For Jillian

[Charles_Main]

Originally posted by Charles Main
yeah Sanata Ana Was a very nice peaceful man.

lol

Shut the fuck up and get over it, Or raise an army and take it back.

When you come into a Message Board and openly state that America has every right to "enforce her laws, repatriate illegal Mexicans, deny them legal entry, take away their jobs, take away their housing, etc, etc, etc..." you've pretty much "got over it" already.

All I'm saying is that the brutal, frightening climate of demonisation of illegal Mexicans that we see in America today should be replaced by an attitude of respect towards the people who once called the American Southwest their historical homeland.

I respect Mexican Americans bud, I do not respect it when they fail to respect the laws of this nation. Besides it is not just Mexicans. We have illegals from nearly every Latin American Nation coming across.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If you actually knew any history you would know that the Spanish tried to exterminate native Indians. You would know that in Texas when the Region revolted against the Despot Santa Anna they flew the Mexican Flag with 1824 on it, the date of the Constitution. You would know that the Spanish/Mexicans in Texas JOINED, lead and fought in the Rebel AGAINST Santa Anna. You would know that when the decision was made to declare a Republican the local Spanish/Mexicans agreed it was for the best.

Then 10 years later you would know that Mexico declared war on the US. The United States wanted no war with Mexico. The US was not prepared for war. In fact Europeans believed that the Mexican Army would make short work of the American Army.

OK, the stupid hour is over, RGS. Go read history. Good gosh almighty, are you going senile?

1. Elements of the Spanish, Mexican, and American cultures tried to eliminate the Indians.

2. Some Tejanos (not a majority) joined the Texicans (most of them illegal immigrants, Dixiebacks who swam the Sabine and Red Rivers to come to Mexican Tejas) supported the Revolution.

3. The Texicans who took San Antonio late in the fall of 1835 raped, plundered, and terrorized its Tejano population, despite Bowie's pleas to the contrary.

4. Polk planned a war with Mexico, if necessary, in order to protect Texas and occupy the ports of California for trade with China.

5. Congress declared war on Mexico, not the other way.

6. Yes, Europe thought Mexico would kick our ass.

 

[Twofox]

Originally posted by Si Modo
Where's my taco?

Si Modo, listen:

The only thing that really bothered me in the OP was the lack of respect for illegal Mexicans:

"millions of Mexicans"... "sneaking"

I believe everytime Americans refer to illegal Mexicans they should do it in a respectful manner as if they were almost ashamed, almost embarrassed to demand the deportation of a national who rightfully calls the American Southwest a part of their homeland that was lost by BRUTE FORCE.

As if they were almost asking Mexico's forgiveness for all the abuse inflicted by their country on the Aztec nation in the 19th century.

By all means, enforce your laws, repatriate illegal Mexicans, deny them legal entry at border crossings.

BUT DO IT WITH RESPECT.

Do it on your knees.

Jose,

I repsectfully invite you to piss off. Illegal immigration is a major issue in my country, and my vote goes towards stopping it. They increase crime, lower wages and suck up social services, all the while sending money back to Mejico which is that countries 3rd largest cash crop. When mejicans show some repect for the land that America paid for then I'll show some respect in return. At this point in time the only conversation I want to hear about illegals is how soon are they going home. Send the chilli chompers home.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Twofox, the two great parties empower illegal immigration.

Go convince the party leaders something must be done.

Nothing you or I or the muffin man can say has any impact, right?

 

[José]

Originally posted by JakeStarkey
OK, the stupid hour is over, RGS. Go read history. Good gosh almighty, are you going senile?

1. Elements of the Spanish, Mexican, and American cultures tried to eliminate the Indians.

2. Some Tejanos (not a majority) joined the Texicans (most of them illegal immigrants, Dixiebacks who swam the Sabine and Red Rivers to come to Mexican Tejas) supported the Revolution.

3. The Texicans who took San Antonio late in the fall of 1835 raped, plundered, and terrorized its Tejano population, despite Bowie's pleas to the contrary.

4. Polk planned a war with Mexico, if necessary, in order to protect Texas and occupy the ports of California for trade with China.

5. Congress declared war on Mexico, not the other way.

6. Yes, Europe thought Mexico would kick our ass.

Excellent post, Jake!! Couldn't have said it better myself!!

Just a small addendum:

1 - The Texan landgrab was ENTIRELY conceived and carried out by the legal and illegal american immigrants who were fully in charge of the whole outrage. Tejanos had absolutely no say in the matter regardless of their personal opinions.

2 - Some Tejanos supported the rebellion against the federal government, as you rightly pointed out, but they were much more ambivalent regarding secession.

