For Non-Christians, do you know What the Bible is and What it says?

[Neubarth]

I. Am. Not. Christian.

Even if you are right, which you are not, Neuberth.

WTF do YOU plan to do when you discover you were wrong all this time?

Quite frankly, I would never be wrong. I am just telling people what the Bible says. Indeed, it could have errors in it. I have not found any and I have been looking for a long long time. Perhaps you need to know what the Bible is to me and other professors of history.

The Bible is (at the very least) just the collective writings of people who were earnestly seeking after God. It includes the traditional allegorical Creation story that I see as obviously not historical, but an excellent description of the relationship of mankind to God. It best explains why we need God. Without God, society usually decays and evil abounds.

After that, the Bible tells the history of the Jewish people as they remembered it in oral tradition passed on from generation to generation. I suppose there is some way that it could be in error, but all archeological evidence found to date substantiates the Jewish history. There is no refutation from archeology.

After that there are books of songs and poetry. The songs and poetry are beautiful when sung or read in Hebrew. Some of them are pretty darn good as translated into King James English. I am aware that in the translation some of the original intent could have been lost, so I usually look at multiple translations and even paraphrases if I am looking for content, but for the most part I like the linguistic art of those wonderful songs and poems just because they were and are so beautiful and I leave it at that.

THEN COMES THE IMPORTANT PART, THE PROPHECY BOOKS! They start in the Old Testament and continue on through the Revelation of John. In the Middle of the Prophecy books are the New Testament historical books. They show many of the fullfilled Prophecies, so are just where they need to be.

I look at the prophecies and see that they are coming true one after another exactly as predicted. That, to me, is very, very impressive. THE ONLY THINGS THAT HAVE NOT COME TRUE TO DATE ARE THE PROPHECIES FOR THE LAST DAYS. The Last Days are supposed to be the last seven years of the Earth and are also referred to as the Tribulation. Are we in the Last Days? I think so, but there is no way of knowing until one of the prophecies for the Last Days comes true. We could be over three years into the Last Days before we see that happen. You have to know what the prophecies for the last days are. Essentially, I am just waiting and looking, with both fear and anticipation. I believe in a Middle of the Tribulation rapture. Most Christians disagree with me, with the majority of them believing in a Pre Tribulation Rapture.

Still, there is always the possibility that you could be correct and all of this is just foolishness.

If you disagree with what it says in the Bible, and you are right, more power to you.

Of course, if you are wrong, the Bible says you will die in your sins and suffer eternal separation from God and the Family of God.

That, as best I can tell, is what Hell is, Eternal Separation. The Bible says very little about the Hell that all nonbelievers will be sent to after the Last Judgment. Remember that Hell is supposed to be an entirely different place than the place (Sheol) where souls wait prior to the Last Judgment.

The Bible describes the Last Judgment Hell as Outer Darkness. So, as best I can tell, if you die and have refused to receive God into your life, you are banished from the presence of God for all eternity and you soul is sent to a place to be alone for all eternity in total absence of light. Just you and your thoughts for all eternity, no fellowship, no pot, no alcohol, NOTHING!

IF that were me, I'd find the ON - OFF switch and turn OFF my thought process. Hopefully there is one somewhere on the soul.

 

[Neubarth]

The Bible is there for all to read.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Not interested coming from you.

 

[konradv]

I suppose there is some way that it could be in error, but all archeological evidence found to date substantiates the Jewish history. There is no refutation from archeology.
--------------------------------

I saw a show(History Channel, I think) highlighting a dig in Israel in which the primary archeologist said that they couldn't find anything to substantiate the "Joshua and the Ten Tribes Conquer Canaan" story. Rather, it seems there was a slow influx of people from the outside intermingling with the Canaanites. While that doesn't prove the Bible wrong on that score, it certainly doesn't help the biblical account.

 

[Neubarth]

I suppose there is some way that it could be in error, but all archeological evidence found to date substantiates the Jewish history. There is no refutation from archeology.
--------------------------------

I saw a show(History Channel, I think) highlighting a dig in Israel in which the primary archeologist said that they couldn't find anything to substantiate the "Joshua and the Ten Tribes Conquer Canaan" story. Rather, it seems there was a slow influx of people from the outside intermingling with the Canaanites. While that doesn't prove the Bible wrong on that score, it certainly doesn't help the biblical account.

