for the gun control advocates

[SmarterThanYou]

prove to me how the 2nd amendment doesn't guarantee individual gun ownership?

 

[5stringJeff]

This will be fun to see.

I think acludem was the only person I've seen logically take that stance, though I haven't seen him for months.

 

[dmp]

 

[MyName]

Hell I dont know anything about any of that as you know.

However, when I was working at the ER I saw more than one child with a bullet in the face (not to mention all that Ive not seen yet read about or heard about from the news etc), from a parent's gun. Also...MIGHT I add that EACH parent was screaming one or more of the following:
A. But the gun was put up/locked up/hidden and there isnt ANY way that my child could have either gotten to it or even known where it was
B. But Im VERY knowledgable with weapons and my weapon was unloaded and not in the reach of my child
C. But I teach my children NOT to mess with my gunS!

All good things - however, in all cases, their child was dead.

Its enough for me.

 

[insein]

Hell I dont know anything about any of that as you know.

However, when I was working at the ER I saw more than one child with a bullet in the face (not to mention all that Ive not seen yet read about or heard about from the news etc), from a parent's gun. Also...MIGHT I add that EACH parent was screaming one or more of the following:
A. But the gun was put up/locked up/hidden and there isnt ANY way that my child could have either gotten to it or even known where it was
B. But Im VERY knowledgable with weapons and my weapon was unloaded and not in the reach of my child
C. But I teach my children NOT to mess with my gunS!

All good things - however, in all cases, their child was dead.

Its enough for me.

Probably in a majority of those cases (despite C), the parents never mentioned the dangers of the gun to their kids or ever taught them gun safety. Therefore an uninformed child would see it as just another toy.

 

[MyName]

Probably in a majority of those cases (despite C), the parents never mentioned the dangers of the gun to their kids or ever taught them gun safety. Therefore an uninformed child would see it as just another toy.

I cannot speak for the majority. I can only speak for the 2 that I dealt with personally and actually....I can also speak as a mother of my own children.
In the 2 cases that I was present during, both told anyone who would listen, 'but I TOLD my children the dangers, I worked with them on proper use of a gun....I STRESSED that this isnt a toy!" (or similar words - forgive me if several years later I cannot remember the exacts)

Re. being a parent, I have learned many things about children including that the things that are most forbidden to them are the things that are most seductive to them.

 

[MyName]

Love your sig!
:teeth:

 

[Yurt]

Hell I dont know anything about any of that as you know.

However, when I was working at the ER I saw more than one child with a bullet in the face (not to mention all that Ive not seen yet read about or heard about from the news etc), from a parent's gun. Also...MIGHT I add that EACH parent was screaming one or more of the following:
A. But the gun was put up/locked up/hidden and there isnt ANY way that my child could have either gotten to it or even known where it was
B. But Im VERY knowledgable with weapons and my weapon was unloaded and not in the reach of my child
C. But I teach my children NOT to mess with my gunS!

All good things - however, in all cases, their child was dead.

Its enough for me.

I don't see how this answers the original question:

prove to me how the 2nd amendment doesn't guarantee individual gun ownership?

 

[Gem]

MyName,

Let me begin by saying that it must have been absolutely nightmarish to have to experience the accidents you have seen due to the misuse of firearms. What I am about to say is not belittling that...

But Benjamin Franklin once stated that those who are willing to sacrifice freedoms for safety deserve neither...and its a quote that we, as Americans, should consider very carefully before we go and give up Constitutional rights because parents did a crappy job keeping their firearms away from their children.

The First Amendment can be a very dangerous thing as well...the right words can inspire ill people to do all sorts of disgusting things. Murder, rape, genocide, terrorism...all of these ghastly things have been, at one time or another, spurned on by someone using words...speeches...books...to influence another to do terrible things.

Should we forbid everyone from saying anything publically that might be considered "dangerous?" Louis Farrakkan recently said to a group of African-Americans, "If there was ever a people who deserved to strap on a bomb, and inflict pain for the pain that we have sufferred, it is us." WOW. How could that be interpreted by a young black man going through some hard times????? Should we arrest Farrakkan?