Anglos rebelled with a clear desire to secede from Mexico and join the US at a later date while Tejanos rebelled solely against Santa Anna and were much more hesitant if not vehemently opposed to outright secession.

The portrayal of Juan Seguin and the rest of the tejano leadership as staunch supporters of secession from Mexico amounts to a shameless attempt to rape the history of the American Southwest carried out by super patriotic american clowns THINLY DISGUISED AS SERIOUS HISTORIANS.

 

[José]

OK, I fully understood the message Chuck, BF and Twofox tried to convey and I am sympathetic to it.

But I still think that an american citizen is absolutely free to demand the mass deportation of illegal Koreans, Chinese, Brazilians, Cubans etc, etc, etc... in the harshest terms one can imagine without any guilt.

But when it comes to illegal Mexicans living in Cali, Texas, etc... everytime an american citizen calls for their deportation in blunt terms a certain feeling of self-recrimination, of unease, of malaise, a slight feeling of remorse would be definitely appropriate.

 

[Twofox]

But when it comes to illegal Mexicans living in Cali, Texas, etc... everytime an american citizen calls for their deportation in blunt terms a certain feeling of self-recrimination, of unease, of malaise, a slight feeling of remorse would be definitely appropriate.

Why? Should I feel ashamed in calling for a shoplifter to be punished for breaking the law?

How's this then? "I am truly sorry, but since you are in the USA illegally, please get the fuck out" I mean what do you want to hear? This issue has been simmering for a long time and now is getting ready to boil over. Calling for calmer heads is one thing, but asking us to kiss the ass of the illegals due to cultural concerns is kinda far out there.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Twofox, you are more likely to be deported than 12mm illegal aliens. Stop yammering and come up with a workable solution.

 

[Charles_Main]

OK, I fully understood the message Chuck, BF and Twofox tried to convey and I am sympathetic to it.

But I still think that an american citizen is absolutely free to demand the mass deportation of illegal Koreans, Chinese, Brazilians, Cubans etc, etc, etc... in the harshest terms one can imagine without any guilt.

But when it comes to illegal Mexicans living in Cali, Texas, etc... everytime an american citizen calls for their deportation in blunt terms a certain feeling of self-recrimination, of unease, of malaise, a slight feeling of remorse would be definitely appropriate.

Well I am not even calling for them to be Deported. Unless they have a Felony Record. The rest I would give Amnesty, and a path to citizenship over 5 years. However I will not support any of that. Unless and until we fully secure all our borders and get a much better grip on who comes in and out. I will not accept one amnesty after another with no border security.

I am also open to looking at the numbers we allow to enter legally each year, and from where, and adjusting as needed. Provided we keep a proper mix of Educated vs Uneducated, and poor vs Not. All types of people from all over the world want to come here. We need all sorts, not just the Lesser educated and poor people.

That is why I actually like the Senators Proposal about service or college for citizenship for some of the illegals here now. From any place of origin. Because we can not sustain a constant flow of only poor uneducated People. So encouraging those who are here illegal to serve or go to college to finally get citizenship seems rather logical to me.

 

[José]

So true, Chuck and Jake.

America has more than enough material means and in my opinion, the right to carry out mass deportations of illegal Mexicans living in America for a decade or two but the necessary social climate in the American society and the political will among its political leaders is simply not there.

We live in a day and age where even duck hunt is considered genocide and even deportation of tourists is ethnic cleasing : )

 

[Twofox]

Twofox, you are more likely to be deported than 12mm illegal aliens. Stop yammering and come up with a workable solution.

Here's one.

1. Close the borders. Build the fence and put troops there. When AZ Gov Napolitano did it, traffic slowed way down.

2. Allow said troops to fire back at the smugglers, and clean out the observation posts that they man.

3. Enforce the laws. Punish businesses that hire illegals and actually deport the ones that are caught.

4. By that point the rest will self deport, or actually work at becoming citizens.

I live in AZ, about 75 miles from the border. We've been suggesting these things for such a long time that we forget that the rest of the country hasn't thought about it yet.

 

[Bullfighter]

Twofox, you are more likely to be deported than 12mm illegal aliens. Stop yammering and come up with a workable solution.

Here's one.

1. Close the borders. Build the fence and put troops there. When AZ Gov Napolitano did it, traffic slowed way down.

2. Allow said troops to fire back at the smugglers, and clean out the observation posts that they man.

3. Enforce the laws. Punish businesses that hire illegals and actually deport the ones that are caught.

4. By that point the rest will self deport, or actually work at becoming citizens.

I live in AZ, about 75 miles from the border. We've been suggesting these things for such a long time that we forget that the rest of the country hasn't thought about it yet.