The Caanites were a result of a constant influx of people. Caanan is located where three continents come together and mass migrations of people have always occurred there.

It is important to note that the professor saying that does not refute the Bible. He was just stating the obvious.

Consider this. The town that they believe to be Jericho most definitely had its walls fall down. When they fell down is open to assumption, but not refutation.

 

[Neubarth]

Not interested coming from you.

Just because you propositioned me in writing on this forum, and I told you as I have told thousands and thousands of women who have done the same that I am married and I totally honor my marriage vows does not mean that I am not an authority on history. My major in history was mass migrations of people. I love that topic and since it overlaps with the Bible, I have read the Bible and found the prophecies. They are most accurate.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

The Bible is there for all to read.

So is Harry Potter. Much more interesting too.

 

[Avatar4321]

I sometimes find it amusing how some people seem to think archaelogy can disprove or prove what is or isnt true.

I mean achaelogy proves that the location of much of the places in Homer's Illiad and Oddessy are real. Yet, no one proclaims that because the locations are there that the story actually happened.

We have pretty concrete evidence that New York City exists. But we don't presume the Xmen and Spiderman or the Avengers actually fight crime there. Should our descendents conclude that simply because they find references to it in the forementioned comic books and realize that New York City is a real place? The idea is absurd.

Archaelogy can't prove or disprove the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's an imperfect science at best that relies heavily on guess work and finding clues which aren't very prevelant anywhere.

Science cannot prove or disprove matters of the Spirit because we don't have instruments that can measure them. My belief in the Bible and other scriptures has not come from science or any sort of blind belief. It's come from personal experience with the Holy Spirit illuminating my mind and showing me things I never even considered before.

I think it's dangerous to rely on the flesh when we are to rely on the Spirit. Experience tells me that the Spirit is never wrong, but science, the wisdom of man, and often our own minds are wrong quite a bit.

I think it's necessary for believers to understand what the Bible is and what it is not before they can convince any nonbelievers what it is.

It is not all there is or ever will be. It is not written by the Hand of God, but by inspired by imperfect men and prone to the corruption any man is given. It is one of the tools, not the only one, that God has given us to lead us to Him. And it doesn't have to be perfect to lead us to a perfect Father in Heaven or to Testify to the truth of Jesus Christ. The Spirit will teach us how to discern truth from fifction.

I fear that too many worship the Bible rather than the God who inspired it. They have more faith in it, than in the God that created them. Remember, the Pharisees put faith in the scriptures, and they missed the Son of God before their very eyes.

 

[jillian]

The Bible is there for all to read.

whose bible? yours or mine?

 

[rdean]

I. Am. Not. Christian.

Even if you are right, which you are not, Neuberth.

WTF do YOU plan to do when you discover you were wrong all this time?

Quite frankly, I would never be wrong. I am just telling people what the Bible says. Indeed, it could have errors in it. I have not found any and I have been looking for a long long time. Perhaps you need to know what the Bible is to me and other professors of history.

The Bible is (at the very least) just the collective writings of people who were earnestly seeking after God. It includes the traditional allegorical Creation story that I see as obviously not historical, but an excellent description of the relationship of mankind to God. It best explains why we need God. Without God, society usually decays and evil abounds.

After that, the Bible tells the history of the Jewish people as they remembered it in oral tradition passed on from generation to generation. I suppose there is some way that it could be in error, but all archeological evidence found to date substantiates the Jewish history. There is no refutation from archeology.

After that there are books of songs and poetry. The songs and poetry are beautiful when sung or read in Hebrew. Some of them are pretty darn good as translated into King James English. I am aware that in the translation some of the original intent could have been lost, so I usually look at multiple translations and even paraphrases if I am looking for content, but for the most part I like the linguistic art of those wonderful songs and poems just because they were and are so beautiful and I leave it at that.

THEN COMES THE IMPORTANT PART, THE PROPHECY BOOKS! They start in the Old Testament and continue on through the Revelation of John. In the Middle of the Prophecy books are the New Testament historical books. They show many of the fullfilled Prophecies, so are just where they need to be.

