’s ‘Wide Receiver’ and Obama’s ‘Fast and Furious’ | The Lonely Conservative





You see with WR. The program is the guns were tagged and the Mexican Government knew about the program .. With FnF the guns were NOT tagged and the Mexican Government DID NOT KNOW about the program..

Which is a load of bull.

Wide Reciever was stopped because it didn't catch anyone..and was viewed as a failure.

And it was the head of the ATF from 2007..a Bush hire..that recommended that the practice be used again.

That..and it's impossible to determine whether guns from FF or WR were used to kill Terry.

Or if it came from EITHER program.

In any case..the remedy was enacted. Holder banned the practice and either fired or moved people involved.

What's going on now is a witch hunt meant to usurp power.

And this shit has got to stop.

WR was a failure and stopped, F&F Got Brian Terry and more people in Mexico killed.

Do you call that a success?

Why doesn't Biden say if he had a son he'd look like Brian Terry?

Got a link that Brian Terry was killed by either a gun from F&F or WR?

I mean real live forensic evidence that matches bullet to gun.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Which is a load of bull.

Wide Reciever was stopped because it didn't catch anyone..and was viewed as a failure.

And it was the head of the ATF from 2007..a Bush hire..that recommended that the practice be used again.

That..and it's impossible to determine whether guns from FF or WR were used to kill Terry.

Or if it came from EITHER program.

In any case..the remedy was enacted. Holder banned the practice and either fired or moved people involved.

What's going on now is a witch hunt meant to usurp power.

And this shit has got to stop.

WR was a failure and stopped, F&F Got Brian Terry and more people in Mexico killed.

Do you call that a success?

Why doesn't Biden say if he had a son he'd look like Brian Terry?

Got a link that Brian Terry was killed by either a gun from F&F or WR?

I mean real live forensic evidence that matches bullet to gun.

Holder's guns were found at the scene. The bullets that killed Terry could not be positively matched, it was too damaged

Facts are STUBBORN Things”
“…and whatever our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams, December 1770

Senate Judiciary Committee Oversight Hearing with Attorney General Eric Holder, Nov. 8, 2011

Connection Between Fast and Furious and Agent Terry’s Death

Attorney General Holder to Senator Cornyn: “It is not fair, however, to assume that the mistakes that happened in Fast and Furious led directly to the death of Agent Terry.”

FACT
According to the FBI, two weapons were found at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. The bullet removed from Agent Terry matched the caliber of those two weapons, not the caliber of the weapons in possession of the Border Patrol agents, so it appears he did not die from friendly fire. Congressional investigators have asked the FBI to explain its theory of the case, since if there was no third gun at the scene and the bullet didn’t come from the Border Patrol, there must still be an unknown third gun which law enforcement has not yet recovered. It is possible that that third gun is not related to Fast and Furious. However, since two guns walked in Fast and Furious were present, it is possible that a third may have been as well. The two found at the scene were both part of a lot of three weapons purchased by known straw buyer Jaime Avila on the same day in January 2010."

Facts are STUBBORN Things, the Connection between Fast and Furious and Agent Terry's Death

If Holder did not believe that Obama's F&F Operating got Brian Terry killed, why the cover up?

Why won't Holder and Obama just come out clean if they didn't have a hand in Terry's death?

Why are they evincing a consciousness of guilt? Guilty people hide, innocent people will step forward and release documents. Clearly Obama and Holder have something to hide.

If it's not that their F&F guns were used to kill Terry, then what?

 

[Sallow]

WR was a failure and stopped, F&F Got Brian Terry and more people in Mexico killed.

Do you call that a success?

Why doesn't Biden say if he had a son he'd look like Brian Terry?

Got a link that Brian Terry was killed by either a gun from F&F or WR?

I mean real live forensic evidence that matches bullet to gun.

Holder's guns were found at the scene. The bullets that killed Terry could not be positively matched, it was too damaged

Facts are STUBBORN Things”
“…and whatever our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams, December 1770

Senate Judiciary Committee Oversight Hearing with Attorney General Eric Holder, Nov. 8, 2011

Connection Between Fast and Furious and Agent Terry’s Death

Attorney General Holder to Senator Cornyn: “It is not fair, however, to assume that the mistakes that happened in Fast and Furious led directly to the death of Agent Terry.”

FACT
According to the FBI, two weapons were found at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry. The bullet removed from Agent Terry matched the caliber of those two weapons, not the caliber of the weapons in possession of the Border Patrol agents, so it appears he did not die from friendly fire. Congressional investigators have asked the FBI to explain its theory of the case, since if there was no third gun at the scene and the bullet didn’t come from the Border Patrol, there must still be an unknown third gun which law enforcement has not yet recovered. It is possible that that third gun is not related to Fast and Furious. However, since two guns walked in Fast and Furious were present, it is possible that a third may have been as well. The two found at the scene were both part of a lot of three weapons purchased by known straw buyer Jaime Avila on the same day in January 2010."

Facts are STUBBORN Things, the Connection between Fast and Furious and Agent Terry's Death

If Holder did not believe that Obama's F&F Operating got Brian Terry killed, why the cover up?

Why won't Holder and Obama just come out clean if they didn't have a hand in Terry's death?

Why are they evincing a consciousness of guilt? Guilty people hide, innocent people will step forward and release documents. Clearly Obama and Holder have something to hide.

If it's not that their F&F guns were used to kill Terry, then what?

What cover up?

Once Holder got wind of the program he shut it down.

And the guns could have come from Wide Receiver..unless guns that the Bush ATF put at there magically disappeared.

I'm also wondering why this was so important to investigate when there is clear evidence that the Iraq war was prosecuted on bogus intel. How did F&F get ahead of the line?

That's over 4000 Brian Terrys.

Where's your outrage with that one..ace?