Why not just treat the government of Mexico as the enemy of the US which it is. Cut off all funding and DEMAND that they start to pay the bills that Mexican tourists have run up in the US.

That is just for a start.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Twofox, you are more likely to be deported than 12mm illegal aliens. Stop yammering and come up with a workable solution.

Here's one.

1. Close the borders. Build the fence and put troops there. When AZ Gov Napolitano did it, traffic slowed way down.

2. Allow said troops to fire back at the smugglers, and clean out the observation posts that they man.

3. Enforce the laws. Punish businesses that hire illegals and actually deport the ones that are caught.

4. By that point the rest will self deport, or actually work at becoming citizens.

I live in AZ, about 75 miles from the border. We've been suggesting these things for such a long time that we forget that the rest of the country hasn't thought about it yet.

Good. Also add immigration reform and a guest worker program.

 

[Nate]

Twofox, you are more likely to be deported than 12mm illegal aliens. Stop yammering and come up with a workable solution.

Here's one.

1. Close the borders. Build the fence and put troops there. When AZ Gov Napolitano did it, traffic slowed way down.

2. Allow said troops to fire back at the smugglers, and clean out the observation posts that they man.

3. Enforce the laws. Punish businesses that hire illegals and actually deport the ones that are caught.

4. By that point the rest will self deport, or actually work at becoming citizens.

I live in AZ, about 75 miles from the border. We've been suggesting these things for such a long time that we forget that the rest of the country hasn't thought about it yet.

Great ideas Twofox but IMO still not going to work...

1. You build a bigger fence they'll just go around it;

On Friday, 22 illegal immigrants were arrested as they tried to come ashore from a boat at Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Base. Border Patrol agents who were on patrol spotted a panga boat, commonly used in Mexico for fishing, about 3:30 a.m. approaching the shore. The passengers were arrested by the agents and Oceanside Harbor Police officers.

17 illegal immigrants arrested after boat dropoff - SignOnSanDiego.com

2. If the border patrol is given orders to shoot it will start a firefight with the Mexican "Military." From the sound of it the Cartels have already infiltrated Mexico's armed forces;

Armed men in Mexican military uniforms have illegally crossed into the United States to provide cover for drug smugglers, and have fired upon U.S. Border Patrol agents on several occasions, a congressional panel was told Tuesday.

Border Patrol Union President T.J. Bonner detailed three incidents since 2000 in which U.S. agents were chased and fired upon by what he characterized as Mexican soldiers operating inside U.S. borders. Bonner testified before the House Homeland Security Investigations Subcommittee on Tuesday.

Mexican military incursions into U.S. inflame border situation - U.S. news - Security - msnbc.com

3. & 4. Can't argue with that!!

I've come to the conclusion that the only way to stop this invasion is to stop their corrupt government, destroy the Cartels, and abolish NAFTA... These illegals have nothing to go back to.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Twofox, you are more likely to be deported than 12mm illegal aliens. Stop yammering and come up with a workable solution.

Here's one.

1. Close the borders. Build the fence and put troops there. When AZ Gov Napolitano did it, traffic slowed way down.

2. Allow said troops to fire back at the smugglers, and clean out the observation posts that they man.

3. Enforce the laws. Punish businesses that hire illegals and actually deport the ones that are caught.

4. By that point the rest will self deport, or actually work at becoming citizens.

I live in AZ, about 75 miles from the border. We've been suggesting these things for such a long time that we forget that the rest of the country hasn't thought about it yet.

Great ideas Twofox but IMO still not going to work...

1. You build a bigger fence they'll just go around it;

On Friday, 22 illegal immigrants were arrested as they tried to come ashore from a boat at Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Base. Border Patrol agents who were on patrol spotted a panga boat, commonly used in Mexico for fishing, about 3:30 a.m. approaching the shore. The passengers were arrested by the agents and Oceanside Harbor Police officers.

17 illegal immigrants arrested after boat dropoff - SignOnSanDiego.com

2. If the border patrol is given orders to shoot it will start a firefight with the Mexican "Military." From the sound of it the Cartels have already infiltrated Mexico's armed forces;

Armed men in Mexican military uniforms have illegally crossed into the United States to provide cover for drug smugglers, and have fired upon U.S. Border Patrol agents on several occasions, a congressional panel was told Tuesday.

Border Patrol Union President T.J. Bonner detailed three incidents since 2000 in which U.S. agents were chased and fired upon by what he characterized as Mexican soldiers operating inside U.S. borders. Bonner testified before the House Homeland Security Investigations Subcommittee on Tuesday.