I look at the prophecies and see that they are coming true one after another exactly as predicted. That, to me, is very, very impressive. THE ONLY THINGS THAT HAVE NOT COME TRUE TO DATE ARE THE PROPHECIES FOR THE LAST DAYS. The Last Days are supposed to be the last seven years of the Earth and are also referred to as the Tribulation. Are we in the Last Days? I think so, but there is no way of knowing until one of the prophecies for the Last Days comes true. We could be over three years into the Last Days before we see that happen. You have to know what the prophecies for the last days are. Essentially, I am just waiting and looking, with both fear and anticipation. I believe in a Middle of the Tribulation rapture. Most Christians disagree with me, with the majority of them believing in a Pre Tribulation Rapture.

Still, there is always the possibility that you could be correct and all of this is just foolishness.

If you disagree with what it says in the Bible, and you are right, more power to you.

Of course, if you are wrong, the Bible says you will die in your sins and suffer eternal separation from God and the Family of God.

That, as best I can tell, is what Hell is, Eternal Separation. The Bible says very little about the Hell that all nonbelievers will be sent to after the Last Judgment. Remember that Hell is supposed to be an entirely different place than the place (Sheol) where souls wait prior to the Last Judgment.

The Bible describes the Last Judgment Hell as Outer Darkness. So, as best I can tell, if you die and have refused to receive God into your life, you are banished from the presence of God for all eternity and you soul is sent to a place to be alone for all eternity in total absence of light. Just you and your thoughts for all eternity, no fellowship, no pot, no alcohol, NOTHING!

IF that were me, I'd find the ON - OFF switch and turn OFF my thought process. Hopefully there is one somewhere on the soul.

You mean like "Genesis" and "Noah's Ark"?

The Bible is made up of letters and stories written over a thousand years by a lot of different people. Plenty in it is bogus.

 

[Neubarth]

The Bible is there for all to read.

So is Harry Potter. Much more interesting too.

If Harry Potter is your salvation, by all means worship him. I like Harry Potter for entertainment value, but I Love the Bible for for its songs, poetry and history of the Middle East (because I am a historian) and Prophecy (because while reading the Bible I asked God into my life.). Had I not seen the fantastic fulfillment of prophecy in the Bible, I probably would still be an agnostic which I was for the first quarter of a century of my life.

Read it for entertainment value and at the very least, you will find some fantastic poetry. I am a firm believer that people who appreciate poetry are the nicest people on the planet. I have been a poet all of my life.

 

[Neubarth]

You mean like "Genesis" and "Noah's Ark"?

The Bible is made up of letters and stories written over a thousand years by a lot of different people. Plenty in it is bogus.

EXACTLY! The Creation Story is allegory to me. That is exactly what I said above. The value that I find in it is the Allegory that it brings to the reader. Remember the Creation story is common to a great many cultures in the Middle East. Not one of them that I know of takes it literally. People who take things literally usually are narrow minded and annoying.

Consider, I am divorced and remarried. People of faith who are literalists will tell me that I am a Bigamist because I did not ask their Church to divorce me because of my first wife's infidelity. To them, I am a bigamist.

IF they want to believe that, I am fine with that. I add it to my laurels. Before I became a Christian I was an aggressive womanizer (adulterer). So to those religious people who are literalists, I usually tell them up front that I am a massive adulterer and a bigamist who has been forgiven by my God, but not their god and let them think about it for as long as they want.

I define being a Christian as somebody "who admits that they have done wrong, who has asked God to forgive those wrongs and then asked God to come into their lives and guide them." That was easy for me to do, because I was a sailor before starting to read the Bible for the history and poetry and then the prophecy. When I got to the part that said, "For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God." I said, "Hell ya, that is me!" and read on and on and on.

Eventually, I understood that there was a way that God set up to deal with all of those wrongs in my life. He does not ask you to be perfect before coming to Him. He just asks that you acknowledge your wrong and ask Him to deal with it instead of you trying to do it on your own.

 

[JoLouis]

Neuby, you like the bible for its history? So you believe Noah had a boat with 2 of every single animal on this planet on it with enough food for all of them to eat for 40 days? And he did that with what, a dozen people?

 

[Luissa]

I sometimes find it amusing how some people seem to think archaelogy can disprove or prove what is or isnt true.

I mean achaelogy proves that the location of much of the places in Homer's Illiad and Oddessy are real. Yet, no one proclaims that because the locations are there that the story actually happened.

We have pretty concrete evidence that New York City exists. But we don't presume the Xmen and Spiderman or the Avengers actually fight crime there. Should our descendents conclude that simply because they find references to it in the forementioned comic books and realize that New York City is a real place? The idea is absurd.