How about a right to privacy? Should the police be able to search your house without a warrant if they know there is criminal activity going on inside but can't prove it?!? I mean, afterall...how many cases are on the record of criminals getting off the hook because the police found drugs in their car trunk but didn't have a warrant so it was dismissed...surely the greater good (public safety) should win out over the right of one criminal to not have his car trunk opened without a warrant....RIGHT?

You have seen terrible things...and it would make any normal person wonder if the right to bear arms was worth it. However to start cutting chunks out of the Constitution because a very small number of people (yes, it feels like a lot when you see it in person...but compared to the number of gun owners, it is very small) don't keep their guns in a safe location, is a remarkably BAD idea.

 

[manu1959]

prove to me how the 2nd amendment doesn't guarantee individual gun ownership?

since i am bored

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

in the context of the sentence, if you are not part of a militia then you don't have the right

 

[5stringJeff]

since i am bored

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

in the context of the sentence, if you are not part of a militia then you don't have the right

Wrong. The militia was the free citizenry, all of whom used their private arms to defend the town/county/state at a moment's notice. They kept their own arms. That's why the right to bear arms is an individual right.

 

[manu1959]

Wrong. The militia was the free citizenry, all of whom used their private arms to defend the town/county/state at a moment's notice. They kept their own arms. That's why the right to bear arms is an individual right.

you just said what i just said

 

[Mr. P]

you just said what i just said

Stop makin fun of the less intellectually fortunate.

 

[SmarterThanYou]

Stop makin fun of the less intellectually fortunate.

did you just call gop jeff 'less intellectually fortunate'????

 

[007]

since i am bored

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

in the context of the sentence, if you are not part of a militia then you don't have the right

Whether you chose to own a weapon or not, and most did because it was a tool for survival, was NOT to be INFRINGED. You must have missed that part. Either that, or you're thinking backwards. If you had a gun, you could be part of the militia, but whether or not you owned one was entirely up to you, or if you could AFFORD one. A lot of people in colonial America didn't have a penny to their name, let alone a gun.

 

[Mr. P]

did you just call gop jeff 'less intellectually fortunate'????

Lord no! we may have another thread locked..

 

[MyName]

I don't see how this answers the original question:

It doesnt - I even made reference in my first sentence in regards to the fact that I am ignorant in those matters.

Smarter is my husband and the gun issue is soething we discuss a lot. I dont miss an opportunity to put my 2 cents in

:cof:

 

[MyName]

MyName,

Let me begin by saying that it must have been absolutely nightmarish to have to experience the accidents you have seen due to the misuse of firearms. What I am about to say is not belittling that...

But Benjamin Franklin once stated that those who are willing to sacrifice freedoms for safety deserve neither...and its a quote that we, as Americans, should consider very carefully before we go and give up Constitutional rights because parents did a crappy job keeping their firearms away from their children.

The First Amendment can be a very dangerous thing as well...the right words can inspire ill people to do all sorts of disgusting things. Murder, rape, genocide, terrorism...all of these ghastly things have been, at one time or another, spurned on by someone using words...speeches...books...to influence another to do terrible things.

Should we forbid everyone from saying anything publically that might be considered "dangerous?" Louis Farrakkan recently said to a group of African-Americans, "If there was ever a people who deserved to strap on a bomb, and inflict pain for the pain that we have sufferred, it is us." WOW. How could that be interpreted by a young black man going through some hard times????? Should we arrest Farrakkan?

How about a right to privacy? Should the police be able to search your house without a warrant if they know there is criminal activity going on inside but can't prove it?!? I mean, afterall...how many cases are on the record of criminals getting off the hook because the police found drugs in their car trunk but didn't have a warrant so it was dismissed...surely the greater good (public safety) should win out over the right of one criminal to not have his car trunk opened without a warrant....RIGHT?