Mexican military incursions into U.S. inflame border situation - U.S. news - Security - msnbc.com

3. & 4. Can't argue with that!!

I've come to the conclusion that the only way to stop this invasion is to stop their corrupt government, destroy the Cartels, and abolish NAFTA... These illegals have nothing to go back to.

That won't happen. Simply legalize, regulate, and tax narcotics. Tens of thousands will live, billions will be collected, and folks can live their lives as they wish.

 

[Twofox]

Twofox, you are more likely to be deported than 12mm illegal aliens. Stop yammering and come up with a workable solution.

Here's one.

1. Close the borders. Build the fence and put troops there. When AZ Gov Napolitano did it, traffic slowed way down.

2. Allow said troops to fire back at the smugglers, and clean out the observation posts that they man.

3. Enforce the laws. Punish businesses that hire illegals and actually deport the ones that are caught.

4. By that point the rest will self deport, or actually work at becoming citizens.

I live in AZ, about 75 miles from the border. We've been suggesting these things for such a long time that we forget that the rest of the country hasn't thought about it yet.

Great ideas Twofox but IMO still not going to work...

1. You build a bigger fence they'll just go around it;

On Friday, 22 illegal immigrants were arrested as they tried to come ashore from a boat at Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Base. Border Patrol agents who were on patrol spotted a panga boat, commonly used in Mexico for fishing, about 3:30 a.m. approaching the shore. The passengers were arrested by the agents and Oceanside Harbor Police officers.

17 illegal immigrants arrested after boat dropoff - SignOnSanDiego.com

2. If the border patrol is given orders to shoot it will start a firefight with the Mexican "Military." From the sound of it the Cartels have already infiltrated Mexico's armed forces;

Armed men in Mexican military uniforms have illegally crossed into the United States to provide cover for drug smugglers, and have fired upon U.S. Border Patrol agents on several occasions, a congressional panel was told Tuesday.

Border Patrol Union President T.J. Bonner detailed three incidents since 2000 in which U.S. agents were chased and fired upon by what he characterized as Mexican soldiers operating inside U.S. borders. Bonner testified before the House Homeland Security Investigations Subcommittee on Tuesday.

Mexican military incursions into U.S. inflame border situation - U.S. news - Security - msnbc.com

3. & 4. Can't argue with that!!

I've come to the conclusion that the only way to stop this invasion is to stop their corrupt government, destroy the Cartels, and abolish NAFTA... These illegals have nothing to go back to.

1. Building a fence will limit the options to get across, thus allowing easier enforcement.
2. The cartels have outposts in our country, those need to be cleaned out. As for starting a firefight, yes I am completely aware of that. That goes with the territory.

5+... Yes the Legal Immigration policies need to be streamlined, but not to the point where it's super easy to become a citizen. You should still have to work for it, IE prove that you really want it.

Guest worker programs and visas are easily overstayed. Once here, just disappear into the population. Have to be able to ID everyone. We already have that in place with drivers licenses, so we'd have add:

7. Clean up fake ID's, etc.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Since Jillian has no idea how long it takes to become a US citizen once legally IN the Country I am providing this service.

USCIS - Citizenship Through Naturalization

n most cases, an applicant for naturalization must be a permanent resident (green card holder) before filing. Except for certain U.S. military members and their dependents, naturalization can only be granted in the United States.

You May Qualify for Naturalization if:

* You have been a permanent resident for at least 5 years and meet all other eligibility requirements. See the “General Path to Naturalization” link under “Citizenship by Naturalization” to the left.
* You have been a permanent resident for 3 years or more and meet all eligibility requirements to file as a spouse of a U.S. citizen. See the “Spouses of U.S. Citizens” link under “Citizenship by Naturalization” to the left.
* You have qualifying service in the U.S. armed forces and meet all other eligibility requirements. See the “Information for Members of the Military and Their Families” link to the right.
* Your child may qualify for naturalization if you are a U.S. citizen, the child was born outside the U.S., the child is currently residing outside the U.S., and all other eligibility requirements are met.

Notice once you have a green card it is 5 years to taking the citizenship test for naturalization.

So unless the plan is to amnesty the millions of Mexicans and deny them a green card they can become citizens in just 5 years.

Meanwhile MY wife's family must wait YEARS just to immigrate to this Country from the Philippines. Maybe with amnesty on the way I should look into sneaking them into the Country for amnesty.

You're qualified to take the test in five years...then you go on the waiting list behind everyone else...in reality it takes much, much longer to become a citizen.

Another dumb ass moron, once you take the test and pass it you become a citizen with in 6 months.