Archaelogy can't prove or disprove the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's an imperfect science at best that relies heavily on guess work and finding clues which aren't very prevelant anywhere.

Science cannot prove or disprove matters of the Spirit because we don't have instruments that can measure them. My belief in the Bible and other scriptures has not come from science or any sort of blind belief. It's come from personal experience with the Holy Spirit illuminating my mind and showing me things I never even considered before.

I think it's dangerous to rely on the flesh when we are to rely on the Spirit. Experience tells me that the Spirit is never wrong, but science, the wisdom of man, and often our own minds are wrong quite a bit.

I think it's necessary for believers to understand what the Bible is and what it is not before they can convince any nonbelievers what it is.

It is not all there is or ever will be. It is not written by the Hand of God, but by inspired by imperfect men and prone to the corruption any man is given. It is one of the tools, not the only one, that God has given us to lead us to Him. And it doesn't have to be perfect to lead us to a perfect Father in Heaven or to Testify to the truth of Jesus Christ. The Spirit will teach us how to discern truth from fifction.

I fear that too many worship the Bible rather than the God who inspired it. They have more faith in it, than in the God that created them. Remember, the Pharisees put faith in the scriptures, and they missed the Son of God before their very eyes.

The best point you made, is the fact it was written by imperfect MEN.
I might be a christian today if it wasn't for the bible. I remember when I was in high school I started going to church again on a regular basis, and I started reading the bible again. I will not follow anything that is so oppressive towards women.

 

[Neubarth]

Neuby, you like the bible for its history? So you believe Noah had a boat with 2 of every single animal on this planet on it with enough food for all of them to eat for 40 days? And he did that with what, a dozen people?

You obviously are very stupid and do not have the capacity to read.

 

[Neubarth]

I sometimes find it amusing how some people seem to think archaelogy can disprove or prove what is or isnt true.

I mean achaelogy proves that the location of much of the places in Homer's Illiad and Oddessy are real. Yet, no one proclaims that because the locations are there that the story actually happened.

We have pretty concrete evidence that New York City exists. But we don't presume the Xmen and Spiderman or the Avengers actually fight crime there. Should our descendents conclude that simply because they find references to it in the forementioned comic books and realize that New York City is a real place? The idea is absurd.

Archaelogy can't prove or disprove the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's an imperfect science at best that relies heavily on guess work and finding clues which aren't very prevelant anywhere.

Science cannot prove or disprove matters of the Spirit because we don't have instruments that can measure them. My belief in the Bible and other scriptures has not come from science or any sort of blind belief. It's come from personal experience with the Holy Spirit illuminating my mind and showing me things I never even considered before.

I think it's dangerous to rely on the flesh when we are to rely on the Spirit. Experience tells me that the Spirit is never wrong, but science, the wisdom of man, and often our own minds are wrong quite a bit.

I think it's necessary for believers to understand what the Bible is and what it is not before they can convince any nonbelievers what it is.

It is not all there is or ever will be. It is not written by the Hand of God, but by inspired by imperfect men and prone to the corruption any man is given. It is one of the tools, not the only one, that God has given us to lead us to Him. And it doesn't have to be perfect to lead us to a perfect Father in Heaven or to Testify to the truth of Jesus Christ. The Spirit will teach us how to discern truth from fifction.

I fear that too many worship the Bible rather than the God who inspired it. They have more faith in it, than in the God that created them. Remember, the Pharisees put faith in the scriptures, and they missed the Son of God before their very eyes.

The best point you made, is the fact it was written by imperfect MEN.
I might be a christian today if it wasn't for the bible. I remember when I was in high school I started going to church again on a regular basis, and I started reading the bible again. I will not follow anything that is so oppressive towards women.

You are mixing the "culture of the people" into the "simple understanding of God" that the Bible has in it. If I had to accept the ancient culture along with the simplicity of asking God for guidance in my life, I never would have asked for that guidance.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that to "find God" you have to accept the culture of the Egyptians, or Caanites, or Jews or Moabites. Their culture was their culture back then and should have no influence on you unless you are one of those literalists that I rag about all of the time.

 

[rdean]

You mean like "Genesis" and "Noah's Ark"?

The Bible is made up of letters and stories written over a thousand years by a lot of different people. Plenty in it is bogus.

