For The Chronically Confused -

[Moonglow]

Everybody has access to Wiki. What's your point?

I've always been fascinated by modern-day Democrats' requisition of the term "liberal" to describe themselves, and claiming the Founding Fathers were "liberal" in order to present a connection with them and the current politically ill-named liberalism. That the opposition went along with it and adopted the term is equally fascinating.

Indeed, the Founding Fathers were liberal - in the classic definition. Modern-day "liberalism" is about as close to that classic definition as Voyager 1 is to Altoona, Pennsylvania, and is more akin to the various degrees of socialistic and totalitarian thought that fucked up a large part of the 20th Century and is threatening a repeat performance, this time where one would have least expected it.

Hence the assorted references.

Ummm --- that isn't who's been misusing the term. Go look up "Red Scare". Go look up "Joe McCarthy". THAT is where the conflation of "Liberal" as being some kind of synonym for either "left" or "Democrat" goes back to. Those demagogues trafficked in bullshit and deserve nothing from us in the way of attention. "Liberal" has nothing to do with "totalitarian thought". It really has nothing to do with "left" either. A Liberal may be a Democrat, a Republican, some other party, or like me no party at all.

My simple example: A Liberal says "all men are created equal". A leftist tries to make it happen through "Affirmative Action". They are not the same thing.

Much more here, for your edification.

Next time try to put a cogent thought together if you're gonna make a thread. Have a point in mind.

Another Polyvinylchic drone...redefining the pigeon hole...

 

[regent]

There are some core beliefs to the various political ideologies, those core beliefs do not change, but what does change is the means to carry out those core beliefs. For example, the size and role of government are not core beliefs but government can be the means to carry out core beliefs.
When our government was British and government's goal was to help the noble class, ordinary citizens were against big government. Over time, when people saw government as helping ordinary citizens not the elites attitudes toward the size and role of government changed.

 

[Pogo]

There are some core beliefs to the various political ideologies, those core beliefs do not change, but what does change is the means to carry out those core beliefs. For example, the size and role of government are not core beliefs but government can be the means to carry out core beliefs.
When our government was British and government's goal was to help the noble class, ordinary citizens were against big government. Over time, when people saw government as helping ordinary citizens not the elites attitudes toward the size and role of government changed.

A century and a half ago, the fairly-new Republican Party was the party of "big government", of using the power of the Fed to tweak the economy and bring about the first affirmative action in the form of land grants. The Democratic Party of the time was the "states rights" party and full of conservatives.

Both of them morphed in the later 19th century, the RP taking on the interests of Big Bidness and the DP taking on the Populist movement. At base, neither of them has anything to do with "right", "left", "Liberal" or "conservative". As political parties, all they have to do with is winning elections, via whatever ideology is expedient at the time.