You have seen terrible things...and it would make any normal person wonder if the right to bear arms was worth it. However to start cutting chunks out of the Constitution because a very small number of people (yes, it feels like a lot when you see it in person...but compared to the number of gun owners, it is very small) don't keep their guns in a safe location, is a remarkably BAD idea.

Hi
I had to take a minute and compose myself because the Benjamin Frankling quote is something that my husband, DK (SmarterThanYou) says all the time.



I dont think that I communicate myself well re. this....what I mean, is that I am not FOR abolishing guns. Not at all. I dont want one myself because personally I am afraid of them and I know that one could be easily taken from me and used against me. I truly do have a sort of 'paranoia' I guess regarding guns....that is why people like me have no business with them. However, I am glad that my husbnad has them and I DO feel safer knowing that he can protect us if it ever came down to it (which I hope to God it never does).

My issue is this..... There is NO reason that a child of any age should ever accidentally hurt themselves or another because of their parent's gun(s).
Actually, there IS one reason. Irresponsibility on the part of the parent.
Please understand, Im not about making these parents feel even worse at the worse moment of their life. Im really not.

I guess what Im saying is that I can see the point for those who would advocated gun control from the viewpoint of my original post at least.
But that [gun control] is NOT the answer either, IMO.

I think the answer to this is the same answer that applies to so many situations these days.....
People need to be more responsible and TAKE more PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. I see such an 'entitlement issue' in so many kids and adults. Nothing is ever their fault. They THOUGHT that they did whatever....(and so forth). IMO, its disturbing at the very least....as well as so very sad.

I do want to thank you for your post in response to mine....
I appreciate the way that you worded it and offered me the allowance of my own point of view, even if you didnt agree with it. I dont see that much these days, and it was really refreshing!
Thank you

 

[Annie]

since i am bored

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

in the context of the sentence, if you are not part of a militia then you don't have the right

Perhaps, then I saw this:

http://blog.ianhamet.com/index.php/archive/2005/05/13/518/

If you favor gun control of any stripe, please read and attempt the following:

A well regulated Intelligentsia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed.

Convince me, using only the text above,

* that this sentence does not guarantee an individual right, only a “collective” right;

* or that this sentence means that the only legitimate intelligentsia is the one controlled by government;

* or that this sentence allows the government to decide which books are safe and which are dangerous, and permits it to ban those it does not approve, and to dictate how all books under private ownership must be stored;

* or that this sentence permits the government to require the registration of all books and book owners.

Now there are a few rules here.

1. You may not dismiss the authors of the sentence as being “dead white men” who “wore powdered wigs, so maybe they got a few other things wrong, too.” If you support gun control, then you subscribe to the belief that an object with no will can be good or evil, a decidedly odd thought. Address the text, not its authors.

2. You may not bring up “wacko right-wing militia men” who support this and suggest that, because of them, it is bad. Hitler liked sugar, and so do you. Address the text, not its adherents.

3. You may not dismiss it as “not applying to today,” unless you point out a clear term limit or expiration date within the text, or show another amendment that explicitly annulls this one. (Besides, you never know when what is useless today will be invaluable tomorrow.) Address the text, not your pipe dreams.

Hmm, am I being pissy? Probably. Anyway, it occurred to me to post this, and here it is.

 

[elephant]

Hell I dont know anything about any of that as you know.

However, when I was working at the ER I saw more than one child with a bullet in the face (not to mention all that Ive not seen yet read about or heard about from the news etc), from a parent's gun. Also...MIGHT I add that EACH parent was screaming one or more of the following:
A. But the gun was put up/locked up/hidden and there isnt ANY way that my child could have either gotten to it or even known where it was
B. But Im VERY knowledgable with weapons and my weapon was unloaded and not in the reach of my child
C. But I teach my children NOT to mess with my gunS!

All good things - however, in all cases, their child was dead.

Its enough for me.

This is exactly why my gun is strapped to my hip. If a kid is going to accidently kill himself with my gun, the kid will have to shoot me first.