EXACTLY! The Creation Story is allegory to me. That is exactly what I said above. The value that I find in it is the Allegory that it brings to the reader. Remember the Creation story is common to a great many cultures in the Middle East. Not one of them that I know of takes it literally. People who take things literally usually are narrow minded and annoying.

Consider, I am divorced and remarried. People of faith who are literalists will tell me that I am a Bigamist because I did not ask their Church to divorce me because of my first wife's infidelity. To them, I am a bigamist.

IF they want to believe that, I am fine with that. I add it to my laurels. Before I became a Christian I was an aggressive womanizer (adulterer). So to those religious people who are literalists, I usually tell them up front that I am a massive adulterer and a bigamist who has been forgiven by my God, but not their god and let them think about it for as long as they want.

I define being a Christian as somebody "who admits that they have done wrong, who has asked God to forgive those wrongs and then asked God to come into their lives and guide them." That was easy for me to do, because I was a sailor before starting to read the Bible for the history and poetry and then the prophecy. When I got to the part that said, "For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God." I said, "Hell ya, that is me!" and read on and on and on.

Eventually, I understood that there was a way that God set up to deal with all of those wrongs in my life. He does not ask you to be perfect before coming to Him. He just asks that you acknowledge your wrong and ask Him to deal with it instead of you trying to do it on your own.

As long as people only want to use mystical beliefs to give their own lives "value", then I'm fine with that. But when they want to use mystical beliefs as the "reason" for discrimination and hate, then we have a problem.

Religion is simply something "made up". It's not real. So to use that as a cudgel to batter someone who is real simply for "existing" is wrong.

To insist you can't have morals and values without magical beliefs is so insulting. And that sums up by problem with those who have "occult" beliefs.

 

[Neubarth]

The Bible is there for all to read.

whose bible? yours or mine?

For some just the Old Testament.

For me, as I have stated before, Both the Old and New Testament are fine.

The New Testament has history and Prophecy, just as the Old Testament. It is most interesting to read from a historical standpoint and for the new prophecy and the fulfillment of old prophecy. There was constant reaffirmation that Israel would be born again in the Later Days. Gosh, if it did not happen! Being a Super Jew, as I am, I love both the old and new testaments. Fantastic reading!

You really should try reading Jillian. It is a great form of self education.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

We have pretty concrete evidence that New York City exists. But we don't presume the Xmen and Spiderman or the Avengers actually fight crime there.

Wait, what now? I think you are mistaken.

Science cannot prove or disprove matters of the Spirit because we don't have instruments that can measure them.

I don't know. It kind of can. At the very least, controlled studies have shown prayer to not work in regards to any measurable outcome. At all.

I like Harry Potter for entertainment value

Why else would you read?

but I Love the Bible for for its songs, poetry and history

Have you tried pandora, Donne, and history books, respectively?

and Prophecy

Try the local wiccan store and their prophecy books.

Read it for entertainment value and at the very least, you will find some fantastic poetry.

You mean, poetry different from its original language? k.

Consider, I am divorced and remarried. People of faith who are literalists will tell me that I am a Bigamist because I did not ask their Church to divorce me because of my first wife's infidelity. To them, I am a bigamist.

I see. How can I too accept the bible and cherry pick which of the teachings I think are valid and ignore everything I don't like?

 

[Neubarth]

Have you tried pandora, Donne, and history books, respectively?

Try the local wiccan store and their prophecy books.

Read it for entertainment value and at the very least, you will find some fantastic poetry.

You mean, poetry different from its original language? k.

Consider, I am divorced and remarried. People of faith who are literalists will tell me that I am a Bigamist because I did not ask their Church to divorce me because of my first wife's infidelity. To them, I am a bigamist.

I see. How can I too accept the bible and cherry pick which of the teachings I think are valid and ignore everything I don't like?

You come across as really really stupid with your posts. I can read the Bible in five languages. As I posted, I can read it in the original Hebrew.

You may cherry pick if you want. There is absolutely no need to do so. The literalists want you to adopt the culture of the ancients with the One Understanding that runs through the Bible. I prefer to stick with the One Understanding that I have repeatedly explained. The ancient Jews repeated that one understanding 77 times in the Old Testament and the New Testament mentions it even more times. There is no need to adopt the culture of the past unless you are living in the past.

Now, you will probably say that you do not understand what the One Understanding is. Go back and read and see if you can find it. It is very very simple, and it does not say you have to adopt the ancient culture to accept it.